Anyone paying attention to this bullsh%t? Check this out:

A group of far-right Bush allies released an ugly and outrageous ad which claims that John Kerry faked his injuries, betrayed his troops, and "dishonored his country" in Vietnam. The ad features people who say "I served with John Kerry" (although they didn't) and who make numerous provably false accusations about Kerry's war record. It's one of the most vile tactics seen yet in Bush's ferociously negative campaign.

The "Swift Boat" ad is so far beyond the pale that even Senator John McCain, a Bush supporter, spoke out about it, calling it "dishonest and dishonorable." Yet despite Senator McCain's request that President Bush "specifically condemn" the ad, Bush refuses to say anything about it.

It's clear that the ad continues the tradition of Bush campaign dirty tricks. In a recent interview, Senator McCain noted that the ad "was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me" in 2000. McCain was referring to a vicious smear campaign -- which included race-baiting allegations that he had a black child our of wedlock -- run by close Bush allies in 2000. In fact, the same firm that ran some of the anti-McCain ads in 2000 produced the "Swift Boat" ad. And although the group claims to be independent of the Republican party, the group's funding mostly comes from a longtime Bush supporter who gave over $20,000 to his campaigns for Texas governor. Further, today it was announced that one of the subjects in the ad is a member of the Bush-Cheney campaign's veterans steering committee.

The "Swift Boat" campaign is a classical political hit job. But even before the ad went on the air, the Washington Post ran a piece discussing how President Bush is running the most negative presidential campaign in U.S. History. In an article titled "From Bush, Unprecedented Negativity," the Post quotes an expert who says that "there is more attack now on the Bush side against Kerry than you've historically had in the general-election period against either candidate."

Discussing the "Swift Boat" ad, Senator John McCain said, "I deplore this kind of politics." Nebraska Governor Mike Johanns (R) called the ad "trash" and even Pat Buchanan said "not a single charge is substantiated... I think the ad is wrong." But George Bush won't condemn it.

Jim Rassman, a Republican veteran who served under Kerry, recently wrote an opinion piece in the Wall Street Journal. He told the story of how Kerry saved his life. And he concluded with these words on the "Swift Boat" veterans: "[W]hen the noise and fog of their distortions and lies have cleared, a man who volunteered to serve his country, a man who showed up for duty when his country called, a man to whom the United States Navy awarded a Silver Star, a Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts, will stand tall and proud. Ultimately, the American people will judge these Swift Boat Veterans for Bush and their accusations. Americans are tired of smear campaigns against those who volunteered to wear the uniform.

Swift Boat Veterans for Bush should hang their heads in shame.

Yep. Some good ideas in that article...

If you can't win an election through fear, you can always do this
aren't you glad we live in a "democracy?"

Hey Stinky, I love you bro, but that editorial is all about assumptions based on assumptions.

I guess it does kinda give some insight into what is at the core of a lot of Democrat's anger at Bush though...they're all convinced that somehow Bush stole the 2000 election and it is just, as we say in SC, "stuck in their craw".

Chief...what part of bi-partisan commision threw you off?

"many of the act's key provisions have not been implemented..." is a statement of fact.

I find it curious that you appear to find what happened in florida acceptable. 1000s of voters were unable or unsuccessful to register their votes. It is a statement of fact that kathryn harris and the supreme court intervened. Not exactly the way democracy is supposed to work.

This shouldn't be 'democrat's anger.' this concerns everyone who values democracy.

Last edited: Monday, September 27, 2004 at 11:31:27 PM

I'm not sure that Bush stole the election, but I am 100% convinced that the Supreme Court's decision in Gore v. Bush was politically motivated. And, yes, I understand the implications of that statement.

Here's the best read I've ever encountered on the 2000 election:

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?I=20010205&s=bugliosi

Stink, I'm anxious to hear your reaction after reading.

Fo fo...can't that link appears to be dead...any ideas?

@ stinky

Point taken. I guess my attention span was still on the Lebanese......

While I obviously don't have an issue with the overall result of the Florida vote, I do find it unacceptable that it is apparent that their voting system is run akin to a Tijuana whorehouse.

I think that, overall, there were procedures in place (the ones that your article make reference to) that were followed...after the dust was blown off of them. I don't think the folks that put that in place (FL legislature?) ever really thought about the ramifications of putting them into practice.

@ 44

I would have to say I agree with that statement...it certainly appears that way. I can't remember - why were (Gladys Knight &) the Supremes drawn into that anyway? Can anyone remember who "lawyer'd up" first?

Last edited: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 9:35:58 PM

Tijuana whorehouse! Lol...

Ps..good analysis on those lebanese bush farmers...but isn't that some kind of profiling?

"I do find it unacceptable that it is apparent that their voting system is run akin to a Tijuana whorehouse."
Which part of the Secretary of State being a campaign worker for the winning candidate bothers you?
Whose whore house is it?
[ see: disenfranchised minorities , the film Unprecendeted , FHP and FREAKING FBI AGENTS harrassing black get out the vote leaders , blah blah blah ]
[ anticipage : alleged similar misbehaviour in blue states by blue state officials ]
[ response : figure out where the buck stops ]

There's a wicked good article in the current gq.
PS. Google does funny things.
GOOGLE: FAILURE, link 1 or 2.

Last edited: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 at 5:03:13 AM

@Stink

Sorry for the dead link. Try going to http://www.thenation.com/

...and then do an internal site search (top right hand corner) for the word: bugliosi

Read his article titled "None Dare Call it Treason"

@Tally

This is near-required reading for you as well.

@Chief

Please first tell me why it matters "who lawyer'ed up first" and then, if well justified, I'll do some homework.

Hello busy harvesting

Clinton was a democrat that moved to the right

Bush is a rep moved to the left compashionate conservative = don't tax and spend

I need Newt Gingritch

T raider

Thanks stinky - I try!

@ fo fo

My question was completely serious - I can't remember the exact details of what happened. I think it matters because, IMO, if Gore's campaign was the first to file suit about all of this, and then lost, it kinda negates the "Bush stole the elction" statement.

I have been trying to do a little bit of research on this throughtout the work day, and am not finished...but thought I would share this two comments I found:

Yes, I know Boortz is a conservative talk show host, but his statements do address legitimate concerns. ALLOWING NON-CITIZENS TO VOTE? WTF??

" if Gore's campaign was the first to file suit about all of this, and then lost, it kinda negates the "Bush stole the elction" statement. "
no it doesn't. Care to rationalize?

Last edited: Thursday, September 30, 2004 at 3:34:34 AM

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around traiders comment that bush has moved to the left...does that make any sense to any of you? Don't tax and spend? I don't get it...

Chief..i know...old people are stupid. Right? Screw them if they can't figure it out. Stupid old people don't deserve to vote. Good point.

Yea Stinky, it makes no sense at all. I was going to comment on it, but I don't even know what to say to something like that. Perhaps he's referring to how Bush campaigned for the 2000 election? He said alot of things back then but went in the completely reverse direction since. Perhaps.

Heh, quoting a conservative talking head from the media, thats research?

Damn all those drug addicts that got busted and did time say back in the 70's. Why should they have the right to vote anyway?

Tell it to Betty Ford.

Az

Last edited: Thursday, September 30, 2004 at 3:15:32 PM

Chief, the justices in charge of those proceedings was and still are good close personal friends of the Bush family. I have no doubt in my mind that they were bias. Gore should've been president... The people chose Gore, the supreme court chose Bush. Plain and simple...

Had Gore been presidant as he should've been, there's a chance that 9/11 would've never happend. I said it before, I say it again... If you want to be responsible for WW3, vote for Bush! If you want justice for what happened on 9/11, vote for Kerry. Choice is yours...

Last edited: Thursday, September 30, 2004 at 4:55:33 PM

Hate to say it, but I couldn't agree more. I'll be watching the debate tonight in hopes that Bush will get tongue-tied. But, yeesh man, whassup with all these rules? Can anyone inform me if there will be a toe-to-toe in the future?

http://mediamatters.org/static/audio/limbaugh-20040929.mp3
mmm, spokesmen.

Whoa - although I was trying to stir the debate pot, my comments seem to have been taken out of context....I'll clarify after the debate.

Fro, should I start making your bed now or do you want to wait until the draft?

Last edited: Thursday, September 30, 2004 at 8:21:01 PM

Can we vote for the smart guy now?

I agree with you SteAlth in that there might have been a chance , but I think it still would have happened with Gore in office. After all, the basement bombing at the WTC was during the beginning of Clinton's first term. And I believe the theory that it takes a number of years for these kind of attacks to be planned.

Chief: OM was right about that list being tongue-in-cheek. Most of those are spin and selected facts taken out of context and placed together so as to construct a one-sided argument against someone. It would be a good idea to learn how to recognize these sorts of attacks. One-liners are very seldom the entire story, and sometimes they're outright crap. (After seeing who you're quoting, you really should pick up a mirror.) I really was looking forward to reading your point-by-point responses, but your first one pretty much told me it wasn't worth it:

Was that simply a flippant, non-thinking response or did you really intend to inject some kind of racist, denegrating tone?

If you want to know more about Dick Cheney et al.'s connections to Osama, Iraq, etc. Go to this website: http://www.geocities.com/francis_uy/halliburton.html . Yes, it's posted by someone that could garner a conspiracy-theorist label, but the nice thing about this site, for those looking for backup instead of unfounded "assumptions based on assumptions", is that each and every argument is linked to source stories or documents. Beautiful. Hours of reading pleasure. Enjoy!

Last edited: Friday, October 01, 2004 at 4:40:54 PM

A-mazing
No, the aliens haven't landed. Believe it or not, this a corn field in Utah that has been made into a complicated maze, cut into the images of President Bush and White House hopeful, Senator John Kerry.

The words, "Believe in America" appear at the top and bottom.

Sorry guys I just couldnt resist posting it!!!

Last edited: Friday, October 01, 2004 at 6:56:57 PM

The only thing that can be guaranteed with Gore in office is that Condi Rice doesn't disgegard that infamous memo aka BIG FREAKING WARNING.
Your historical road-fork starts there.

You're right about the Rice thing Tally... But I think the historic road fork was when Fox news prematurly announced Florida to Bush when everyone else was announcing it to Gore.

Cool crops...

@ George

It would of happend no matter who was president. Bush, Gore, or even Michael Jackson. Al Quida (is that how u spell it?) must of planned the attack for years before the actual date. It had to be planned while Clinton was in office. You can't just carry out such a huge attack on a high security country with one hour of planning.

Last edited: Friday, October 01, 2004 at 10:07:26 PM

Panzer, you're probably right. But it is absolutely impossible to say that beyond any shadow of a doubt. Condalisa Rice disregarded vital information and documents which warned of the September 11th attacks. If Gore was president, someone else would've had her job. There is absolutely no way to say for certain that person would've made the same decisions she did. Bottom line... There is a chance that 9/11 would be looked at as just another day in our minds if Gore was president.

Another certain fact is that 2 million Americans would still be employed today! Bush came in and messed up all the great things that Clinton did for our economy then said it was doomed to fail before he took office. What a load of crap!

Last edited: Friday, October 01, 2004 at 10:25:59 PM

OK. It's to late for Gore, so lets stop complaining about the past and look towards the future. Each canidate has there positives and negatives for everyone. No one will ever be the perfect president in my mind. I would like to hear some serious opinions about what is right and wrong about each person. I have had enough about "Kerry's Waffles" and Bush's problems, just because some people say something doesn't mean you have to go with it. Just because Bush has had a few problems doesn't mean you have to act like he is the devil of all presidents. Lets hear some of people's real feelings. No more crap.

" Just because Bush has had a few problems... "
eh, please refer to pages 1-15 :).
BTW panzer, the fact that it happened doesn't mean avoiding it was inevitable.

Last edited: Friday, October 01, 2004 at 11:44:13 PM

@ Stealth

The economy was in the shitter before Jan 2001. Economic policy takes months and years to take hold and have an effect. Clinton inherited a kick ass economy from REAGAN (yes - Reagan, not George HW Bush) - he was smart enough to realize what he had and just left it alone. Clinton may have been "Slick Willy", but he was certainly no dummy.

RE 9/11

The utter notion that 9/11 could have been prevented is Monday morning quarterbacking - coulda, woulda, shoulda. It's a load of shit. The point you're reffering to, ala Michael moore's infamous 2 hour political ad, was thoroughly deconstructed earlier in this thread, and elsewhere on the 'net.

(Back to reading....)

Chief, agreed. Trying to extrapolate any alternate universal timeline, a la "if so and so were in office" is quite impossible. There's just no possible way we will ever know what would have happened if we had a different president on September the 11th, 2001. However, I don't think its disputable that the intel community knew 'something' was going to happen 'sometime', and alerted Bush and others. That much is common knowledge. I think it's how seriously he took the threat, or lack thereof that pisses some people off.

Concerning Reagan, you're correct. I'll happily concede that Ronny was a great president. I doubt you'll run across many who would disagree with that. If all Republicans were like him, I might call that party my own.

Concerning economy: yes the economy was starting to nose dive before GW took office. Truth is, recession / inflation happens like the tide coming in / out. The best the president can do is make adjustments that will decrease the impact of each to the economy. The trouble I have with Bush is that he really did nothing to help it the past 4 years. In fact, in general it got worse. If it's getting a little better right now, it isn't because of anything he did. It's because it's simply time for the tide to change.

I don't understand how one powerful person's blatant neglect of a piece of strong evidence predicting an event that came to pass means that discussion about that neglect is null. It's impossible to say definitively what would or what not have happened. It's not impossible to say that it may *not* have happened. If my dog circles the front door and I do nothing while it craps, am I to say that this crap was inevitable and that no one else could have prevented it?
OM has it right.
I can't find where this point was deconstructed. I cannot recall it coming up earlier.
If Clinton was smart enough to leave a healthy econonmy alone, why wasn't Bush smart enough to try and fix a sick one?

Last edited: Saturday, October 02, 2004 at 7:38:00 PM

I dunno...still trying to figure out how reagan's voodoo economics went dormant through four years of g h bush...

9/11 wasn't inevitable...we weren't prepared as a nation to prevent it though, regardless of who was president. Iraq was completely avoidable however.

Me? I hated reagan...i'll make you a list sometime why. But I respected him. More than I can say for this clown...i really think he is a clown...that isn't the partisan in me...that's the part of me that hates stupid people. Only thing I hate more than stupid people is a person who will play on people's emotions to manipulate them. If there's one thing I hate more than that in a person, its when someone says we can't even discuss something because of how it will be perceived by others....

So, yeah....i effing hate this guy....on a personal level.

Why reinvent the wheel:

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0607-09.htm

Last edited: Monday, October 04, 2004 at 12:32:46 AM

Which dead horse will he try to ride next?

http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/cartoons/horses/

Brilliant.

Uh oh...i guess this is what happens when you rule for your base, and only your base...

Low income and minority groups spells trouble for W...

The thing is...these people haven't been taken into account by the pollsters...and they haven't been taken into account when the figures are published every week...these folks could make a difference, probably will make a difference. It looks like george W was kinda good for democracy after all. As a reaction against his warm and fuzzy fascism, people who don't normally bother to vote are scared shitless of the guy and will be coming out in droves to hasten his speedy departure....funny.

Last edited: Monday, October 04, 2004 at 8:00:25 PM

Did someone mention clowns?

This was circulated four years ago, so there are a few more logos you could add on there to update things a bit.

Oh, and not to be outdone by CBS, Fox flexes their fair and balancedness: http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/politics/2826011 .

And more Carlysle Group goodies: Power good, publicity bad. How about "knowledge is power"? Granted, it's 48 minutes long, but I think it's worth the time, no matter who you're voting for.

Last edited: Monday, October 04, 2004 at 9:18:52 PM

@Chief

BULL SHIT!!!

Regan (God rest his soul) was the worse thing that every happened to the US economy! That was greatly in part due to the cold war, but still... Reagan left us on the verge of a depression with the largest National Debt in not just the history of the US, but the History of the entire WORLD!!! By Clinton got done cleaning up his mess, our economy was in a surplus! Clinton and Gore were and still are Economic GODS!!! Anyone who believes otherwise is either stupid, ignorant, or both...

9/11, there is absolutely NO possible way to say the attacks would not have been prevented if Al Gore was in office. That is a physical impossibility!

Bush is a freaking moron and is on the path of starting a third world war! For the sake of humanity, VOTE FOR KERRY!!!

Last edited: Monday, October 04, 2004 at 9:46:23 PM

@ OM

Agreed - great point on the tide thing. Funny how we all (US citizens and a certain Democratic Presidential nominee) forget how little the President has to do with the economic direction.

@ DEEJ

So you're saying that GHW Bush was responsible for the econmony of Jan 1992? 'Cause I can sure as hell tell you the only thing Clinton had to do with it was taking the credit.........

I need to clarify something here - I am basing this on the fact that the industry I was in at the time (transportation) was a "grassroots" industry. It's the first to feel the pain and the first to gather the gain of the economy. Econmy slows down - people stop ordering / buying - factories stop shipping. Factories stop shipping - people get laid off.

I have used this logic as a guidepost in every business I have run and it hasn't let me down yet...regarding expansion or retraction, spending, strategic forecasting / budgeting, etc.

RE: 9/11 and Gore

Can anyone honestly say they envisioned that horror before that day? That's part of what was so shocking about it (at least for me).

@ Ge0rge

LOL!!!!

Last edited: Monday, October 04, 2004 at 10:15:36 PM

And I hate how stupid people persuade other stupid people through stupid discourse. That's the problem with america today...to damn many stupid people. Now, I know that jj, and chief aren't buying this dumbass diatribe that the president and cabal trot out to persuade the corn-fed masses. What jj and chief like is capitalism. They think that capitalism, an economic theory...also makes a great political theory. So our economic model is also our default political model. How handy.

In a capitalist society, in order to determine if an idea has value to society, that idea is evaluated soley by prinicipals of the free market. Sorry, but I find this extrodinarily myopic.

Myopic, but rational...i find the logic acceptable, but the intent suspicious and the effects catastrophic...the fear mongering flag waving discourse of the president and cabal I find entirely reprehensible, and not redeeming in any way. Why can't he run on his record? Why can't he champion his domestic policy accomplishments? Is it because they are so heavily pro-business, pro-wealthy, anti-environment, anti-working class? That would explain why he's forced to resort to fear mongering.

So bush et al have to run two separate messages to two separate groups...for group one, the stupid corn fed masses: Be very afraid. For group two he seems to be relying on the republican standard ( though largely unspoken in this age, being discredited after the dismal reagan 80s). To the adherents to The Free Market Uber Alles: lets continue to make things better for the economic elites...and everything else will just fall into place. Trickle down economics. Load up the top, and some of the scraps will fall down to the scavenging, non-deserving hordes. What a great plan.

Chief:
Why are you fighting so hard to accept the 9/11 counterpoint? Nobody's talking about the *horror.* We're talking about an ignored document entitled "BIN LADEN DETERMINED TO ATTACK THE UNITED STATES."
Was Rice et al expecting a peaceful protest, sans horror? Perhaps a sit-in at the Pentagon cafeteria, or parade down Pennsylvania avenue.
You lie to us, but you cannot lie to yourself.

I dunno tally...while I don't think bush did enough, or maybe that he did anything at all...i don't know how he was supposed to know that terrorists would be flying hi-jacked jets into buildings in new york...i know that the clinton admin was very concerned that the incoming bush admin take al qaeda seriously, but I'm not sure clinton et al took al qaeda as seriously as they should have. I believe an invasion of afghanastan was justified after embassies in africa were bombed, the cole was bombed and the first WTC bombing...clinton dropped the ball.

I don't think anything prior to 9/11 would have been markedly different if gore was in there....its the aftermath that would have been handled differently....as in: we wouldn't have invaded iraq for what some religious freaks in afghanistan had done to us.

I agree with you 100% stink... My point on that is simply that we just don't know for sure. There is absolutely no possible way to say beyond any shadow of a doubt that what happened would've happened had Gore been president. Odds are, it would've... No argument there... But the FACT is that we just don't know, nor will we ever know because what's done is done and there's no going back...

@Chief, I'm saying that it was Clintons economic policies that balanced our national deficit and put us into a surplus and that it was Regan's Economic policies that screwed it up in the first place. GB Sr. Didn't help the situation at all.

To say that Clinton took credit for Regan and Bush Sr. Fixing the economy is ignorant. Had Clintons policies been held thru Bushes administration, Millions of Americans would still be employed today and the American economy would still be strong.

If you want your job back, vote for Kerry!

Last edited: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 at 5:24:53 AM

Why not: Hey, check out this document intelligence just handed to me, says something about planes as missiles.
----> armed marshals on every plane till we figure out what the hell is going on.
We know it didn't happen. Do we know why?

Because it would look worse to the public than saving your own arse ?

Trippy coincidence. Looks like he managed to avoid the unavoidable.

Good find G.

Have a convention, hilarity unsues.
http://home.earthlink.net/~houval/gopconstrm.mov