Anyone paying attention to this bullsh%t? Check this out:

A group of far-right Bush allies released an ugly and outrageous ad which claims that John Kerry faked his injuries, betrayed his troops, and "dishonored his country" in Vietnam. The ad features people who say "I served with John Kerry" (although they didn't) and who make numerous provably false accusations about Kerry's war record. It's one of the most vile tactics seen yet in Bush's ferociously negative campaign.

The "Swift Boat" ad is so far beyond the pale that even Senator John McCain, a Bush supporter, spoke out about it, calling it "dishonest and dishonorable." Yet despite Senator McCain's request that President Bush "specifically condemn" the ad, Bush refuses to say anything about it.

It's clear that the ad continues the tradition of Bush campaign dirty tricks. In a recent interview, Senator McCain noted that the ad "was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me" in 2000. McCain was referring to a vicious smear campaign -- which included race-baiting allegations that he had a black child our of wedlock -- run by close Bush allies in 2000. In fact, the same firm that ran some of the anti-McCain ads in 2000 produced the "Swift Boat" ad. And although the group claims to be independent of the Republican party, the group's funding mostly comes from a longtime Bush supporter who gave over $20,000 to his campaigns for Texas governor. Further, today it was announced that one of the subjects in the ad is a member of the Bush-Cheney campaign's veterans steering committee.

The "Swift Boat" campaign is a classical political hit job. But even before the ad went on the air, the Washington Post ran a piece discussing how President Bush is running the most negative presidential campaign in U.S. History. In an article titled "From Bush, Unprecedented Negativity," the Post quotes an expert who says that "there is more attack now on the Bush side against Kerry than you've historically had in the general-election period against either candidate."

Discussing the "Swift Boat" ad, Senator John McCain said, "I deplore this kind of politics." Nebraska Governor Mike Johanns (R) called the ad "trash" and even Pat Buchanan said "not a single charge is substantiated... I think the ad is wrong." But George Bush won't condemn it.

Jim Rassman, a Republican veteran who served under Kerry, recently wrote an opinion piece in the Wall Street Journal. He told the story of how Kerry saved his life. And he concluded with these words on the "Swift Boat" veterans: "[W]hen the noise and fog of their distortions and lies have cleared, a man who volunteered to serve his country, a man who showed up for duty when his country called, a man to whom the United States Navy awarded a Silver Star, a Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts, will stand tall and proud. Ultimately, the American people will judge these Swift Boat Veterans for Bush and their accusations. Americans are tired of smear campaigns against those who volunteered to wear the uniform.

Swift Boat Veterans for Bush should hang their heads in shame.

Re: tmo's against-bush comment up above.
that's only 90ish percent of it.

Sheesh JJ, thing is, I'm not even angry...i just come off like an ah_le out of frustration...no offense to chief...but I hear that undigested rant on Faux News nightly. It stinks of an utter lack of skepticism.

You want a foreign policy out of me? Er...ok here goes:

1) convince the UN to take over Iraq...apologize profusely and cut our losses. Blame the whole thing on shell-fish poisoning.
2) pull all us troops out of saudi arabia: wish them luck
3) demand israel tear down all illegal settlements and begin working on an equitable idea for land share and self-governance. Threaten to cut off all military and economic funding if they can't come up with something acceptable to us within one month.
4) go find osama bin laden and blow his gdm brains out...
5) drop a couple missles on syria and iran for the part they played in staging their fighters in iraq. Then say "ooops, my bad."
6) drop another missile on iran and tell them more are coming if they don't lay off with the nukes.
7) circle the wagons around N. Korea, tell them they are next.
8) investigate halliburton's and g.e.'s alleged investment in roque nations like syria and iran. Convict and nationalize both companies.
9) seize all saudi investments in the us...thank them profusely, sell them to american companies for pennies on the dollar...give the profits to the victims of 9/11
10) sign the kyoto agreement
11) take china off favored nations list
12) enact economic protections against countries that disregard workers rights and fail to protect the environment
13) pass a law making off shore banking an act of economic treason
14) restructure the military into small, elite high tech units like in starship troopers. Drop them off all over the planet from a mother ship to rub out terror cells whereever they pop up.
15) tell the world bank to eat my ass
16) tell the IMF to "sit on this"
17) provide incentives for companies to bring back production jobs (er, that's getting into domestic policy...about which I have a lot more to say)(but along these lines, invest in research and technology to make US factories the best in the world again, employ everyone who wants a job...give them a living wage. No one can compete with us in technology and innovation, and if we do it right, no one can touch our production.)
18) stomp the living hell out of anyone who thinks its ok to go raping and murdering ethnic minorities anywhere, for any reason...i got a long list.
19) bitch-slap the pope.
20) tell everyone we're back in business...cut with the two-faced crap: do the right thing, say what we mean, mean what we say. Be fair with all, especially our allies. Be tolerant of those who aren't...but stomp the living hell out of those who mean us harm.

Er..that oughta do it...where do I sign up?

Damn, that sucks jj...i just typed out a long winded response....ptt ate it up....and I'm too lazy to do it again.

TMO: now there you are right...thing is, we got no one to be for. It sucks. We definitely got someone to be against...

Four more years? Jesus, that should just about do it...like I said, the DNC have it coming. If you think this nation is polarized now...just wait.

Oh, there it is!

I'm forwarding that to DNC now!

Some of them put me in tears...

Last edited: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 at 1:37:03 AM

:)

I'd modify this. Instead of giving them incentives for staying, how about just not giving them incentives for leaving.

Last edited: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 at 3:43:16 AM

10) sign the kyoto agreement
11) take china off favored nations list

Bravo Sinky

19) bitch-slap the pope.

LOL XD what's the pope got to do with this?

I'm not sure stealth, but I'm not taking any chances

@stinky: You need to tone back your posts, man! It doesn't bode well for me to have people hear me blow coffee out of my nose when I'm supposed to be working.
Damn, I have just seen the ultimate hybrid of genius insanity at work! This thread is just all over the map!

- BombJames Bomb

http://slate.msn.com/id/2106025/

@ stinky

LOL!!!!!!

I'd vote for your ass in a second.

Speaking of bad shellfish - one of the primary reasons for a couple of my halfassed comments last night. I deserved to be bashed on the Nader comment. Instead of a belch and my falling on the floor, imagine a fart and someone taking the shit of their lives.

Regarding Vietnam - I was being completely serious. The whole issue has been obfuscated by spindoctors, 529 groups, et al.

Example: Dems go to the official record (which is the obvious move since the records are the reason he has the medals). Conservative groups suspect but can't prove their allegations.
Example: GOP pulls out "all the records" and says "that's it, catshit". Dems suspect but can't prove their allegations.

There has been so much smoke here (from the biased mainstream media), we have no choice but to go to the FACTS:

1) Bush went into the TX ANG. Kerry went into the Navy.

2) Bush transferred to the AL ANG to complete his active duty. Is honorably discharged - commanding officer says he served honorably - no one can find evidence to the contrary. Kerry is injured numerous times in combat - is awarded enough medals to sink a ship. Goes home after 4 mos of active duty.

3) Bush goes away - basically coke and Beam binge begins here. Kerry goes to Washington - throws SOMEONE'S medals onto the White House Lawn (caught on video) and testifies before the US Senate that his comrades-in-arms are war criminals. At the same time, please note that John McCain was being beat like a GD gong by the North Vietnamese in an attempt to get the same confession out of him.

30+ years later

1) Bush is running for re-election as President of the United States. John Kerry is running against him - makes his Vietnam service a front and center issue (at least per the convention).

The above isn't bullshit or interpretation - they are cold hard agreed upon historical facts that can't be argued.

I know it appears as though I am being faithful to the GOP - but quite honestly I am much more centrist than you think.

CONFESSION: I voted for Wild Bill in 1992. There - I said it. I was really pissed at Big George about his shitting backwards on the "read my lips" thing.

@ JJ

GDI that is funny.

@ TMO

Here is the link

I haven't read the book yet - haven't taken the time to read the reviews.

@ stinky again

SOooooooo.....that would define you as one of "Ahnahld's"

Sorry bro - had to do it.......

@ all

It is apparent that the Democratic Party is coming apart at the seams. Kerry is polling lower than ever (I know like it makes a difference) and as I think we can all agree isn't carrying forth a theme or message other than "Bush has to go". People simply aren't buying it. and unless they get their shit together quick 2004's a write-off.

My question: will this make room for a third party - whether led by Nader or someone else?

Last edited: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 at 5:33:55 PM

Hmmm.. Interesting question: Since the Dems are playing more center, if the extreme Liberals move to Nader's party in disgust, the Dems would BECOME the center, possibly pulling the disillusioned moderates from the Republicans, and Presto, a 3 party system!!!

I'll even give it a 1% chance of actually happening! I wish it were higher than than. ;)

That may be exactly the "work-in-process" we're seeing.

What makes all of this thread the more extraordinary is the fact that we all enjoy blowing the shit out of cartoon tanks......

LOL chief..true dat.

Good long winded post above chief. But doncha think the repubs do a better jobs creating doubt and then exploiting it? Seems so to me. But what really gets me, is that the democrats, after years of seeing it done masterfully by the right, can't properly run a smear campaign. Talk about girly men! Dems better learn to fight dirty, or this one is definitely in the books, and all gods creatures, large and small are one step closer to the brink of destruction.

Hyperbole, I know.

T Ho, great post...unfortunately, no one cares about the ability of this president to think....in case you didn't get the memo, all we are supposed to be worried about is TERROR. Now, get back in line.

Best laugh of the day.

--44 (with 100 well-oiled, well used IQ points and not nearly enough time on my hands).

I'll make one quick comment on Bush's effectiveness as commander in chief: His strategy for the war on terror is strengthening the enemy.

Thanks Tally.....I think.

@ stinky

Code red! Code red!

I'm not convinced of that.. But neither do I believe he's doing it 100% right either. I am very skeptical of the US media's ability to accurately "local" attitudes in the Middle East. Not that I know any better, naturally. XD

PS - What's with the emphasis on IQ in here? It has very little practical application. (145, btw XD )

Best line on the protests: "You got these protesters here screaming about the need to change the way the country is headed. But it is hard to take them seriously when they aren't wearing pants."

Last edited: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 at 9:10:39 PM

@ JJ

LOL

@ TMO

Somewhere along the line IQ was mentioned - I may have even been the one, hell who knows.

Stinky is of the opinion that I'm not using mine....

:) true dat

Ok ok, chief started the iq thing I think, somewhere he mentioned his is 160...now TMO is saying his is 145. A 160 IQ is exactly 4 standard deviations above the mean...statistically speaking, like two people in the US have this IQ...apparently chief is one of them XD....now, the 145 IQ is exactly 3 SD above the mean and would put you in the 99th percentile...

Let me ask you fellers a question: are these mail-in IQ tests? Are you doing these over the internet? A valid Intelligence test has to be administered by a trained prof. Such as a psychologist. And it has to be valid. There a a very small number of assessment measures that are valid...and a lot of goofy, silly measures that don't mean crap. I took that goofy tickle test on the internet one night when I was absolutely blitzed it gave me a score of 130...which is a crock of poop. Completely invalid

Now, 145 is genius level, 160 is almost off the charts....

KMart - LOL

No actually was administered by the local school district - I was tanking in school and no one could figure out why....so I was taken down to the district office and voila! (imagine Teresa Heinz saying this) - turns out I just can't see shit. Supposedly came from sitting too close to the TV when I was little, but I think that was a crock.

I am assuming a trained professional administered a mainstream test since I was in the main school district office, but in all honesty I don't have a clue.

It would figure - just be just another example of how everytime the gov't gets involved in someone's private life they fuck it up.

Last edited: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 at 11:41:34 PM

160 with no clue...funny I got a iq test from cracker jack box that said, "your iq is 256"...woot im a winner.

LOL - you got me on that one stinky. It's an internet IQ test. XD Took 2 different ones, 149 & 142. I just averaged 'em.

Call me 100 IQ then - doesn't matter to me. IQ means exactly diddly-squat in the real world. If you want scores I can verify - 1400 SAT; 32 Combined ACT (evidently I'm allowed to add 2 more to my combined as they've since made the ACT easier, so I guess it'd be a 34 combined. I wonder if my 35 Math score is now a 37? Nice for a scale of 1 to 36. %) )

Part of it though is training - I went to a college prep high school, so I took the PSAT for two years running before taking the SAT for real. I took the ACT after that, as the college I wound up attending used the ACT instead. So if you go with my first PSAT score - it's 1270.

Or, if we go with things that actually count - I'm devilishly handsome, charming to a fault, and able to write BS faster than Demo (Da Cleaner) can cliffdive.

Last edited: Thursday, September 02, 2004 at 1:01:33 AM

Now your talking! Statistically speaking 63% of us all fall within one standard deviation of the norm...

I've never been iq tested...but I administer standardized language evals. And interpret children's IQ and academic testing as part of my job at school...

I accept chief's answer...chances are it is a near accurate reflection...because special ed testing is highly regulated...of course, the scores aren't very stable for young kids, so it may not be entirely accurate, depending on when it was administered.

The internet tests are a hoot, but not valid...fun for when your drunk!

Didn't know they weren't valid, although I shoulda been more skeptical. But it fed into my ego quite nicely. ;) I know I'm smart - I AM a geek, after all. XD

Oh, and btw - according to Ego TMO - I am not part of the 63%... XD Ego TMO likes that 99%+ number you mentioned...

Ego TMO is very good at his job...

Update: Just to be a bit more specific on the Internet IQ tests - since I'm not familiar with them at all (never having completed one): the first one I took was a more generic one, it pegged me at 149. I then took the "high IQ" specific one, and it pegged me at 142. I suppose I shoulda just quoted that one instead of averaging them. *blush*

Last edited: Thursday, September 02, 2004 at 1:58:21 AM

I took 1 for a college stats class one time. Im not gonna gloat over it though.

Anything over 150 means you read 500 wpm or take absolutely NO time to think. Like 125 and up means you got all the questions right. The scores get higher the faster you finish the test.

130 - 150 is usually an indicator of a highly intelligent individual in problem solving. It doesnt measure anything else

B

@ stinky and TMO

There ain't no way in hell either of you guy's is lower than mine. I have really enjoyed this intelligent discussion with everyone.

@ All

Did anyone watch Zell Miller's speech tonight?

If Zell Miller represents the New Democrat Party, then sign me up tomorrow.

(Purposely ignoring Vash as I know he's full of shit anyway....)

Addendum - I thought 130+ was genius level (whatever THAT means).

What IQ do I have to reach in order to develop telekinesis? The TV remote is just out of reach and I don't want to get up...

Since you're a Republican than you should have a house servant to fetch it for you.

If you've sent yours on vacation just call 711 and Dick Cheney will have one delivered - in 30 minutes or it's free.

I'm going to bed.

!
well, when you look at the results TMO, it never says "genius." 130 is "superior." anything above that says something like "above superior." although I'm hazy on this because most of my kids come out in the 65-80 range or "below average" which translates to "dumb-shit" or "future ditch digger" or simply "felon."

Honestly, these test have to be valid...the development and norming process is unbelievably expensive and time consuming...and then they have to be administered by a trained pro....personally, I think those internet IQ tests are just set up to ingratiate you, I mean, imagine how pissed off you'd be you got a 77 or something.

In regards to my IQ, I am honestly doubtful if it falls outside of the norm. Remember, while IQ can be influenced by your experience and education to a very small degree, it is supposed to be a measure of your inate mental ability to process. It is supposed to be genetic, for the most part (with obvious limits: I mean, if you stuck a kid in a box from birth to age six, and then asked him to reconstruct a visual 4 part story, he'd probably just smear feces on the wall).

But aren't we getting off the subject? GD the DNP! Bunch of sissies letting the RNC run all over them!

Isn't that what elections really come down too? Image control, sound bites, sh#t slinging, counter punching..., gouging, crying, lieing...the works. Why don't the dems learn how to play the game?

You guys crack me the hell up!

Chief - You got the wrong guy. I ain't Republican. I'm independent. <- See? I used the word "ain't". No Republican worthy of the name would stoop so low. XD

On some issues I lean conservative, on others I lean liberal. To be honest though, since I pay very little attention to politics, I'm not sure which issues I'm which on. Pro-Choice (and I mean the word choice literally - abortions are NOT the only option); Pro-Death Penalty; Anti-Isolationist; Pro-Free Trade; neither Pro-Business or Pro-Union - I'm Pro-Balance.

This is where I split from politics, why I don't follow it. This is where my idealism is stronger than my realism - Damnit!!! It should NOT be this way! And since I do realize that reality will never match my ideals, I just don't care to follow it. I pick an issue or two, and use it as my meter, and ignore the rest of the BS. I refuse to sink to their level.

Anyone happen to see Zell on Hardball?
He challenged Chris Matthews to a duel, essentially.
Very amusing.

TMO: I think the term is "superego." :)
We will discuss during championship ring ceremony...

My IQ's outta place. Can I borrow a comb?

Last edited: Thursday, September 02, 2004 at 9:29:26 AM

Ego TMO does a couple of different jobs. I don't know a lot of "real" psychology, so I keep it simple.

"I like tanks"

IQ 130 will get you into MENSA if you take some standarized test that costs you an arm and left ear. That is if you want to hang out with a bunch of arrogant, ego-maniacal, oh wait...

How did this thread become about IQ anyway?

My fault...

Back on track

Bend over G W, there's a lil storm abrewing:

" Throughout his political career Bush has adamantly denied that he got a Guard pilot spot through preferential treatment. That, despite the fact Bush was jumped ahead of a nationwide waiting list of 100,000 Guard applicants, while achieving the lowest possible passing grade on his pilot aptitude test for would-be fliers, and listing "none" as his background qualifications.

Barnes, once a rising star in Texas politics, insists strings were pulled on Bush's behalf, and he helped pull them. Speaking to Kerry supporters in Austin, Texas, in May, he said, "I got a young man named George W. Bush into the Texas National Guard... I got a lot of other people in the National Guard because I thought that was what people should do when you're in office, and you help a lot of rich people." Recalling a recent visit to the Vietnam Memorial, Barnes added, "I looked at the names of the people that died in Vietnam, and I became more ashamed of myself than I have ever been, because it was the worst thing I ever did, was help a lot of wealthy supporters and a lot of people who had family names of importance get into the National Guard. And I'm very sorry about that, and I'm very ashamed."

Tune into 60 minutes next week for more....now this is the kind of dirt the DNC needs to be be slinging...now if we can find the guys who sold Bush coke, and if the girls who bush date-raped will come forward (well he was in a frat, wasn't he?), we may just have corralled the real "issues" in this campaign, republican style.

@chief, yes u r right I am full of shit... I have not shitted in a week. Must be all that chronic I smoke...

But how did u know that, hummm...

160=esp?

@ stinky

LOL

I actually heard of this last week and was wondering when it would take hold. Like the Swiftvets and TX ANG angle, I would lend more weight to it if it weren't so obviously wrapped up in political motivation. Vietnam was over a long time before he went to the Wall - seriously folks, if it weighed on his mind that much why the rush in waiting 30+ years?

This ties nicely into my next observation.....

@ TMO

We are actually closer idealogically than you think.

Along that line - as you can tell I am very pessimistic to a certain extent. I am very disillusioned with the national media in general and am at times quite amazed at the amount of crap they have been able to feed both conservatives and liberals.

@ Vash

Ya got me! LOL

I hope you know I was just kidding with that comment.....

Well chief, it's at least as relevant as the swiftboat vets claim. And clarifies things a bit:

Kerry served in vietnam...which gives him a claim on "patriotism"
Bush used wealth and status to avoid vietnam...which gives him a claim on "typical rich kid, pussy"

But he'll gladly send your kids off to die. Just hope that you have enough money and clout to buy their way out of it.

@ stinky

You really think there's that much corruption? Nonetheless, in that light, in my mind the Barnes comment falls into this "slot" (posted earlier) for lack of a better word:

That being said - I think the biggest reason the DNC hasn't pushed the Barnes comment is that the Vietnam line ain't cutting it anymore.

And yet the swiftboat vets keep rolling on along...many think that their unsubstantiated, partisan attacks are the biggest reason for kerry's falling in the polls.

Another example of bush, the frat-boy's character:

"Before there was Karl Rove, Lee Atwater or even James Baker, the Bush family's political guru was a gregarious newspaper owner and campaign consultant from Midland, Texas, named Jimmy Allison. In the spring of 1972, George H.W. Bush phoned his friend and asked a favor: Could Allison find a place on the Senate campaign he was managing in Alabama for his troublesome eldest son, the 25-year-old George W. Bush?

"The impression I had was that Georgie was raising a lot of hell in Houston, getting in trouble and embarrassing the family, and they just really wanted to get him out of Houston and under Jimmy's wing," Allison's widow, Linda, told me. "And Jimmy said, 'Sure.' He was so loyal."

Linda Allison's story, never before published, contradicts the Bush campaign's assertion that George W. Bush transferred from the Texas Air National Guard to the Alabama National Guard in 1972 because he received an irresistible offer to gain high-level experience on the campaign of Bush family friend Winton "Red" Blount. In fact, according to what Allison says her late husband told her, the younger Bush had become a political liability for his father, who was then the United States ambassador to the United Nations, and the family wanted him out of Texas. "I think they wanted someone they trusted to keep an eye on him," Linda Allison said."

What a big turd this bush dude is...what a pussy frat-boy. To think this lump of human waste grew up to be president...to think intelligent people voted for this human void.

The dem spinners are kicking into gear....rove and card, viscious bastards that they are, are probably already in counter spin mode.

Watta ya mean corruption? Do I think that rich powerful folks call in favors? Jeezus, what turnip truck did you just fall off of chief?

Bush should send the his twin daughters to the iraq war...

He dont mind sending your kids to a just war.

Oh nm, he learned long ago from his dad not to send your own kids to war.

Thanks for the insight stinks.

(still think the bush twins are hot, im just saying...)

Last edited: Thursday, September 02, 2004 at 11:40:58 PM