Anyone paying attention to this bullsh%t? Check this out:

A group of far-right Bush allies released an ugly and outrageous ad which claims that John Kerry faked his injuries, betrayed his troops, and "dishonored his country" in Vietnam. The ad features people who say "I served with John Kerry" (although they didn't) and who make numerous provably false accusations about Kerry's war record. It's one of the most vile tactics seen yet in Bush's ferociously negative campaign.

The "Swift Boat" ad is so far beyond the pale that even Senator John McCain, a Bush supporter, spoke out about it, calling it "dishonest and dishonorable." Yet despite Senator McCain's request that President Bush "specifically condemn" the ad, Bush refuses to say anything about it.

It's clear that the ad continues the tradition of Bush campaign dirty tricks. In a recent interview, Senator McCain noted that the ad "was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me" in 2000. McCain was referring to a vicious smear campaign -- which included race-baiting allegations that he had a black child our of wedlock -- run by close Bush allies in 2000. In fact, the same firm that ran some of the anti-McCain ads in 2000 produced the "Swift Boat" ad. And although the group claims to be independent of the Republican party, the group's funding mostly comes from a longtime Bush supporter who gave over $20,000 to his campaigns for Texas governor. Further, today it was announced that one of the subjects in the ad is a member of the Bush-Cheney campaign's veterans steering committee.

The "Swift Boat" campaign is a classical political hit job. But even before the ad went on the air, the Washington Post ran a piece discussing how President Bush is running the most negative presidential campaign in U.S. History. In an article titled "From Bush, Unprecedented Negativity," the Post quotes an expert who says that "there is more attack now on the Bush side against Kerry than you've historically had in the general-election period against either candidate."

Discussing the "Swift Boat" ad, Senator John McCain said, "I deplore this kind of politics." Nebraska Governor Mike Johanns (R) called the ad "trash" and even Pat Buchanan said "not a single charge is substantiated... I think the ad is wrong." But George Bush won't condemn it.

Jim Rassman, a Republican veteran who served under Kerry, recently wrote an opinion piece in the Wall Street Journal. He told the story of how Kerry saved his life. And he concluded with these words on the "Swift Boat" veterans: "[W]hen the noise and fog of their distortions and lies have cleared, a man who volunteered to serve his country, a man who showed up for duty when his country called, a man to whom the United States Navy awarded a Silver Star, a Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts, will stand tall and proud. Ultimately, the American people will judge these Swift Boat Veterans for Bush and their accusations. Americans are tired of smear campaigns against those who volunteered to wear the uniform.

Swift Boat Veterans for Bush should hang their heads in shame.

For me, it comes down to this: bush had four years, and he failed miserably...failed the environment, failed the workforce, failed in his response to 9/11, failed in addressing corporate "evil doers", failed in regards to civil rights, failed in foreign policy, failed in regards to education...

He was heralded by some to be a return to moral character and honesty, but he's failed there too...

(NY Times).

No surprises there, the man never had the goods...he's a twice failed business man...he rode the family name into ivy league schools, out of viet nam, into the governership of texas, rode his brother, kathryn harris, and the supreme court into the presidency. He doesn't appear to have ever earned anything in his life.

Whatever kerry's faults, he has the qualifications to be president...republicans hypothesize otherwise...speculate that he will be a failure. Bush, however, is a proven, demonstrated, failure.

Sources:

The actual printed article is longer than the web version. Also, you have to be registered at the Times to see the on-line article. Otherwise, it just comes up as "page expired," or whatever.

I pulled a couple of interesting paragraphs. It appears to me that this story has shaved the line of credibility closely. It was apparently carefully weighed for that, but not by CBS! This is a bomb by them. As journalists they might do better. I don't think the memos will ever be proved to be authentic or false, unless someone tells.

What is interesting also is that Terry McAuliffe, the DNC chairman, is quoted in the article. He says: "It has become crystal clear that the president has lied to the American public about his military service." OK.

I got the news first from NPR whilst driving.

And: CBS

You can download Abode versions of the memos.

Last edited: Saturday, September 11, 2004 at 10:15:57 PM

@ween

I'll be dropping by in a few day to harvest the "corn"......lol, thnks for the........

@stink

Why aren't more Canadians involved in this thread....?

Remember the war of 1812? Need I say more? Please don't put undue stress on Canucks that already fear Bush. Surely, you wouldn't want to paint that house again.

J

So speaketh the grizzly men.

Permission to provide e-mail extracts, Fro (names not included)?

Jangles I'll smoke you out anytime brother : )

.....did anyone mention the movie lOutFoxed . God I hate Bill O'Rielly .

. .

I don't buy it jangles...i'm going to order you an absentee ballot...

I should mention that a green card might be a pre-requisite for my survival.

Permission granted.
http://mediamatters.org/static/right-wing-squares.html

Last edited: Sunday, September 12, 2004 at 4:42:55 AM

Check your brains at the border jangles...and what kind of assualt rifle will you be buying? Thanks to bush and the republican controlled white house, these are once again availible for purchase this monday.

Other prerequisites for your stay:

- you must be willing to believe what you are told.
- you mustn't ask questions
- you must say grace before dinner
- you must believe that americans are doing god's duty here on earth
- you must vote to support selfish, rich, fat, white men
- you must put culture wars ahead of economics and security
- you must believe that the government is your enemy and an impediment to your happiness
- you must revile the poor, needy, handicapped and indigent
- you must be suspicious of minorities
- you mustn't care about international consensus
- you must believe they hate us cause we are free
- you must beleive that the liberals control the media, despite over 2000 christian radio programs, fox news, 250 conservative hate radio programs, and the fact that 5 multinational media conglomerates control over 80% of the media.
- you must think that liberal is a dirty word (never mind that 30 years ago, vastly more people described themselves by this term than by the term conservative).
- above all eles, you must be very very afraid

In other words, you must be a moron if you want to come to america

Thanks, I hope you enjoy your stay...

Lol, stink. The only assault rifle I'll be carrying is my beaver-hunting one which is handily strapped to my left leg just above the knee. Something tells me that once I clear up the ween/Bolo fiasco, I won't be making past Illinois. Call it a calculated hunch if you will.

Y'know, play TT in the wee hours and the true colours of those amongst us really do shine. I hadn't spoken to Fro in mb a month, it was 5 am my time, I made a "bush is a moron" comment and, lo and behold, out came comments from a third party which really summed up why Bush will probably get re-elected. Characters like this I thought only existed on Jerry Springer. But nope......apparently Canadians are socialist pigs and hockey sticks are no different than guns. Even Christianity was tossed about as if to say my heathen soul would forever burn in hell.

Here's my email exchange with Fro and why I love Yankee thinkers like him and the rest of you liberal crowd. Vote that idiot Bush out. The world will love you.

On Sep 11, 2004, at 10:39 AM, jangles wrote:

> Dude, great talking to you again. Woke up today a little scarred by
> XXXXXXXXX's lack of rationalization and his general...oh, let's
> say...."Redneckedness". Yeesh, guys like him make our yahoos look like
> laureates. But, what I found most offensive was his statement that
> "guys
> like us ruined the forums." Yeah, that's right XX, creating
> tournaments and
> organizing them (not-to-mention humorous trash talking :)) always
> brought
> down a nation.
>
> J

Fro's response (gotta love him):

That's the truth. When you run up against "true-believers," you find
these cats who will see what they want, and believe whatever the hell
they want.
It's disturbing because it's the kind of shit we tend to fight against
in this country, not fight for.
"Defend the US at all costs?"
First of all, who said he wouldn't. Who said anybody wouldn't. How does
that distinguish anyone from anyone, but more importantly, when did
bullshit wars with fabricated causality become acceptable? How is this
ok?
Ideology man. It's the fucking devil. These religious clownasses...they
should figure it the fuck out. His comments last night about LA and New
York were preposterous, reminds me of the time when blacks were 1/3 a
man.
I call bullshit.

That dude's stupidity was matched only by his conviction.
_____
BTW, too bad there is no chat transcript from in-game.
Missed his wailing comment about how Bush is gonna win, and there's nothing we can do about it.
Uber-democratic.

Last edited: Sunday, September 12, 2004 at 7:43:43 PM

And people wonder why american politics are in the crapper...it's the american populace that force them there. No sense of perspective.

That just keeps rattling around my brain...

Unfortunate, despicable, true...the republicans have done a fantastic job tapping into religion, disenfranchizement, resentment, fear, and hatred. Unfortunately, america is full of these people ripe for the picking....pipe Rush Limbaugh et al. At them 24 hrs a day, blast them with fox news, stir up issues with homosexuality or minorities, wave the flag in their faces and you got 'em. They'll be so pissed off that they won't even hate u for sending their jobs overseas, or telling them education and health care are privaledges for those who can afford it.

Last edited: Sunday, September 12, 2004 at 8:06:41 PM

@Shrike

I signed up during Desert Storm stupid. I signed up for that unit because it was on active duty at the time. What the hell have you ever done?

@44

It does make me feel better knowing that when the time came Kerry pulled the trigger. Not like Bush when he was told "The country is under attack", he just sat there reading a childrens book.

@(UF)Chief(AB)

Call me all you like. Kerry has almost all the endorsements from Police and Fire departments. Military is more split but most of the high up generals don't think Bush is doing a good job.

@TaKeNoPrIsOnErSs

Hilarious dude! There is a circus out there somewhere missing a clown!

@weentank

That was pretty cool. Hadn't heard about that before.

@stinkfingers

I agree for the most part. What we have to get through though is thinking we are going to be able to have a president we can respect. It's just not going to happen in this day and age. Clinton was the best in a very long time and he's definately tainted.

@ Crow

Why?

Clinton tainted...i agree. Two reasons come to mind immediately

1) to be electable given our new conservative electorate, he had to abandon certain ideas central to Democrats...this tainted him in some democrat's eyes

2) he got his willy sucked, and then lied about it. Stoked up by republican agenda setters in congress and in the press, the self-righteous moralizers demanded impeachment procedures (which stands in stark contrast to bush's lies...i guess since he wears his religion on his sleeve, we don't question the morality about getting american soldiers killed over a lie). For crappin out loud -- JFK sodomized marilyn monroe in the whitehouse, and he gets lionized....the difference I guess is that there was no American Enterprise Institute or Heritage Foundation, or Fox News, or Rush etc. To stoke up the puritanical impulses and self-righteousness of good people everywhere.

I should have been more specific >>>
" agree for the most part. What we have to get through though is thinking we are going to be able to have a president we can respect. It's just not going to happen in this day and age"

By "we" I think he's referring to the 51% of americans who didn't vote for bush. By "we" I think he is referring to people who value intelligence and statesmanship in a president. The "we" does not refer to the rich elites and the people they've duped by playing up the culture wars.

Make no mistake, "they" respect bush. They respect his sense of morality, his go-it-alone attitude, his lack of nuance...and his malapropisms make them feel warm and fuzzy. In other words, they respect him because he mirrors their own personality traits. They prefer his black and white world to a world of nuances. He is the image of a born-again patriarch standing up against evil. This very simple, very archaic imagery is palliative to them. It appeals to many people's sense of equilibrium. It is a reaction against (from the age of the enlightenment onward) the progress of science, technology, and understanding -- all liberal ideas which position the ideals of man over the edicts of god.

Bush restores to america what many americans see as the natural order to the universe, and reestablishes the validity of absolute truths. It is simple mythology easily followed by simple people. And it is at odds with the progressive ideals being embraced by every single post-industrialized country in the world.

Last edited: Monday, September 13, 2004 at 1:47:33 AM

@TallyHo

Why? Because the media and the opposing party will bash anyone who is nominated. They tried to say that Kerry didn't earn his medals? They tried to say that John McCain was a collaberator when he was a POW. No matter who it is people are going to say horrible things and some of it will stick in peoples memory's. I would much rather never have known about Clinton's affair for example.

What I was trying to say is even if you don't like Kerry you need to vote for him because he will most likely be best for the nation. I'm so sick of hearing people talk about who they are going to vote for based on who they like the best. Vote for who's going to help America not who wins the talent show.

@stickyfingers

Sorta yeah... For instance if JFK were president in this time yes they would have hung him over Marilyn and many other things I'd say. Politics are too dirty now and most people just aren't smart enough to figure out what is the best thing to do. My brother is a Microsoft Developer and works for Microsoft. He is about as smart as they get but man he doesn't know anything about what is going on. Most people don't. They catch what they can in 15 minutes worth of news each week. America is asleep at the wheel. I don't care how good or bad the politicians are we wouldn't have these problems if it weren't for the mindset of americans right now. People have never been this stupid.

You say your brother, representative of the population, is "as smart as they get," but that people have never been this stupid.
Funnel your argument Crow, I can't decipher what your point is - and I think I agree with you.
Be more specific.

@Tally_Ho

Dude forget it!

Check this out

Or better yet!

Here's another good one.

Just discovered thetalentshow.com, a pissed off lefty blogger. One of his respondents:

http://www.thetalentshow.org/archives/001217.html

[ in other news ]
Alan Keyes, ladies and gentleman, Alan Keyes...
http://www.rooftopreport.com/rooftopreport/archives/000957.php

@ Crow

Do some research - it's pretty simple. The press releases from Kerry's camp stating who's backing them get time and exposure - Bush's don't. Without getting into it too deeply, it's pretty obvious you are a victim of the liberal media by basically eating up the gruel they serve you without question.

Case in point - Nat'l Assoc of Police Chiefs endorsed Bush. I don't have the time to check the rest, but this one inaccuracy causes me to question the balance of your statement. This is what I was referring to when I said you needed to quote your sources. Making comments without basis is a trademark tactic of those whose only wish is to keep so much smoke in the air that the facts can't be easily identified of digested - another example is below.

I think that you will find that although we have all agreed to disagree here, we are simply enjoying a spirtited political debate here. We are really trying to avoid the venom and mean-spirited atmosphere that permeates this type of discussion everyewere else. That's a good percentage of why I have enjoyed this thread so much - this has also allowed me to understand the other sides POV and issues associated with them as well.

I am going to echo stinky here - try questioning some of what you are digesting and decide for yourself.

Anyone notice how all of a sudden you can't find anything on these Bush memos that are bing questioned? I just checked - MSNBC, CBS, ABC - it's off ALL of their front pages. Too bad it won't work though....cat's out the bag.

@ Chief
Sadly, facts have nothing to do with truth or belief. For instance, the Police Chiefs may have endorsed Bush but the International Brotherhood of Police Officers (IBPO) endorsed Kerry. So basically the guys on the line don't agree with their bosses. For me this is very telling and a bit of a mirror into the current administration. A bunch of SudiBushies letting others do the dying for them.

@ Fleabiscuit

Good point. Frankly, I was quite surprised that any union would support Bush or any other Republican for that matter. While I live in the South, and have been fortunate enough to not have to join a union in order to work, it has always been my understanding that the union members often don't have the luxury of knowing where their dues wind up or have a lot of control in what the union does politically - again these are drawn conclusions.

Those that don't know are those who choose not to become informed and participate. It's a shame voting for President isn't the same.

Well Chief, you may want to check your info a little better before posting in the future. I just looked at MSNBC, CBS and ABC. Only ABC doesn't have a link on their home page to the controversy surrounding the ANG memos. On MSNBC and CBS, just scroll down a bit. They aren't "top" stories anymore. And before you go proclaiming that that's further evidence of liberal controlled media, take a look at Fox News, which we all know is a far-right wing controlled media outlet. It's not one of their "top" stories either. I'll take a guess as to why. There are are more important things in the news right now, like Hurricane Ivan bearing down on Cuba and possibly Florida once again. Like North Korea confirming what that big mushroom cloud was that appeared over their northern province. Like the assault weapons ban that is set to expire tonight. Like many other things.

Maybe you should give the whole "liberal media" cry a rest, eh? You know damn well that isn't true. Most media is BIG business. Big business is BIG money. BIG money is usually Republican. So I don't know how you keep coming to your conclusion. Seems like you're the one who's a victim here.

It is true.

Well, maybe not as true as it once was since folks started commenting on it and writing books about it and doing studies on it and so on, but there is a left lean to news reporting. I don't see how news being a business or being connected to a larger business automatically makes it "right wing" or Republican. That myth should be dispelled with one word...Heinz.

And no, Fox News isn't "far right-wing controlled" as some would like for us to believe. Yes, its more conservative than the other outlets so, well, maybe by that comparison it seems to be far right since the left control most of the rest (except talk radio), but being conservative isn't bad or wrong as some would like to believe.

And according to this research, Fox is actually centrist when comparied to most other outlets. Perhaps that's why American's tend to favor Fox News in the Nelson ratings. They just want the news without the bias (from either side).

Last edited: Monday, September 13, 2004 at 5:45:21 PM

@(UF)Chief(AB)

Dude you're a wack job.

Bushy vs. Kerry

Both flip flop, but which flip flopper is more detrimental to the country.

Kerry: has flip flopped his position on the war against iraq, based on info recieved from the intelligence congregated by the current administration.

Bush: In 2000, Bush argued against new military entanglements and nation building. He's done both in Iraq.
He opposed a Homeland Security Department, then embraced it.

Bushy flip flop cost us billions of dollars and over 1000 of our US soldier... He did not want to die for his country but bushy wont think twice to send you to die for your country in a frivolous war.

Yeargh! This thread is all over the map! I really must quit leaving for a few days, since it then takes me hours to catch up!

First off, you might as well forget stating what the general "soldiers", "firemen", "police" are voting for or against. Polls are almost always biased (both sides can claim support of a certain employment), and checking a census of how they are registered means little. Claiming which candidate the police, soliders, or firemen are supporting is pointless. I'm not going to automatically vote for who the police or soldiers vote for anyway.

As for the whole Honorable Discharge thing: the technical term is a "GENERAL Discharge under HONORABLE conditions." That is what Bush got. You can't get an Honorable Discharge early without it being for medical reasons.

Screw the stupid Memo fiasco. I'm voting for a President, not a General. Will somebody please smack the two candidates until they finally shut about their military duty and start talking about domestic issues? If another Republican tells me about the potential instability of switching presidents during a time of war, or another Democrat beats his chest about having a president who spilled some blood decades ago, I'm going to tie each of the wankers to my tank-tube hand them a newspaper, and start doing tube-elevation speed-checks (lift....wham!...lift....wham!) until they learn to read past the front page! Then I'm going to ask them if my tank's actions improved their schools, homeless conditions, pollution situation, or job market!

We are electing a PRESIDENT, not a Secretary of Defense! He's supposed to be working on DOMESTIC issues as well, not DISTRACTING us from them!!!
Quit wasting your time about their military history.

Even if we ignored the military past, Kerry is a helluva lot better.

- BombJames Bomb

Yeah JB, totally agree. They need to just end all this crap about military service already. Looks like Kerry was addressing some real issues on a campaign stop today. Namely this assault weapons ban that the Bush admin and fellow Republicans are simply ignoring and letting expire.

It just blows me away that they're allowing this to happen. I'm not a hunter or gun enthusiast, but I can understand if people want to hunt or do target practice for sport reasons. But NO-ONE can convince me that we need to allow gun shops to sell AK47's and Uzi's to the public. Come on! Who the hell needs this stuff?? Is this a way to keep America safe? How long before these get into the hands of terrorists? I hope I'm wrong and that last bit doesn't come to pass. This is a scary situation, and Bush should be addressing it by urging the ban to continue. Instead it seems he's bowing to pressure from groups like the NRA to let it slide. And what gets me is he has even stated that he supports the ban, yet he chooses to do nothing for fear of angering his powerful friends.

How's that for a President who claims to want to protect the country and it's citizens? What a f*cking wimp! Grow some balls Dubya!

Well, this will certainly not win him any support from police officers on the streets that have to face criminals who may soon be able to gun them down with gusto. What the hell is this man thinking!? Or, should I say, Is he thinking?

I must say I am impressed that assault rifles is even an issue again. Assault rifles trade off accuracy for stopping power. They are crap to hunt with. (Yes, I actually tried to hunt with an AK-47 in my stupidity years). You don't want an assault rifle to defend your home, because a pistol is much more convenient and quicker to shoot around corners. Assault rifles are made for one purpose: to kill many people from a distance...hard. Basically, the gun shops want to sell these things to military fanatics and the unmentionable type of people. These kind of people have money to burn.

Permitting assault rifles for the sake of hunting or personal defense is like selling a double-edged sword to cut BBQ steak.

- BombJames Bomb

@JB

I agree with you....there's only one use for assault wepaons, and that's to assault someone.

HOWEVER - some people see the ban as a toehold to banning firearms altogether. I think that's where the crux of the issue is.

@ Rabban

Thank you for pointing that out!

@ Crow

Sorry you feel like you can't have a thoughtful discussion with the rest of us. If you'll go back and look at all of the previous posts, I hope you will notice that you are the only one calling people names and affixing labels

Someone posted some pretty pictures and distracted you all...but as I was saying:

"Make no mistake, "they" respect bush. They respect his sense of morality, his go-it-alone attitude, his lack of nuance...and his malapropisms make them feel warm and fuzzy. In other words, they respect him because he mirrors their own personality traits. They prefer his black and white world to a world of nuances. He is the image of a born-again patriarch standing up against evil. This very simple, very archaic imagery is palliative to them. It appeals to many people's sense of equilibrium. It is a reaction against (from the age of the enlightenment onward) the progress of science, technology, and understanding -- all liberal ideas which position the ideals of man over the edicts of god.

Bush restores to america what many americans see as the natural order to the universe, and reestablishes the validity of absolute truths. It is simple mythology easily followed by simple people. And it is at odds with the progressive ideals being embraced by every single post-industrialized country in the world."

Rabban rabban rabban!!!

Last edited: Monday, September 13, 2004 at 1:47:33 PM

Last edited: Monday, September 13, 2004 at 8:00:19 PM

Yeah, but did you see him with that bullhorn?

FO FO FO FO FO FO

--44 (couldn't resist)

I saw that 44 444 44 too...uncanny

More funniness http://www.pleasurecaptains.com/happy.html

@(UF)Chief(AB)

Sorry if you don't like to hear the truth. You sound like a conspiracy theorist nut. I don't think that's healthy.

Jeez, Crow, Chief isn't the only one pointing out conspiracies; both sides are giving theories. Put the sword down and just contribute your point of view on the issues at hand. You can contradict his ideas, but this is one of the few long-term threads that hasn't broken down into a name-calling virtual fist-fight, and I'd like to keep it that way.

- BombJames Bomb

Thanks JB and OM, I think.

I thought this thread was headed for the doldrums and you headed it in a better direction.

So, what about domestic issues.

Last edited: Monday, September 13, 2004 at 9:23:16 PM

Great link Rabban.

@JamesBomb

I didn't ask you.