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44

Anyone paying attention to this bullsh%t? Check this out:

A group of far-right Bush allies released an ugly and outrageous ad which claims that John Kerry faked his injuries, betrayed his troops, and "dishonored his country" in Vietnam. The ad features people who say "I served with John Kerry" (although they didn't) and who make numerous provably false accusations about Kerry's war record. It's one of the most vile tactics seen yet in Bush's ferociously negative campaign.

The "Swift Boat" ad is so far beyond the pale that even Senator John McCain, a Bush supporter, spoke out about it, calling it "dishonest and dishonorable." Yet despite Senator McCain's request that President Bush "specifically condemn" the ad, Bush refuses to say anything about it.

It's clear that the ad continues the tradition of Bush campaign dirty tricks. In a recent interview, Senator McCain noted that the ad "was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me" in 2000. McCain was referring to a vicious smear campaign -- which included race-baiting allegations that he had a black child our of wedlock -- run by close Bush allies in 2000. In fact, the same firm that ran some of the anti-McCain ads in 2000 produced the "Swift Boat" ad. And although the group claims to be independent of the Republican party, the group's funding mostly comes from a longtime Bush supporter who gave over $20,000 to his campaigns for Texas governor. Further, today it was announced that one of the subjects in the ad is a member of the Bush-Cheney campaign's veterans steering committee.

The "Swift Boat" campaign is a classical political hit job. But even before the ad went on the air, the Washington Post ran a piece discussing how President Bush is running the most negative presidential campaign in U.S. History. In an article titled "From Bush, Unprecedented Negativity," the Post quotes an expert who says that "there is more attack now on the Bush side against Kerry than you've historically had in the general-election period against either candidate."

Discussing the "Swift Boat" ad, Senator John McCain said, "I deplore this kind of politics." Nebraska Governor Mike Johanns (R) called the ad "trash" and even Pat Buchanan said "not a single charge is substantiated... I think the ad is wrong." But George Bush won't condemn it.

Jim Rassman, a Republican veteran who served under Kerry, recently wrote an opinion piece in the Wall Street Journal. He told the story of how Kerry saved his life. And he concluded with these words on the "Swift Boat" veterans: "[W]hen the noise and fog of their distortions and lies have cleared, a man who volunteered to serve his country, a man who showed up for duty when his country called, a man to whom the United States Navy awarded a Silver Star, a Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts, will stand tall and proud. Ultimately, the American people will judge these Swift Boat Veterans for Bush and their accusations. Americans are tired of smear campaigns against those who volunteered to wear the uniform.

Swift Boat Veterans for Bush should hang their heads in shame.

Sunday, August 22, 2004 at 9:18:28 AM

Nice clip Tally :) http://home.earthlink.net/~houval/gopconstrm.mov

Last edited: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 at 8:45:17 PM

Tuesday, October 05, 2004 at 8:41:22 PM
OM

LOL! Have to admit, that is some funny S#IT! Until you stop and think about it of course, then it just makes me angry.

Tuesday, October 05, 2004 at 9:16:36 PM

Anyone see the vice presidential debates last night? Same old scare tactics that this administration has been using to get it's way from the beginning. Talk about accountability, why haven't the Saudi's been questioned for financing terrorism? Could it be that they're depositing MILLIONS of dollars into the Bush Family Trust every year? Talk about Financing Terrorism. HMPH

Last edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 at 5:57:41 PM

Wednesday, October 06, 2004 at 5:53:47 PM
OM

Well at least Cheney is admitting how bad his administration is these days, even if it's done in an unintended fashion. :P :P

Wednesday, October 06, 2004 at 6:32:16 PM

OM: ROTFLMMFAO!!!! Gotta love the veep coming up with yet another telling response:

Tnx Tally. There's more where that came from at http://www.geocities.com/francis_uy/halliburton.html .

Last edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 at 7:50:11 PM

Wednesday, October 06, 2004 at 7:49:57 PM

Hey, remember when america was a democracy?

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/100704H.shtml

Now we count on international observers to ensure that the citizens's voices get heard. For this, you can blame the republicans.

Four more years...just enough time to turn this country into a warm and fuzzy fascist theocracy...disgusting.

 

Thursday, October 07, 2004 at 1:04:23 AM

The major points of Chenney's arguments last night have complete unfolded.
The truth shall set us free.

Thursday, October 07, 2004 at 3:10:59 AM

DEEJ,

When you receive this kind of info that is of course leaning to the left you are going to think the way they do. I'm sure if I went to the Bush campaign and said you got anything about Kerry with the same writing style it would be exactly the same jargon only with Bush being the hero.

Here's the bottom line. McCain wasn't there, Pat Bucanan wasn't there, and we weren't there. Who was there? The guys who served with Kerry in Vietnam. Now are ALL of them a bunch of liars? Do you think that one of those guys who are supposedly telling a lie could sleep at night knowing full well that he's lying to the public? Don't you think that one of those who served with Kerry would break under the pressure of either money or conscious? Common DEEJ don't be so naive'.

You and I can only try to see what each of the candidates track records are and what they have done to serve the U.S. And it's people. I haven't seen Kerry do anything but complain, ever. That's all he does is complain but has a terrible track record as a Senator on his voting regardless of what he's voting for. First he was for the war then because it can help him now he's against it. Think about it. If Clinton was in office or Gore (thank God he's not) and they invaded Iraq no one would be saying shit. The only reason is because it's costly and that's all they can blame him for. Bush has made a few bad decisions but at least he never waivers in his decision.

As far as a man, I see Kerry as a person who will say anything to get a vote. It's clear that he is out for himself or he wouldn't have sold out his fellow soldiers in Vietnam to the N.Vietnamese. Read the book "unfit for command" and do some real research on this guy DEEJ he is scum of the earth and is out for political gain and power only. Kerry is scary.

Ps. If the book unfit for command was untrue he would be suing the author for slander but is Kerry? NO ! WHY? BECAUSE IT'S TRUE MY BROTHA.
Peace out.
I still love you man ha ha

Thursday, October 07, 2004 at 4:59:36 AM

Did you reread over the past pages before posting this?

Thursday, October 07, 2004 at 6:11:50 AM

Woody, take tally's advice...your tired ol dog don't hunt in this forum.

 

Thursday, October 07, 2004 at 7:22:29 AM

Woody is a right wing friend of mine. I was curious about his opinion so I e-mail him the link and asked him to respond. I don't think he took the time to read the entire thread... This thread is like a freaking novel. It would take a solid 4 hours to read the entire thread. I think he was just commenting on 44's initial post and the few posts that showed up on this page.

Woodster, LOL4U2 bro! Even though our opinions and beliefs are like night and day! I'll respond to your comments a bit later when I have more time...

Last edited: Thursday, October 07, 2004 at 3:38:57 PM

Thursday, October 07, 2004 at 3:36:33 PM

How do you run a presidential campaign when you have a record of dismal failure? Watch this movie to find out...

http://www.speakeasy.org/~joshudan/gopconstrm.mov

 

 

Thursday, October 07, 2004 at 11:17:20 PM

Hey guys,

Sorry for the absence - serious stuff going on at work....

Quick comment - what's up with Kerry in the polls? Maybe the "Deaniacs" having a negative effect?

Friday, October 08, 2004 at 7:33:29 AM

Wat u mean?

 

Friday, October 08, 2004 at 9:09:57 AM

Saw a poll on MSNBC earlier that had Bush @ 57 with 200M hits...

Went to go grab the URL and now I can't find the damn thing.

It kind of surprised me too - I've always considered MSNBC left-leaning.

EDIT @ 830A EDT

Found it!

Last edited: Friday, October 08, 2004 at 10:25:33 AM

Friday, October 08, 2004 at 10:07:43 AM

Friday, October 08, 2004 at 10:12:22 AM

I got an email from "George W. Bush" this morning and thought I would share it with you all.
Curriculum Vitae for George W. Bush:

 

PLEASE CONSIDER MY EXPERIENCE WHEN VOTING IN 2004
EXPERIENCE AND EDUCATION
- Law Enforcement: I was arrested in Kennebunkport, Maine, in 1976 for driving under the influence of alcohol. I pleaded guilty, paid a fine, and had my driver's license suspended for 30 days. My Texas driving record has been "lost" and is not available.
- Military: I joined the Texas Air National Guard and went AWOL. I refused to take a drug test or answer any questions about my drug use. By joining the Texas Air National Guard, I was able to avoid combat duty in Vietnam.
- College: I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. I was a cheerleader.
PAST WORK EXPERIENCE
- I ran for U.S. Congress and lost.
- I began my career in the oil business in Midland, Texas in 1975. I bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas. The company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock.
- I bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using taxpayer money.
- With the help of my father and our friends in the oil industry (including Enron CEO Ken Lay), I was elected governor of Texas.
ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS GOVERNOR OF TEXAS
- I changed Texas pollution laws to favor power and oil companies, making Texas the most polluted state in the Union. During my tenure, Houston replaced Los Angeles as the most smog-ridden city in America.
- I cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas treasury to the tune of billions in borrowed money.
- I set the record for the most executions by any governor in American history.
- With the help of my brother, the governor of Florida, and my father's appointments to the Supreme Court, I became President after losing by over 500,000 votes.
ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT
- I am the first President in U.S. History to enter office with a criminal record.
- I invaded and occupied two countries at a continuing cost of *over one billion dollars per week*. I spent the U.S. Surplus and effectively bankrupted the U.S. Treasury. I shattered the record for the largest annual deficit in U.S. History. I set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period. I set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period. I set the all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the U.S. Stock market. In my first year in office, over 2 million Americans lost their jobs and that trend continues every month.
- I'm proud that the members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in U.S. History. My "poorest millionaire," Condoleeza Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker named after her.
- I set the record for most campaign fundraising trips by a U.S. President. I am the all-time U.S. And world record-holder for receiving the most corporate campaign donations. One of my best friends, Kenneth Lay, presided over the largest corporate bankruptcy fraud in U.S. History, Enron. My political party used Enron private jets and corporate attorneys to assure my success with the U.S. Supreme Court during my election decision. I have protected my friends at Enron and Halliburton against investigation or prosecution. More time and money was spent investigating the Monica Lewinsky affair than has been spent investigating one of the biggest corporate rip-offs in history. I presided over the biggest energy crisis in U.S. History and refused to intervene when corruption involving the oil industry was revealed. I presided over the highest gasoline prices in U.S. History.
- I changed the U.S. Policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts. I appointed more convicted criminals to administration than any President in U.S. History.
- I created the Ministry of Homeland Security, the largest bureaucracy in the history of the United States government.
- I've broken more international treaties than any President in U.S. History. I am the first President in U.S. History to have the United Nations remove the U.S. From the Human Rights Commission. I withdrew the U.S. From the World Court of Law. I refused to allow inspector's access to U.S. "prisoners of war" detainees and thereby have refused to abide by the Geneva Convention. I am the first President in history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 U.S. Election).
- I set the record for fewest numbers of press conferences of any President since the advent of television. I set the all-time record for most days on vacation in any one-year period. After taking off the entire month of August, I presided over the worst security failure in U.S. History. I garnered the most sympathy for the U.S. After the World Trade Center attacks and less than a year later made the U.S. The most hated country in the world, the largest failure of diplomacy in world history. I have set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously protest me in public venues (15 million people), shattering the record for protests against any person in the history of mankind.
- I am the first President in U.S. History to order an unprovoked, preemptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation. I did so against the will of the United Nations, the majority of U.S. Citizens, and the world community. I have cut health care benefits for war veterans and support a cut in duty benefits for active duty troops and their families -- in wartime. In my State of the Union Address, I lied about our reasons for attacking Iraq and then blamed the lies on our British friends. I am the first President in history to have a majority of Europeans (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and security. I am supporting development of a nuclear "Tactical Bunker Buster," a WMD. I have so far failed to fulfill my pledge to bring Osama Bin Laden to justice. During the Iraq War and Occupation thousands of American troops were injured and killed. I did not have the time to attend any of the funerals for our fallen soldiers but I did have the time to attend more than 43 fundraising events of the Republican party.
RECORDS AND REFERENCES
- All records of my tenure as governor of Texas are now in my father's library, sealed and unavailable for public view.
- All records of SEC investigations into my insider trading and my bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.
- All records or minutes from meetings that I, or my Vice-President, attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public review.

 

Yes, please do consider his record when voting in 2004.

So, my question is this: if Bush was on The Apprentice would he get fired or would he be the Ken Jennings of corporate jerk TV?

Last edited: Friday, October 08, 2004 at 11:18:38 AM

Friday, October 08, 2004 at 11:04:52 AM

@ Ge0rge

Sounds like Michael Moore figured out how to use his Outlook....

Friday, October 08, 2004 at 8:38:38 PM

Saturday, October 09, 2004 at 3:10:01 AM

I think we need to establish a new defense contractor in Iraq... TallyBurton!

{WalMart free for over 24 months!}

Saturday, October 09, 2004 at 3:25:28 PM
OM

@Tally- ROFLMAO!! At that galactic debate link. That was great! Awesome soundbite editing. Hehe.

At least it made fun on both of them.

Saturday, October 09, 2004 at 7:09:03 PM

Electoral-vote.com
First time I can recall seeing the numbers in Kerry's favor.

Sunday, October 10, 2004 at 5:43:53 PM

The subtle rascism of "ruling for my base" is going to be bush's undoing. This, paired with republican attempts to disenfranchize minorities from voting, has inspired unregistered african americans to register, and wavering registered voters to become resolved to have their voices be heard.

 

Like Mrs. Marshall, many African-Americans are speaking about the fundamental act of voting this year with rekindled fervor, throwing a high-wattage backlight behind the issues and personalities of the campaign. The disqualified ballots, excluded voters and contentious ending of the 2000 election - when black precincts in Florida had votes rejected at three times the rate of white precincts - have formed a galvanizing memory. "We feel betrayed," said Rod Owens, 22, a student at Florida A&M University in Tallahassee. "We're looking for revenge."

Mr. Owens, active in a young Democrats group on his campus, put the matter more bluntly than most, but the determination to vote and make it count appears to cross boundaries of age, class and geography. African-Americans, for four decades the most reliable reservoir of Democratic support in presidential elections, now are also part of a torrent of new voter registrations in swing states like Florida, Pennsylvania and Ohio, and elsewhere

 


 

Here in Jacksonville, as the Oct. 4 registration deadline approached, new voters in black neighborhoods were signing up at a pace two-thirds faster than in 2000. In Philadelphia, election officials report the greatest surge of registrations in 21 years, resulting in more than 70,000 new voters added to the rolls since April, with growth heaviest in African-American sections. In Ohio, new registrations in Democratic strongholds, many of them African-American areas, have increased 250 percent over 2000.

 

People are rejecting this administrations neo-con vision of governance. I welcome democracy back. Lets send these skulking machiavelians (cheney, rove, card, wolfowitz, et al) back to shadows...

Kerry is rising in the polls. Looks like you apologists for the rich and privileged might just need to go back to your clinton days of resentful propaganda milling and personal attacks. Liberalism just might win the day again.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/101204W.shtml

 

Last edited: Monday, October 11, 2004 at 8:48:25 PM

Monday, October 11, 2004 at 8:47:40 PM
44

Anyone else wringing their hands with nervous anticipation? I'm not sure how I will cope if Bush wins. I'm going to go steal those Bush-Cheney signs off all my neighbors' front lawns again...makes me feel like I'm doing some good in the world.

Monday, October 11, 2004 at 9:24:58 PM

Hey all,

Have been in the background. Stinky's post about "Republican's disenfranchising" kind of got me stirred up...I'm kinda numb to all of the other stuff by now.

Check this out: Man Charged with Voter Fraud

This is the same group that was scamming down in Charleston a few weeks ago. The interesting thing? All of the absentee ballots were straight Dem. The really funny thing? This dumbass put one in for the mayor (trying to be a smartass). The really curious thing? There are now more registered voters in these two areas than there are residents. Before anyone cries "the GOP did it", y'all need to realize that this state is a lock, and has been one for several years.

All of this "disenfranchisement" argument will go away once the states are forced to go electronic.

As far as polls go(Zogby, Pew, etc) - I personally think they are all, left and right, bullshit. I fall back on the most interesting one I referenced earlier. Very interesting.....

EDIT

Well shit. The link doesn't work, so here's the text:

 

Florence man arrested, charged with voter fraud
By TRACI BRIDGES
Morning News
Thursday, October 7, 2004

A Florence man was arrested Wednesday amid allegations he used peoples names and personal information, including that of the mayor of Florence, on more than 1,000 voter registration forms and turned them in to the Florence County Voter Registration Office.

Terence Hines, 44, of 603 National Cemetery Road was taken into custody about 5 p.m. On charges of forgery and multiple counts of fraudulent registration or voting, 12th Circuit Solicitor Ed Clements III said.

Hines arrest was the culmination of a State Law Enforcement Division investigation that began soon after Hines turned in two large boxes containing more than 1,500 completed voter registration forms to the Florence County Voter Registration Office last Thursday.

There were a lot of forms there and from the beginning, something just didnt seem right about them, Clements said. Florence County election officials began checking some of the names and quickly found out that a lot of the people were already registered and the information on the forms didnt match what was on the records, and several other people whose names were on these forms were deceased. None of the information added up.

The name and address on one of the forms happened to belong to Florence Mayor Frank Willis, which gave officials even more cause for suspicion.

Yeah, a registration form for Frank Willis immediately sent up a red flag, Florence County Voter Registration and Elections Director Russell Barrett said, chuckling. We were pretty sure that the mayor was already a registered voter and had been for some time.

A check of voter registration records confirmed officials suspicions and revealed that although Willis name and address matched records, nothing else on the recently submitted form was correct.

Just to make sure there was no mistake, officials contacted Willis.

I was just dumfounded when the lady from voter registration called, especially when she told me that what really alerted them to the whole thing was the fact this guy used my name, Willis said.

She started reading the information on the form to me, and the name and address were right, but that was it, Willis said. Everything else - the Social Security number, the phone number, the birth date - all of it was complete fiction. The guy had me born in 1982 - knocked 30 years off my age for me. The more I thought about it, the more I just couldnt believe anyone would be stupid enough to use my name of all names on a fictitious voter registration form.

After talking with Willis and confirming that information on almost all of the forms in the two boxes was either fake or wrong, election officials contacted SLED, which in turn contacted Clements.

According to the arrest affidavit provided by SLED, Hines was employed by the South Carolina Progressive Network, an affiliate partner organization for Americas Families United, based in Washington, D.C.

The S.C. Progressive Networks Web site describes the organization as a broad-based coalition of advocacy groups and individual activists from across the state who have joined forces to promote social and economic change in South Carolina. Created in 1995 as a tool to engage ordinary citizens in their communities and in their government, the network at its core has been about connecting people to each other and to resources designed to leverage the work of grassroots activists and organizations, according to the site.

The Web site also promotes the Networks Missing Voter Project, proclaiming, The Networks Missing Voter Project has been funded to do nonpartisan voter registration across the state. We can pay your organization $3 for every registration gathered at a residence, or $2 for nonresidential cards.

A message left by the Morning News at the S.C. Progressive Network headquarters in Columbia was not returned Wednesday.

However, Angela Manso, deputy director and chief of staff of Americas Families United, said regardless of what authorities were led to believe, her organization is in no way affiliated with Hines or the S.C. Progressive Network.

Thats not right at all, Manso said when told of her organizations reported affiliation with the S.C. Progressive Network. We do not have any employees in the state of South Carolina, and no one here has even heard of the South Carolina Progressive Network.

Clements said authorities are still sorting through Hines alleged connections to organizations but emphasized that any attempt to defraud the voting process is a threat to the entire democratic process.

If its what it looks like at this point, he was being paid to turn in registered voters. We dont know if this was a partisan group or what kind of group was paying him, he said. But I do have great concern about this type of arrangement and what kind of measures are in place as far as accountability goes. Regardless, there are a lot of questions to be answered, because if this is what it seems to be, its a horrible breach of public trust.

Election officials are doing everything they can to make sure that any of the forms that were legitimately filled out by potential voters wishing to register are processed as so. But Clements said the chance that one of those forms might slip through the cracks is another issue of grave concern.

Some of these forms could have actually been filled out by people who now think theyre registered and might end up going to the polls only to find out they arent, Clements said. Its a horrible, horrible situation that could end up disenfranchising voters.

According to the S.C. Code of Laws, it is unlawful for a person to fraudulently procure the registration of a name on the books of voter registration; offer or attempt to vote that name; offer or attempt to vote under any false pretense as to circumstances affecting his qualifications to vote; or aid, counsel or abet another in fraudulent registration or fraudulent offer or attempt to vote.

A person convicted of fraudulent registration or voting faces a possible sentence of up to one year in jail and a monetary fine per count. A person convicted of forgery faces a maximum of three years in prison per count.

Let us know what you think of this story | Send us a letter to the editor

This story can be found at: http://www.morningnewsonline.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=FMN%2FMGArticle%2FFMN_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031778394068&path=!news!archive[/quote]

Out of town for the rest of the week - y'all don't hurt yourselves.

Last edited: Monday, October 11, 2004 at 11:05:27 PM

Monday, October 11, 2004 at 11:04:01 PM

Chief: funny article...but still, this doesn't counter my point...the article is an example of one (probably deranged) individual trying to perpetrate voter fraud...whats happening in florida is that powerful and influential people are using their clout to disenfranchise voters. This is vastly worse than a case of voter fraud, doncha think?

 

Monday, October 11, 2004 at 11:30:34 PM

The mountains of condemnation grow:

 

Expert: Bush is Disaster
By Dave Janoski
The Times Leader

Saturday 09 October 2004

Scranton - For a Nobel Prize-winning economist who regularly expounds on "information assymetries," "Pareto inefficiencies" and "sovereign debt," Joseph Stiglitz has a surprisingly concise and blunt take on the state of the U.S. Economy.

"Bush is to blame," the Columbia University professor concluded in an interview Friday at the University of Scranton.

Stiglitz, a former member of President Bill Clinton's Council of Economic Advisors and former chief economist for the World Bank, was scheduled to speak at the university Friday on the competing economic visions of the two candidates for president. Stiglitz has given similar talks at other universities, driven by what he called the Bush administration's "phenomenally bad" stewardship of the U.S. Economy.

From the times leader republished in truthout.com

 

And this morsel:

 

Open Letter to President George W. Bush
openlettertothepresident.org

Monday 04 October 2004

Dear Mr. President:

As professors of economics and business, we are concerned that U.S. Economic policy has taken a dangerous turn under your stewardship. Nearly every major economic indicator has deteriorated since you took office in January 2001. Real GDP growth during your term is the lowest of any presidential term in recent memory. Total non-farm employment has contracted and the unemployment rate has increased. Bankruptcies are up sharply, as is our dependence on foreign capital to finance an exploding current account deficit. All three major stock indexes are lower now than at the time of your inauguration. The percentage of Americans in poverty has increased, real median income has declined, and income inequality has grown.

From same souce...

 

Scroll down and look at the names of the signatories....amazing.

 

Tuesday, October 12, 2004 at 12:29:13 AM

http://www.goingupriver.com/index.html
I'm double posting this.

Tuesday, October 12, 2004 at 7:26:34 PM

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/11/opinion/main648665.shtml

The sinclair broadcasting group, the same guys who wouldn't let it's stations carry ted koepples tribute to the americans killed in iraq, are now airing a "documentary" on its sixty channels which attacks kerry.

And some of you still believe the myth of the "liberal media."

 

Tuesday, October 12, 2004 at 7:59:35 PM

@ Tally

"Going Upriver: The Long of John Kerry".....

It wasn't half as long for Kerry as it was for McCain!

Regarding the Sinclair group - does anyone not see a similarity between that and Moore's movie?

As far as Sinclair's actions refuting "liberal media" - they're affiliates. The article - from CBS - is so obviously liberally slanted, all I can say is "thanks for making my point."

:)

Tuesday, October 12, 2004 at 10:13:00 PM

Chief, all you claims are put in the form of negative interrogatives.
Instead of passively making an asserting by asking us what it isn't, why don't you make the point yourself and tell us what it is, because no, I don't use your eyes to see.

Appeals to common belief are requests for disagreement.

"It wasn't half as long for Kerry as it was for McCain!"
Garbage. McCain isn't running.

Tuesday, October 12, 2004 at 10:53:46 PM

Not necessarily. Kerry made Vietnam an issue when he "reported for duty" in Boston. I am simply pointing out the fact that Kerry was in Vietnam for 4 mos.; McCain, several years - as a POW (I'm leaving plenty unsaid here). It's pretty simple...why does this anger Democrats when I do this? All I am doing is pointing out the facts - nothing else.

All I did was make the statement - you made the connection.

Tuesday, October 12, 2004 at 11:32:21 PM

Chief: I do see a parallel to moore's documentary...the disney corp tried to supress its distribution to prevent the its criticism of a pro-business president. Here the sinclair group is using its power to spread an attackumentary to attempt to discredit the challenger of this pro-business president. That is the power of big media...they control the message. You see "liberalism" in the slant of the writing. You delve in the art of interpretation. What doesn't require such rigorous analysis and guess work is the interpretation of the leanings of sinclair and disney. They scream bias.

You jumped to another conclussion....that is... Moore's documentary is the equivalent of this documentary. I haven't seen this kerry doc, so I can't say. The sinclair group say that this is "news." not an attack. We'll see. If you want to see moore's, you got to part with your change, and go see it in a theater....which gives the whole thing an atmosphere of "entertainment." masquerading this kerry documentary as news is something different.

 

Tuesday, October 12, 2004 at 11:50:43 PM

Regarding vietnam...i think kerry makes it an issue because your hero GW Bush makes, and has made the concept of character an issue. What better way to expose GW's character, then to compare Kerry and GW's response and actions during a time of national crisis? The issue isn't how much Kerry bled, but how much blow and vodka did GW consume while his influential friends and family kept him out of harm's way...

Bush opened this door...

 

Tuesday, October 12, 2004 at 11:54:09 PM

"why does this anger Democrats when I do this? All I am doing is pointing out the facts - nothing else."
Facts? Show me facts. Where are these facts. Stink nails it, but he doesn't go far enough, and if I didn't have many other things to do, I'd explain to you why I completely disagree with you again.
This is interesting though, as a study in psychology. When I heard about this sinclair thing, the first thing I thought of was the ted koppel / sinclair spat about his reading names, and I compared the two events, both of which had sinclair as main character, call it pro or antagonist.
In a sense, what you're doing is very George W, isn't it? Decontextualizing and using as evidence to prove an unrelated point.
This is CNN's poll tonight:
Do you think Sinclair Broadcasting's plan to air an anti-Kerry documentary is a violation of equal time laws?
Sure. We can change the channel, but the airwaves, believe it or not, are public, and the 3 minutes spend discussing one political cat has to be spent later on the other.
Assuming that the movie is NOT news and that it IS propaganda, will Kerry get his 90 minutes?
Probably not, thus it is a hard argument that this isn't just a case of big business weighing in.

How does this relate to Moore's movie? It doesn't. Moore asked people to drop 10 bone to go see his flick, and they did. Theatres are not public places.
___
The article - from CBS - is so obviously liberally slanted, all I can say is "thanks for making my point."
- Yeah dude, and if you take a look at the link, you'll notice that it says "opinion."
What point was it that you were making?

From hardblogger:
The film attacks Kerry for his anti-war activism after he returned home from Vietnam more than 35 years ago.  Mark Hyman, a spokesman for Sinclair, says "the documentary is just part of a special news event that we're putting together." Actually, it's not a news event.  The film was released, (and picked apart) at a press conference five weeks ago.

Some of my colleagues have made an issue out of Sinclair's partisan history.  97 percent of their political contributions have gone to Republicans, they sent a team to Iraq to find the "good news" the rest of the media wasn't reporting, and etc.

But my issue with Sinclair is in regards to this film... And Sinclair's intention to run the film "as is."  Without a major overhaul, this film should be rejected... And it has to do with journalism's requirement that you "get the facts right."  

"Stolen Honor" has several prominent factual errors:  First, former America POWs are quoted on camera as saying "we stayed two more years because of the demonstrators like Fonda and Kerry... I figure they owe us two years."   I have no doubt that some POW's feel that way.  But the fact is, the war stopped in 1973 when the Nixon administration negotiated an end.  History shows it was the lack of a settlement before then, not the protests, that kept the North Vietnamese fighting. 

Secondly, part of John Kerry's testimony as depicted in the film starts in mid-sentence.  "They cut off ears, limbs, heads..."  This editing makes it seem that John Kerry was making the allegations, when the sentence actually begins with Kerry saying, "They said they..."  The difference is crucial.  In reality, as opposed to this film, John Kerry always attributed those dramatic allegations to the testimony of other US soldiers.  

Thirdly, the film only features POWs who say John Kerry's name was invoked by north Vietnamese prison guards.  But we've spoken to dozens of POWs who spent years in Vietnamese prison camps and say they never heard John Kerry's name mentioned once. 
____

Again: Facts?

The remainder of the article:

Balance requires these opposing voices be included in a "journalistic film."  But, alas, this isn't journalism that Sinclair is practicing.

Some of you might be thinking, "Well, wait a second, Michael Moore splashed his anti-Bush film in movie theaters across the country."  That's true.  But there is a huge difference between forcing voters to buy a ticket to watch a partisan film... And showing something partisan over the free television airwaves.  If Sinclair wants to sponsor "Stolen Honor" in movie theaters across the country, more power to them.  But television stations are a different matter regardless of your political leanings.  Because remember, if it is Sinclair and "Stolen Honor" this Sunday, would you be comfortable with CBS and "Fahrenheit 9/11" next Sunday? 

 

Wednesday, October 13, 2004 at 3:47:52 AM

Read this despicable filth and defend them. It's a dare.

 

Most recently, this company has gained notoriety by ordering its 62 local stations to broadcast an anti-Kerry film a few days before the November 2, 2004 general election. Those 62 stations include affiliates of all six major commercial broadcast networks in Florida, Ohio, Wisconsin, Nevada and Pennsylvania. The broadcast will preempt normal prime-time programming on those outlets. Sinclair vice president Mark Hyman said on a CNN interview that John Kerry and the Democrats are like "holocaust deniers" and that if the Sinclair stunt is an "in-kind donation to George Bush" then "every suicide bomb that goes off in Iraq is an in-kind donation to John Kerry."

 


http://www.dkosopedia.com/index.php/Sinclair_Broadcast_Group

Wednesday, October 13, 2004 at 4:02:02 AM

Well put tally.

 

 

Wednesday, October 13, 2004 at 7:41:25 AM

 

 


Secondly, part of John Kerry's testimony as depicted in the film starts in mid-sentence. "They cut off ears, limbs, heads..." This editing makes it seem that John Kerry was making the allegations, when the sentence actually begins with Kerry saying, "They said they

 

Oh my, he knew how to cover his ass way back then ;)

Wednesday, October 13, 2004 at 3:29:58 PM

@ Tally

Is that article suggesting that Sinclair is accusing the DNC of being anti-Semitic? (I'll respond to the other post when I get home tonight - I don't have the time to do that much typing at work - ;) ).

Thursday, October 14, 2004 at 4:07:55 PM

HEY GUYS -

For the life of me I CANNOT figure this poll out !

Thursday, October 14, 2004 at 4:09:43 PM
OM

Chief, what is there to figure out?

This is what it says right under the poll:

 

Not a scientifically valid survey.

 

Seems self explanatory to me.

Thursday, October 14, 2004 at 4:48:06 PM
OM

LOL! Now, why doesn't this surprise me one bit:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/14/bush.nra.ap/index.html

Disgusting.

Thursday, October 14, 2004 at 5:53:29 PM

C'mon, chant it with me:
"Perp - WALK!"
"Perp - WALK!"
"Perp - WALK!"
"Perp - WALK!"
"Perp - WALK!"
Oooo, or better yet (mind yer greasy nose on the asphalt):
"Frog - MARCH!"
"Frog - MARCH!"
"Frog - MARCH!"
"Frog - MARCH!"
"Frog - MARCH!"

Last edited: Friday, October 15, 2004 at 6:05:47 PM

Friday, October 15, 2004 at 6:01:33 PM

Wishful thinking I'm afraid, 44.

 

Friday, October 15, 2004 at 8:30:46 PM

Duh....uh....duh....er......what a moron.

 

Saturday, October 16, 2004 at 8:15:56 AM
44

"It is really important for the world to know the truth about Saddam Hussein. The truth about his evil intentions. The truth about his evil nature. The truth about his weapons programs. And, you're truth finders."

Yeah, they found the truth alright.

How much would it suck to be sitting over there, a reservist on a second call up, supposed to have been home months ago, not allowed to leave, with friends dying...and then to hear your commander in chief come on the screen, totally unprepared to speak, and blab at you about air conditioning in Texas. I think I might shoot myself.

Saturday, October 16, 2004 at 8:55:36 AM
44

John O'Neill should hang his head in shame.

Sunday, October 17, 2004 at 9:00:15 AM

http://www.dfw.com/mld/startelegram/news/columnists/molly_ivins/9936240.htm

Posted on Sun, Oct. 17, 2004
Fascism any day now?

By Molly Ivins

Creators Syndicate

Now is the time for all good men -- and women -- to race to the aid of their country. Liberals and libertarians, unite! The Sinclair Broadcasting Group has moved this election into the realm of creeping fascism, state propaganda, Big Brother and brainwashing.

What, me hyperbole?

This is so simple -- how would you conservatives feel if NBC, CBS or ABC decided to pre-empt prime-time programming a week before the election to air Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11 -- and then announced, "But we've offered President Bush a chance to reply"?

Sinclair also has offered Bush the inestimable service of diverting attention from his record and is using our publicly owned airwaves to do it.

For Sinclair's lobbyist and on-air editorialist Mark Hyman to claim that this long attack ad (Stolen Honor: Wounds That Never Heal) is "news" is ludicrous -- almost as strained as his claim that those who disagree are like "Holocaust deniers."

Sinclair is the perfect example of what's wrong with the concentration of ownership in media: Just a few companies now own almost all the major information outlets. Sinclair is the largest owner of local TV stations in the nation. It controls 62 stations in 39 markets and reaches at least 25 percent of Americans every day, all day.

When Sinclair bought a second station in Pittsburgh, it sold its existing station to the first station's manager, an employee of Sinclair, on favorable terms and then proceeded to operate both.

It repeated this trick at least twice and then used a new one: The president of Sinclair had his mother "buy" the new station. The new corporation's stock was 70 percent owned by his mother and the same station manager, who then transferred control of these stations to Sinclair.

Sinclair's management has contributed hundreds of thousands of dollars almost entirely to Republicans (97 percent this year) as it has continued to lobby for looser ownership rules. The Bush administration is pushing aggressively to remove those same rules.

The producer of the alleged "documentary," which is actually just a very long Swift Boat Liars ad, makes the same arguments and features some of the same people as the thoroughly discredited short ads.

Carlton Sherwood, the ad's producer, was part of a Gannett team that won the Pulitzer Prize for investigative reporting in 1980, but he has since moved far to the right and away from anything resembling actual journalism.

In 1986, he joined The Washington Times, a right-wing daily owned by the Rev. Sun Myung Moon. In 1991, he wrote the book Inquisition: The Persecution and Prosecution of the Reverend Sun Myung Moon, defending the self-described "Son of God."

Sherwood then went to work for then-Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Ridge, now homeland security director for Bush.

I have not seen Sherwood's ad. I am relying on press reports that its central thesis is that John Kerry's congressional testimony in 1971 prolonged the Vietnam War.

Sure, the North Vietnamese would have surrendered long before they never did if it hadn't have been for Kerry. Look, 14,000 more Americans died after his testimony -- how many would it take to make that war anything other than a mistaken horror?

The ad also alleges that Kerry impugned the good names of all those who served in Vietnam. That is not only false but malicious.

I heard his testimony at the time and have reviewed it since during this campaign. It is honorable and patriotic. I am also familiar with the Winter Soldier hearings on which his testimony was partly based, and they were just as he reported.

I am sick of the right wing claiming patriotism as its exclusive purview. No one serves this country well who blindly supports misbegotten wars in the name of patriotism.

The right to dissent is one of the founding principles of this country and is in itself a high form of patriotism. What you owe your country is your best evaluation of whether we are or are not going in the right direction.

As Huey P. Long once said, "Sure we'll have fascism in America, but it'll come disguised as 100 percent Americanism."

{WalMart free for over 24 months!}

Sunday, October 17, 2004 at 6:15:57 PM

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