Last edited: Thursday, May 04, 2006 at 9:42:31 AM

Bubblegunners on the RISE!!!

I think there 2 scales of lag. The first is during casual pick-up games, the second is during a league game.

Take a given situation with moderate lag. Say you give it an "acceptable degree of lag" rating during a pick-up game. That exact same situation would receive a "ridiculous lag" rating during a PSL game.

The reason? The increased level of focus, intensity and competition by all the participants. Not to mention that a permanent record of the scores will be posted on the internet for all time.

lol pretty dramatic! Rather... posted on the internet until the URL changes...

I agree there are 2 types of lag (and players). One is ping lag (or high ping players) and the other server lag (or weak computer/running to many apps while playing). I do not mind ping lag, you can account for that. Like leading a little more when shooting, making sure you give the "tree" a little more while turning. I do not mind high pingers one bit. It may, on some occasions, take awhile for them to "pop", but they do. Then you have the server lag. Like for example, when your totally in the goal ( like you see the goal all around you) and someone comes and steals the scrum from you and turns around scores. Because the server is being pushed and didn't recognize it, on a high ping server they may be able to steal but the server still recognized, just takes more time. The best is when you see someone with 60 ping and they disapear or you just unloaded 3 clips into them and there still skipping to the goal. I remember last season with get some, I hated playing when he did ( he knows I love him personally) he would litterally lag me out around the goal. Ever since he got the mini I havn't noticed it (honestly haven't played too many games with him though). I also found it interesting playing in a game that had a few low ping "laggers" in dashes, they affected the server so much we all went to Roo's. Then when these same poeple came in we saw it happen again. I am begging, please, please, don't play on the same machine and host it does impact the others, even though you may not feel it yourself. Maybe I have played this game to long but I can normally tell within a few minutes when someone is playing/hosting because my tank does not respond the way it should. Addtionally, I hope that for everyones enjoyment that you make sure that your not streaming/playing music or even have your IM on. At the very least for league games. I will not complain about people with 56(k) or weak computers, not everyone can get cable/dsl or afford a new computer. I just ask that others use there heads a bit more and realize that certain things can and do impact others people playing enjoyment. As you can tell I am a little passionate about this subject but as I get more busy with life I find myself with less time playing and I am a little more critcal of the time when I do play. Man I wite alot, hope it makes sense. I wrote this more of a whine than a bitch, hope it comes off that way.

Yep, I heard the whine. A very respectible whine too.

I know there are innumerable technical aspects to this. All I'm saying is that one's state of mind directly affects one's perception of how enjoyable a game is . This just adds another layer of difficulty in any kind of objective quantitative analysis. :S

I think this means: we need some sophisticated, controlled studies to figure this all out. Just relying on anectodal information is not likely to get us much further than where we are now.

My personal opinion: PSL is the most "controlled" experimental environment we are ever going to get. I would not be opposed to using our "special time" to do some careful experimentation. Maybe after this season we can use the PSL time slot to each week try subtle variations on hosting, maps, locations, all throughout using the same people.

NUTS! Says:

I totally agree. This is true for me as well. We will get there. Let's figure out how to do it.

I disagree.

That said, I'm failing to see the connection. If you're saying that we're so wrapped up in PSL that we make the lag larger than life then get me a nice cool gun with about 50 rounds in it. I'm taking all of us out because we're losers.

To be honest I kinda find that insulting. Pause, not in an I'm bitter or upset way so remove that notion from your head. No offense, really I mean it. Seriously though, if I can't tell the difference between acceptable lag and unplayable lag use the gun on me after I finish off Azazel, TMO, Hugo...

The circumstances of our last three matches were no mirage.

Am I wrong? Please, anyone respond from our last three matches. That's HBM, HAM and BUG. Was it normal lag or WTF lag?

Sorry RX, I'm gonna pummel your hypothesis right quick. XD

I know my Pittsburgh way of saying things makes people think I'm angry. I'm not, I assure you.

@ Rogue, not to worry, I love ya man.

Hmm...
The first time we played the Eds (Eds hosting) I lagged out so bad I wanted to puke. Mag said he was bad too. Blowout first game, miracle tie in the 2nd.

The second time we played Mag hosted but did not play. First game, I felt like a GodFlea and gunned down at will. WE blew out the fist game. Jacques completely froze up I believe. After (Jacques rebooting?) the 2nd game started it completely reversed for me. Couldn't drive or shoot for sour owl-shit.

Hmm... Nuts is noticing something bad with what ever team he plays AGAINST in PSL. Has Jacques played THEN as well?

I'm from the old camp that says a fox smells his own hole first...

I have done a few studies. Posted some of the information. Not sure what you would like. I have a lot of different types of monitoring tools from hard drive, memory and cpu usage. Heck I can even have every packet sent in and out verified and monitored. I have done the research, I have my hypothesis, I will continue to go down that road until I am corrected. I have seen other postings by poeple more technical than I with the same understanding.

So your basically saying that I am a dumbass and I can't control myself like a child. I am not a dumbass or a child, I am insulted by your reasoning. I have played in many games more important than these, not to mention the real world. Yes, I am the first to complain, normally because I have done the research and I understand what is happening and would welcome a discussion.

Yes, Yes I have noticed that on my own servers. West coasters lag horribly as I do on a west coast server. Nothing new, hiding nothing there. I do not host and play on same computer, will the next time, then you may understand. From what I have been told the mid and east coast players (jacque included) have no problems. Baba and LC50 thats a completely different story. I too am from the old camp, I have smelled many times have given proof to the effect, and you?

I guess I am just a whiny stupid son of a bitch and the only who thinks like this. Fine I will sthu and you can continue your accusations of my stupidity. Please let me know when your done and willing to educate me.

Edit:
FYI- Now Im bitching.

Last edited: Saturday, March 18, 2006 at 9:15:27 PM

Not accusing anybody of anything. Only noticing a correlation that, ironically, Nuts and Rogue brought to my attention. That there seems to be pattern of high lag when certain players are in the game sometimes. Anyone is free to take it, or investigate it as they wish.

Now as far as indie games lagging; no doubt, I have experience much lag when the right combination of players join. But like Rx, my personal tolerance of it is also much higher in indie games. I would like to know a bit more about the individuals who enter and I start lagging in the indie games. I've already given ALL my aliases I plan on using during the PSL season, they all pretty much spell out Fleabiscuit. I suggest others be that considerate also. Perhaps we will notice more patterns.

Nuts and Rogue, you two need to chill the F out. Seriously. Nothing posted was personal, but you responded as such. We don't have the resources for teams to devote a CPU to serving. Undoubtedly, servers playing on their own boxes get an advantage, but it's been this way since 2003, and each team gets an equal number of home games. For now, as bravetree has let this ship sail, this is the best we can do.

I am chilled. I'm so chilled the "F" out I'm almost dead.

I can't joke about the notion that we're so smitten with TT that it twists our perception of reality? Come on, that's hilarious. Seriously, what are you talking about?

Flea, we have three teams of two within our team, A,B and C. So the combo is different every week. Jacques normally has a more fluid connection than most. Last week we played on Roo's server, one in which all playing said normally was a goodie for them. The only correlation I've found is in regards to the maps. For instance, when you and another lagged on our server as far as I know you were the only two. So the difference is this, the last three games all tanks have lagged. See what I'm getting at? A tank or two lagging during a game is to be expected, but all lagging is not. That's the point for some reason I can't get across. It keeps reverting back to it's just my state of mind or the home team should have the advantage. Look, I have only one state of mind and that's the fact that my wife's cooking sucks.

Oh, and there's nothing ironic whatsoever about me. XD

Nuts, I don't think he was directing anything personally at yah.

HO and RX you two need to chill the "F" out. Sorry, couldn't resist randomly lumping two posts by two different people together as well. HO, only attempt to scold me like a school girl when I deserve it. I'm aware when I need it and wear the appropriate school girl outfit all day when I've been naughty. Daddy likes it rough.

Maybe I did it a little to personal, mb, I have and always will love Rx. Having nothing but repect for Flea's laggy ass. ;)

@RX
I am sorry, mostly for Pmins during our game. Sadly though that was the most fun I had in the past few games.

@Ho

I love the "it's nothing personal' comment when I was not just replying to RX but also to Flea's, was my name not specifically used? I know that the main reason for your post was to act like the "Hammer" I find it cute. But to basically say that this is the way we have been doing it since 2003 is the type of thinking I am trying to stop. I believe we have enough smart and willing poeple to make it better. I was hoping we could talk and share ideas, hopefully we can.

Hmmm maybe thats my problem. Do people even care?

I think we need lag to make this league competitive. Without lag it is far too easy for me and the other bears to stomp your wimpy arses

B

I care babycakes.
You know it's true.

I have several ideas to focus on specific elements in the maps. I am curreenty making test maps for us to test on.

Some of the test criteria will be:
2 color maps vs 8 color maps (I'm looking for on/off results not subtleties)
solid skies vs textures
backgroubd environment vs no background
fog vs no fog.
number of elements (trees and rocks)

Once we have the best combintaion of map elements, we can move forth to test number of players per game.

That may then lead to specific techniques and criteria for making league maps.

As you know
I like things to be different, but let's see if things can be best for the league, and different. Different and simple?

I'll see if I can get two maps by the end of the day to test with.

Group hug?
I'm still not wearing any pants and I'm going for a ride on my Harley.

Last edited: Sunday, March 19, 2006 at 9:43:36 AM

^ Good man. Thx.

Yes I concur with Rx: somehow too I get the nastiest lag in PSL or so it seems... JINXED! No hammer will fix that... PSL lag is the nastiest, most frustrating thing ever. In regular TS if lag is very bad I'm simply off and I don't care and no one care. If it's mildly lagging it's annoying, but not life-threatening like during PSL. In PSL we have to play through. PSL nano-lag drives me insane. I need all my bullets for PSL (not to kill you, but I'm into Terraforming - that's why so many of my bullets miss).

Could also be related to us playing around 7pm PDT - which is 10pm on the East Coast. I think it's the busiest time on the net, or up ther anyway. Here's a solution: let's play at 7 in the morning! :P

Yikes. See you guys wednesday.

Last edited: Sunday, March 19, 2006 at 11:21:30 AM

@NUTS!: Thanks man. Much appreciated! :)

@Hugo: OMG - you may be on to something! I never thought about it before, but maybe the time of day is a significant factor.

Last edited: Sunday, March 19, 2006 at 11:14:55 AM

Thanks Nappy, good post!

Nuts! I think Tally is saying that we've always done the best we can to make sure the games are fair for everyone. Thats what we've been doing since 2003 - trying.

Can every team offer up a separate machine for hosting games without drastically effecting their roster? Maybe we should be asking that question now.

Just wondering, but if it's mainly cpu usage when hosting and playing then how do you explain the games under those conditions that didn't lag? I too have run diagnostics and sure I can see the possibility of some advantage but the best work around so far has been to allow each team a home game under those conditions if need be.

I'd draw the conclusion that it's a variety of issues. Some that are obviously beyond our control. I'm all for doing whatever we can to help insure a smooth ride. I think everyone is.

Good point Hugo about the peak internet hours not being optimal either.

Would separate east coast and west coast divisions work in the future?

I'm finding a bit of humour in what's being talked about here because this is the same stuff I was whining about more than a year ago when I played on my G4 400. Except now it's the guys with the high end machines that are complaining. Long gone are the days when hosting on your crap box actually made things worse for you.

I've "tested" TT on 5 different Mac platforms and a few different internet connections and I certainly have my share of hypotheses. Judging from what's being said here and my own evidence, my overall suspicion is that, aside from crappy connections and weak computers, perhaps with all the modding, we've actually gone beyond the parameters of the game itself and what it can handle. Joe and Max have stated about its limitations many times. There's a reason that the stock maps have a certain simplicity. And modders might want to pay heed to that - not to mention how playable they are. Is the pipeline of too much data doing a proprietary disservice to us? I think some kind of constructive survey of the (#of) players, their comps, connections, and map elements and parameters would be HIGHLY beneficial.

Oh, and Bravetree chiming in is always appreciated.

Jangy is sober... Must be Sunday. I hear the bells ringing... :P

You're all a bunch of jackasses. Re-read all the crap you all posted. I feel like I am watching a elementary playground fight.

Funny how on Sunday morning (when the beer has worn off) that everyone is "sorry, I love you man" BS shows up. Too flipping funny.

PS. Just wait til the near future when I am back with a legit system to give you all nightmares!! Muaahaha... Hate you all... KKB XD

This thread is dead. Props.

I offered a pantless group hug. I have not heard a better offer as-of-yet. Among other things, the offer still stands.

Last edited: Sunday, March 19, 2006 at 7:08:59 PM

Exactly what I was thinking. Of course, when I was complaining about similar issues, I was labeled a troublemaker and became an outcast to a majority of the regulars in the process. I think its amusing that some of the ol' boys can finally empathize. I cant wait to see how the new BM maps work out during the new league. IMO these issues will be 10x worse in BM than in a Scrum league.

Quote from Hugo:

Could also be related to us playing around 7pm PDT - which is 10pm on the East Coast. I think it's the busiest time on the net, or up ther anyway. Here's a solution: let's play at 7 in the morning!

Quote from RX:

@Hugo: OMG - you may be on to something! I never thought about it before, but maybe the time of day is a significant factor.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh please guy's.... Take the time to read all posts 8(

I wrote about the possibility of troubles caused by that matter a week ago..... All I got was a super constructive reply from my really good friend Napalm and a questionable comment from ass clown army......

Here's the post I wrote... I'm not pretending that I know everything about computers and that it would solve all the problems.

I'm just saying that combined with all the solutions discussed in this thread, it might reduce the effects for all of us who have to live with it

Food for thoughts. :)

---------------------------------------------------------------

My thoughts on lag.....

The recent issues had me thinking about lag and ways to avoid it.... God knows we, the billies, have had our share of trouble with lag issues on game nights ( which we discussed and kept between ourselves ).

One of the things the league could decide to do to have a chance at better ping is changing the time of games. Ok ok take it easy.... I know some of you ( mostly the easterners) will jump at my throat on this one ) but here's why:

I've monitored my connection recently, having some issues, and noticed that between 6:00pm and 8:00pm my connection drops to 50%... Yes 50%. I have a very good connection ( 5.7 mbps down and 680 up) and it drops to 50% mainly because normal people ( that does not include ourselves ) will surf the internet right after dinner.

Having said that, 8pm PT would not be bad for the westerners and since most players in the league (my guess) are not kids 11pm ET is not that outrageous for half an hour of gaming ( we just have to deal this with the wives XD ).

Just my 2c.

B*D

I sometimes forget this game is internet connected. Ya just get on and play, then wonder why the performance is shit.

<<<<Definately taking the Internet for granted.

@ Napalm

I sometimes do that too.....

---------------------------------------------------

Just another thought about what has been suggested over here.... We could test different versions of a map with almost no textures. I wouldn't mind if for the tournament games were played on maps that have a plain colored sky or where the ground was not grass but plain dirt or rock......

Maybe a "Tron" like version of each team's map..... No sky no fog only solid colorless matter...... The terrain would be the same.... Spawn points, goal, arrows at the same spot.

The threes could lose their foliage and even be replaced by sticks or posts.

Who knows maybe the maps could be redone only in grey scales...... Plain generic maps......

During the tournaments game there is no time for sightseeing so who would really care if the maps don't look as good as in every day gaming.

Maybe the maps wizards can chip-in on this one..... Would that imply redoing the maps and objects from the beginning or only changing the colors codes in the terrain files.

Napalm, Dash, Triv ?

On the downside this would need to be done in a way that no one would feel lost playing on those maps versions.......

Maybe this is a stupid idea, if you think it is, just let me know, I'll try to think of something else XD

Again.... Food for thoughts.

I

Last edited: Monday, March 20, 2006 at 8:46:40 AM

Interesting discussion. One that I still puzzle at, though I don't play now. I just want answers to questions at this point.

So in an attempt to solve some of these problems with the many brains here, here are questions that need answers:

When game hosting, there seems to be three problems to solve:

1) The right hardware
2) Appropriate bandwidth
3) Renting vs owning the server

Here's a neutral starting point for discussion that might possibly help. This is an article on game hosting from the evil world of Microsoft. But still, it is a good article:

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/games/expert/durham_gameserver.mspx

This has issues that experienced hosters (like dash) have confronted. Here are quotes from the article. Highlights are mine for emphasis:

1) Bandwidth

You simply cannot achieve low latency and low ping using DSL or cable , nor can you (for the most part) get the needed upload bandwidth that a game server needs. Dedicated bandwidth is a must.

To runservers I use a wireless T1 line that gives me more upload than DSL and cable

Note: If you choose to run a server rather than to rent one, you should always run a dedicated server on one machine and play on the server with a different PC. Dedicated servers don't have to crunch data associated with actually playing on the machine, so they perform better for the players who connect to them.

most ISP do not allow any kind of server running on a customer's private home connection. Basically if you run a server out of your home, you're most likely going against your ISP policies, but ISPs don't seem to monitor this as much due to the [number of] servers running in customers' homes

2) Hardware

As for what kind of hardware you really need , according to Larkin, it depends on the game ...

We're using a single Pentium 4 3-GHz CPU running in hyperthreading mode and a gigabyte of RAM. That configuration seems to be able to handle any game we've hosted to date.

3) Renting vs. Owning the server

downside of renting is a lack of control

Here are my questions and a few answers for you experts:

1) On bandwidth, it appears (from the first quote) that Cable and DSL will never do the trick. Cable and DSL may be good, but they will always present problems.

There is an additional support for this from this quote/point from the article here: Running off DSL or cable means fewer people can join, as DSL is capped at an upload rate and cable fluctuates too much to hold an actual ladder.

Additionally, ISP's appear not to like the game server option and may be screwing with your connectionthough that may not be a major issue.

Please, note the NOTE. Hosting and playing on the same machine is not recommended.

2) On hardware, a fast machine with a lot of RAM is important. But what is hyperthreading mode? How important is it?

In the past, some of the best games that I played were on Sluggy's when he hosted with one machine that had 1.5 gig of RAM or higher and a high-RAM video card.

While this is important, I don't think it is as important as bandwidth!!!!

3) On renting vs owning, it appears renting is always going to be the best option. But the big problem is how to install the mods since companies are not going to let you remotely manipulate the game?

Dash's servers seem to be answering all the problems. However, he still seems to have a bandwidth problem

He's got his own box on a rack and he changes game settings at his convenience.

My suggestion on discussion is that you all consider each question individually! Also, please consider discussing which problem is the highest priority problem.

My conclusion is that bandwidth and dual processors for incoming and outgoing packets are the highest priority.

Cheers! Fun games!

PS: I would play again on an occasional basis if
PPS: I don't know squat about software, etc. I just read.

Last edited: Monday, March 20, 2006 at 9:19:30 AM

I could care less about lag...mebbe its cause what I had been playing with before the new cpu was like playing with tourettes. Playing conditions will change from game to game for whatever reason. Spawn points can be just as infuriating as a laggy server. Bottom line is despite the conditions I just want to shoot you all in the tail and put the scrum in the goal. We need more good natured shit talking here and less debate about playing conditions being good enough.

Nappy
keep your nekkid hugs to yourself

We need more women in TT

Here's an Idea what about looking for a DATA center to host here in Montreal.

Reasons Why!

1 We would split the cost between us and most of US (will pay in US $ so we get an approximate 15% discount)
2. I heard that the speeds on CABLE here are very high compared to USA. I would need more info here to make sure. VIDEOTRON, my cable supplier has the most advanced software and equipment in North America supposedly.

So how about Dash or Blind cide sending me an email on what I have to look for and I will report to them.

PS Canadian Badass is also here in Montreal so we can be 2 to take care of this...

Yah for more Woman!

No to naked hugs from Napalm

Yah to stomping get some all the time! XD

@ get some

You were always a fun person to play against.

Would it be OK if there were less sh*t slinging and instead coherent, intelligent discussion on technical issues?

Narrowing down the degree of connectivity problems to at least a few improvements in server settings and/or bandwidth purchases may make the game -- even on a limited basis -- ten times more fun! Not that you'd get dumped, of course, but it might be an great option if the babes dump you? )

@ Delta

If the cable in Canada works better than cable in US, then the cable in the US still connects poorly, right?

And, if the server is the primary source of the problem, then the fastest cable connection won't make a difference.

In other words, Blind Cide may blindside the problem, but I'd suggest spending your money on a lottery ticket instead.

. 8(

Last edited: Monday, March 20, 2006 at 11:09:27 AM

Man you guys are over looking the details. They are pantless hugs. I am not naked.

I have created a Controlled Map Testing thread.
http://supra.planetthinktanks2.com/archives/comm-thread.asp?thread=12560&forum=10
Please post your thoughts and ideas.

Last edited: Monday, March 20, 2006 at 12:00:44 PM

@ C*N*DI*N B*D*SS
I thought we narrowed your lag down due to the bits being sent in 1's and 0's but your system was expecting Eh's.

Am I too late for the free crack giveaway?

Last edited: Monday, March 20, 2006 at 4:04:04 PM

^Ya, you missed the stoning session.

Stuff I've figured out:

We need at least 245 Kbps of consistent upload bandwidth for an eight player game. Home connections can have problems with the consistency part, whereas data centers are normally very consistent.

TT hosting doesn't need a video card at all and is probably fine with 512 MB of RAM.

Even though hosting TT doesn't take many processor resources (old computers are fine), it seems as if one game per processor is optimum.

@ Delta
I think Chicago would be better than Montreal since most of us would be going through CHI to get to Montreal. I think dash's and the MI server have that neck of the woods covered well already. I'm looking at servers in Dallas or Denver data centers to help bridge the east/west divide.

Quote: I thought we narrowed your lag down due to the bits being sent in 1's and 0's but your system was expecting Eh's.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

??? :'(

Last edited: Monday, March 20, 2006 at 6:57:51 PM

@ JJ
Thats a lot of great information. I did notice that the article was written back in 2004, a lot of has changed since then.
Some thoughts to continue/debate discusion.
Bandwidth: I don't think you need a T1 line to run one server for TT (would be nice though)as BC has pointed out that TT does not use a lot of bandwidth to run one eight player server ( I have come to the sames conlcusions as he). Cable and DSL have both upgraded there systems A LOT. I think a major issue is how well your connection holds to the server, do packets drop? Another thing to consider in the bandwidth section for players and hosters: Which holds a better connection, DSL or Cable? Cable typically has the bigger pipes, but is less constant. I have used both and prefer DSL, cheaper and more constant, but less download and same upload as cable.

RAM/Computer: I agree totally with that statement. I have seen an older computer with more memory feel as good or if not better than a newer machine. As for the Hyperthreading feature if you go to the Intel website they have a great demo. Basically HT allows more "information" to go through faster. You can just imagine the new Macs with dual HT. But I have also read in a few newer articles that AMD's chips (prolly upuntil Intel dual cores), the 64 bits were actually faster and better for gaming. I would love to test this theory I have a coputer that onlly has 512k in memory and with 1GB and HT chip. Wonder if people can really tell the difference between the two.

Renting/owning: I had actually tried to get a few game servers to host TT for us. Since it isn's a popular game a lot of them didn't give me the time of day. I had a few host for us for a bit. Both came back and said that is used to much CPU and memory. The whole "bots play on" thing. Of course someone could always colocate or rent a dedicated server. I think colo is probably the more cost effecient of the two.

Hey, can we move all this exciting discussion on Lag to another server? I need room for the 8 ball.

LC₅₀ s Pregame Preview, brought to you by Magic 8 Ball

Week 10

LCs picks (30 for 54: 56% accuracy):

Eds @ Muts : Its been a while since Tally and Co. Have won a game. The Eds just might oblige them for the hell of it. Stick a fork in us, these teams are done. Game 1: Muts by 2; Game 2: Tie.

Hams @ Billies : Hams have it together again and extend their wins to 5 straight. Hams by 7 and 5.

Seeds @ Locos : Locos, fresh from an 8-ball predicted upset at the hands of the Bugs last week, split games with the Seeds. Those Seeds, they love to split games. Im going to buy them all banana splits. Game 1: Seeds by 3; Game 2: Locos by 9.

Guest prognosticator of the week: Colonel Flannigan Lingus, 69th Trench and Bagpipe Brigade

Eds @ Muts : Aye, the Muts will go down tonight, laddies. Eds by 5 and 1.

Hams @ Billies : No disrespecting your senior officers or youll be doing so many push ups, youll be tasting carpet for days. Hams do the splits for Billy.

Seeds @ Locos : If the Locos win another, I promise to take them all out to eat at my favourite restaurant, the Goateed Clam. Locos by 6; Seeds by 9.

Magic 8 Ball Question of the Week
Will the Locos give us a chance now that they've made their point?

Magic 8 Balls Answer: My sources say no.

We're only what, 13ish points outa first? No forks!
er, 4 teams in the playoffs, right? :)

Certainly, LC. I'll move it to Technical Support.

@ NUTS

Thanks for the response.

I got more information on hyperthreading quickly yesterday. It's a chip thing apparently. You are right that the video card is not required on a server. It's essentially a blind box.

Got responses to your post but will do it in Technical Support, if that's OK.

@ BC

If dash's data center server still lags, then the Dallas and Denver location may not bring the east/west thing together.

Good discussion JJ and all. No need to move it.

LC you doing the 8-Ball or the 17 -R-Ball? ;)

No need to move it but it may be more appropriate in the Controlled Map Testing thread.

Sry about my earlier outburst. JJ and the rest of you are right. If we can improve the overall experience we should. I think I may have just succumbed to general frustration over who knows what. Sometimes im a moody sob.

I stand by my notion that we need more women however. I mean...look how drab it is in here. Some window treatments couldnt hurt....maybe some scented candles? At least something to cover up rogues man-stink.

:P

GS if you'd like we can change our team name to The Bearded Clams. Would that help?

Am I playing in tonights game ladies?