Anyone paying attention to this bullsh%t? Check this out:

A group of far-right Bush allies released an ugly and outrageous ad which claims that John Kerry faked his injuries, betrayed his troops, and "dishonored his country" in Vietnam. The ad features people who say "I served with John Kerry" (although they didn't) and who make numerous provably false accusations about Kerry's war record. It's one of the most vile tactics seen yet in Bush's ferociously negative campaign.

The "Swift Boat" ad is so far beyond the pale that even Senator John McCain, a Bush supporter, spoke out about it, calling it "dishonest and dishonorable." Yet despite Senator McCain's request that President Bush "specifically condemn" the ad, Bush refuses to say anything about it.

It's clear that the ad continues the tradition of Bush campaign dirty tricks. In a recent interview, Senator McCain noted that the ad "was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me" in 2000. McCain was referring to a vicious smear campaign -- which included race-baiting allegations that he had a black child our of wedlock -- run by close Bush allies in 2000. In fact, the same firm that ran some of the anti-McCain ads in 2000 produced the "Swift Boat" ad. And although the group claims to be independent of the Republican party, the group's funding mostly comes from a longtime Bush supporter who gave over $20,000 to his campaigns for Texas governor. Further, today it was announced that one of the subjects in the ad is a member of the Bush-Cheney campaign's veterans steering committee.

The "Swift Boat" campaign is a classical political hit job. But even before the ad went on the air, the Washington Post ran a piece discussing how President Bush is running the most negative presidential campaign in U.S. History. In an article titled "From Bush, Unprecedented Negativity," the Post quotes an expert who says that "there is more attack now on the Bush side against Kerry than you've historically had in the general-election period against either candidate."

Discussing the "Swift Boat" ad, Senator John McCain said, "I deplore this kind of politics." Nebraska Governor Mike Johanns (R) called the ad "trash" and even Pat Buchanan said "not a single charge is substantiated... I think the ad is wrong." But George Bush won't condemn it.

Jim Rassman, a Republican veteran who served under Kerry, recently wrote an opinion piece in the Wall Street Journal. He told the story of how Kerry saved his life. And he concluded with these words on the "Swift Boat" veterans: "[W]hen the noise and fog of their distortions and lies have cleared, a man who volunteered to serve his country, a man who showed up for duty when his country called, a man to whom the United States Navy awarded a Silver Star, a Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts, will stand tall and proud. Ultimately, the American people will judge these Swift Boat Veterans for Bush and their accusations. Americans are tired of smear campaigns against those who volunteered to wear the uniform.

Swift Boat Veterans for Bush should hang their heads in shame.

Sry stinks trying to keep my post around 300.

Some people just have to learn the hard way. If they think bush is doing any good for this country than there is no sense of telling them other wise. Its just like trying to beat your dog to talk, its not going to happen.

True dat vash

And tally: what's wrong with Mr. Graham? Doesn't he love his country? Doesn't he support the troops?

Every1 go to jibjab.com and watch "this land" it makes fun of kerry

Every1 go to jibjab.com and watch "this land" it makes fun of bush and kerry

Lions, scarecrows, and tinmen of the world, UNITE !!!

Lol

Anyone here Bush stumping today?

We're all taking the day off...still seething about "labor day"..... What commie shit heal dreamt that up?

Last edited: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 at 6:36:56 AM

Labor day is a gov holiday but is not mandated

Ok we've got to the point Bush is stupid so
stink,tally, if it would happen that all the rep. Would see the light
and stop holding this country back,
what would you like to fix and how

T raider

Hi all,

Am back. Rained all f'ing weekend. Woohoo.

Don't know where this came from - haven't started catching up yet....but it sounds like Cuba.

Whoo Ho. Caught the little fishies (#1).

But, still, I am not voting for an orator. Yet the Bush-isms are attempts at transfers. But it is the ideas, not the oration, isnt it?

If you want oratory, I like this from John Kerry: http://slate.msn.com/id/2100774/

I believe that the president of the United States should not use the Constitution of the United States for election purposes during an election year. It's a document that we haven't touched certainly with respect to the Bill of Rights in years

Light no matches, a lot of fuel.

@ Stinker

My thought about the article about the book, is that he is probably right. Attribute it to Reagan. After the problems of Johnson and Nixon, and the micro-management-misery of Jimbo Carter, the country was ready for relief. Less is more from government. Many of true democrats escaped to the republican side because it promoted smaller government. There is the big money, country club set in the Party but they are not in the majority. However, the economic thing may split the party if the economy gets worse.

@ Else

Talk about hiss. The liberal media and the Dems do a good job of using cooked statements that they attribute to Bush. For example, http://www.democrats.org/truth/index.html?s=front

It leaves out the important beginning lines: The British government has learned Oh, well, it was close enough? Ssssssssss, spin.

Last edited: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 at 1:56:28 PM

Me, personally, I've signed up to volunteer my brain to be extracted, stuffed into a jar, and bolted to a toy tank. I life of bouncing through hills and blasting other tanks while I chase after a flagged ball for no particular reason seems to be a more sensible life than trying to deal with our government and its policies.
- BombJames Bomb

"And the citizenry "suffer" 6 week vacations, shorter work weeks, universal health care, lower crime rates and free access to higher education...suckers!"
---> "Don't know where this came from - haven't started catching up yet....but it sounds like Cuba."
Too bad it doesn't sound like here aye.

O, jj. Red herring re: ?

Quote:

I can't match Stink, tho.

Want a fun web site, go here: spinsanity

Last edited: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 at 4:53:42 PM

An article, mid-length.
http://www.populist.com/04.10.crowther.html
___
JJ, in reply to that "the Brits have learned..." bit.
Ok, that bit was truncated, but are the implications different than if had been included?
We still went on their intelligence, aye, so does that make him less responsible?
How does that differ from this republican smear that Kerry will take diplomatic orders from Paris?

Last edited: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 at 5:15:13 PM

Girlies...this intelligence biznatch is a red herring...it was never about acting on intelligence, it was about acting despite it....the iraq invasion was dreamed up years before 9/11.

Or is paul o'neil a dirty rotten liar? Remember, he's served in every republican administration since nixon (except for g h bush -- at that time, paul was the ceo of alcoa).

JJ: less is more?....where do the republicans get off pulling this stunt?...from what I've read, government has absolutely burgeoned during GW...and now you have these guys muddling around in matters that are better left to indy states like...aschroft vs. The state of oregon on assisted suicide...or changing the constitution to ban gay marriage...these guys are meddlers...

The bush-ism aren't attempts at anything...just rubbing his idiocy in the faces of the people supporting him. They are irreconcilable. The inability to synthesize ideas into one coherent, complex sentence belies a low intelligence. His failure to monitor his own message as he produces it suggest that the demands of generating ideas, mapping them onto language, and producing them in the form of speech are beyond his ability. One or two slip-ups are excusible...even normal. But every time this guy speaks off the cuff (which is rare...normally he's heavily scripted) he either produces major sentence fragments, revisions, maze behaviors (starts and restarts), blunders, or absolute boners. Perhaps his lack of polish, difficulty in expression, and butchery of the language are endearing to you, but in the holder of our highest office, I find it beyond belief, discomforting....bordering on nauseating.

Maybe one aspect of these quiet "culture wars" is that the republicans oppose the culture of intellectual elitism....i've read that somewhere. They distrust cosmopolitan sophistication, and verbal sophistry...perhaps -- where bill clinton was concerned -- justifyably. And george w is part of a back-lash.

He is obviously the antithesis of intellectual elitism.

Last edited: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 at 8:22:12 PM

That's the truth.
O btw, upon this I stumbled:
http://www.angryfinger.org/archives/obgyn_love.html
Re my earlier post: Anyone here Bush stumping today?

Last edited: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 at 9:47:38 PM

Anyone practicing their love with george today?

Anywho...i got a real bone to pick with the "liberal" media...those crazy liberals, it seems, have exagerated...er...or maybe fabricated the numbers regarding Bush's bounce....http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/090804W.shtml

Democrat John Kerry Clings To A Narrow Labor Day Lead, New Zogby Interactive Presidential Battleground Poll Reveals http://zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=860

Funny that the rasmussen data, which showed either a slight bump, or none at all was interpreted by Time and Newsweek to be AN 11 POINT BUMP!

That liberal media really cracks me up! Always exagerating about how great the president is!

Last edited: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 at 1:42:10 AM

You guys are against Bush but are you for Kerry?

Howard Dean in LA on dec 15

December 16th, at Drake University in Iowa, Kerry asserted that,

Now Kerry yesterday

OOPS FLIP FLOP

Or do you wish Howard was still here

T raider

Last edited: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 at 1:44:23 AM

T raider: no logical inconsistency as you suggest...

Note in the first case, Kerry argues that the world is better off without saddam...
note in the second that he argues that going to war in iraq was wrong...

These aren't oppositional ideas. I also draw the same conclusion. I'll even use them in the same sentence. "staging a pre-emptive, unilateral war, based on spurious evidence and false allegations of a connection between Iraq and Al qaeda was wrong, but I will concede that the world is a better place without that bastard."

You'd have to be a moron to not think that the world was better off with saddam running around at large...but you can't conflate the statements above. There is a cause and effect relationship being expressed. Going to war with iraq caused the result of saddam's capture.

You can argue against details surrounding the cause, but the effect we have to live with

The end does not justify the means.

Not to be a prick, but this is a good example of the charges of flip-floppery...complex issues require complex thinking...manipulating an unthinking populace, however, just requires a good sound-bite.

Ok
but you didnt answer my question
would rather have Dean?

Claiming flip flop over such a complex issue, based on two statements which make different, non-conflicting claims, is soft.
Perhaps you could clarify specifically what the flip-flop is, as the wee relative liberals cannot figure it out.
___
In more uplifting news, Dick Cheney would like to consider us warned: http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/07/cheney.terror/index.html

Ps...i did sound like a prick, didn't I? Sorry...i meant that kinda thing is easily spun...that's all.

Dean? James dean? Isn't he dead?

Actually T raid, I'm ashamed to admit, I'm one of those cynical bastards who followed the traditional thinking of supporting someone we all thought could beat gw...pretty beat, huh?

Although, I'm probably more aligned with dean's philosophies than kerry's

Pathetic...i know.

Last edited: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 at 3:21:14 AM

Jeez Tally, wasn't 9/11 on cheney's watch? Hmmmmm....

In other news, get ready! assualt weapons jump start sluggish economy! God bless the US! Imagine, if we had a democratically controlled congress, our economy would miss out...hats off to forward thinking republicans and a president who steered the hell clear of this one...

Last edited: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 at 3:17:52 AM

What's being assaulted, exactly?

Er...our collective intelligence?

In wwII America lost 14,000 men in the battle of the buldge
after almost 1.5 years in this war 1000 dead
that is how a strong military saves lives
I'm not belittling those 1000 lives but how may more deaths
would we (and Iraq) have suffered without a superior military.
how many lives does our defence budget have to save to make it
worth it, I think 1

Ok so we shouldnt have went to war but most of the congress
thought we should, it wasnt my call

Maybe we should just not have a military then we would never go to war

Holly Crap! There were only a hundred and seventy some odd posts in this thread when I left for NY last week! I've got some catching up to do! LOL :P

T -

Slippery slope?

How many more lives would have been spared had we not spread ourselves too thin and stayed on the offensive with the Taliban? Sure Saddam is a bad man, but cripes he was a rat in a hole and had no capability of harming us. He Did lots of harm to his own people, but the fact of the matter is, who attacked us? Did Saddam? No! It was freakin Osama bin Laden and he's still out there. Meanwhile we are engaged in battle in two areas where we should really be engaged in catching the one who started all this crap. Other nations would have been behind us, and we had the support to be able to stay the course. Instead, we finish the Bush vendetta and sever most of our foriegn relationships. To me, it doesn't make much sense.

Memphis I agree

My point was that a strong military saves lives

And if not then how far should it be cut back

Nobody thinks we should have a weak military. I don't understand why t-raider heads to the worst possible alternative at all times. Very much the light and darkness approach.
"Ok so we shouldnt have went to war but most of the congress
thought we should, it wasnt my call"
Most of the Congress was also lied to in deliberate fashion, the way most guys lie to pick up chicks. Later, the chicks realize the truth and say "buh-bye," dropping said dude to the street.

The conversation seems to be getting predictable the last few days. Here is an exaggerated summary:

A: It's white!
B: Actually, it's gray.
A: You're claiming it's black? What's wrong with you! It's obvious its not black!
B: No, I said it's gray!
A: Oh, so NOW you say its white? Make up your mind, you waffling flip-flopper!
B: Gray! I'm trying to tell you its gray!
A: Black,white,black,white...I can't understand you, fence-sitter! Pick a side and stay there so I can create exaggerated scenarios on how your ideas won't work!
B: Look, idiot, it isn't THAT complex! You take a black crayon...you take a white crayon...since they both apply, you put the two together. What do you get?
A: I know! WAR!!!!
B: <sigh>

If nothing else, this is entertaining!
I like Howard Dean. I think he'd make a reasonable good president. I think his chances of becoming a president are as good as a smoking medium tank making it to the scrum goal with Bolo, Tally Ho, and ReagentX on his tail. Such is the political system.

- BombJames Bomb

God summary JB.

More info stirred up about Bush's ANG service.

Interestingly, it's not really good or bad. It shows he did some service, but missed out on some crucial drills.
Also, is 336 hours of flight time (including training) a lot? It comes out to about 2 weeks of flying all total for around 3 years of service. I'm not qualified to comment on whether or not this is considered a good amount or not. Maybe it's not even relevant.

Hey JJ...ever read harpers? In the latest, the editor traces the shifting political landscape in the US over the past 50 years from generally "liberal" (I know...that word is so demonized lately...he addresses that too) to a more conservative attitude. In a nut shell, he attributes the shift to the massive support of wealthy individuals and groups (he also discusses pertinent historical events) to think-tanks, lobbyists, and certain media outlets. We're talking about billions and billions of dollars, and single minded billionaires working relentlessly to change the national dialogue, and reset the political consciousness.

Interesting read

In another forum, people are talking about how hostile we are in this forum...and using that as the reason for dropping out of this one. While tempers have flared here and there, I think this has been pretty civil...

People might be dropping out, because their ideas can't stand up to the intense scrutiny of a public forum, and rather than see their ideas compromised...they skiddadle....dats my guess.

@ Tally

Truncated? Paris? Go look at the spinsanity site and get the details on both issues. Too much for here. Tampering on both sides.

@ Stink

The burgeoning government was not entirely due to Republicanism. Government did ease off the private sector. It grew in other areas.

From above Stink:

LOL. Run for office! You got the flair. You remind me of Maureen Dowd, wild columnist for the Times. Here's some of her Sept. 2 column:

Sounds like you, dawg.

The spin from the media against Bush is as hot as what the Republicans may be spinning. You don't think both sides and the media spin, O Naif from Nippon? :)

BTW, that article doesn't jump out on the Harper's site.

Last edited: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 at 11:20:04 PM

If "in that other forum" refers to my post there, I'm not going anywhere. Have just had to actually try and get some work done! I'm plugged in.

Lol JJ..dats funny dawg! But the dems are so lousy at spin, doncha think..? As far as easing off private sectors goes, you are speaking of deregulation, I suppose...there's a reason for regulation, as the california energy crisis illustrates so vividly. Unethical corporations will absolutely screw the populace if given the chance. Enron, while an extreme example, was not an aberration.

And isn't ms. Dowd lampooning and not spinning? I mean, it's her personal observation that republicans typically look like twits when they are getting down. Anyway, thanks for the backhanded compliment! Along those lines, how come the republicans can't attract A list performers to provide entertainment at their shindigs? Barring, of course, some country acts....no self-respecting "artists" want to be associated with the party of corporate avarice and cultural intolerance? (was that another "dowdism"?).

Chief: not a direct refence to anyone... I was worried that JJ and T raider were gonna feel outnumbered and flee...glad to hear you're sticking around.

Ps...where the hell did 44 go? He instigated this damn mess and skiddadled...whimp

Deregulation is nasty.
 Some may call it "lampoon," but others call it "harpoon" I say :).

JJ...not everything one reads is found on the internet! Some stuff you gotta kill trees for!

But give me a sec, I'll see if I can track it down....edit; no dice...this is what its called:

Tentacles of Rage
The Republican propaganda mill, a brief history
Lewis H. Lapham

I know I know...obviously a tad biased...but still interesting. Harper's is a cool mag. Very progressive...in fact, more progressive than liberal, if that makes any sense.

EDIT Part 2: strike that...I found it

Last edited: Thursday, September 09, 2004 at 1:06:59 AM

Last edited: Thursday, September 09, 2004 at 1:47:22 AM

Mmm, prose.
and some propaganda of the visual variety: http://www.norncposters.org/photos.htm

Last edited: Thursday, September 09, 2004 at 3:04:51 AM

Why do they hate us? oh, they don't...they just hate bush
 

I will assume that you're referring to me here. You guess wrong. Many of the posts in here are angry. Anger=Hostility. Even if the anger is not directly pointed at me, it is still a hostile environment. I merely got tired of feeling like I had to defend myself against them.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I apologize if you think that I was accusing you of being incivil to me. It was the near-constant hostility that has beat me down, not the logic.

But I've explained all my reasons for everything I had to say, and have run out of things to say (I've already stated that I don't waste much thought on politics). I am also swamped at work, busy almost non-stop at home, and I am tired. I don't have the energy to wade through the posts, weeding out the anger and looking for the valid points and trying to formulate a response.

If this is insufficient reason for you, then I suggest you wait for me to return. Until then, have a pleasant conversation.

Last edited: Thursday, September 09, 2004 at 11:03:43 AM

Stink?

Should we let them?

Hate Bush hate Bush hate Bush

Everyone who hates Bush is going to vote Kerry
the undecideds evidentally don't hate him

So you dems had better get behind your man Kerry
and support his ideas instead of just all this idiot Bush crap
the only thing is its hard to fake support

I think you can feel the election slipping away so hurry up we need more
Hate Bush Idiot Bush threads and links