You know, I love the way my fellow christians display uplifting christian messages on bumper stickers, on theme sweaters, and on coffee cups and so on...i've got a few favorites of my own I'd like to share...read on and be inspired

If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads

Levitcus 20:13

Positively makes me gush.......sigh

Peace

Last edited: Sunday, April 18, 2004 at 10:02:57 AM

@Rabban: I would never accuse God of being unreasonable. He gave us free will so we make our own beds. My concern is that I really don't know what wars he condones. It's a scary question: what if your leader sends you to war to do things that God does not agree with? Are we ourselves sinners for following orders, or are we given leave since we don't know any better and are just following orders?

@ALL: I honestly hope that the war with Iraq is a just one, but think of how much the story has changed. What other evil intentions of the Iraqi government was just propaganda? Remember, Iraq was not always "evil," they were actually our allies in the past!

I still wonder if any false prophets managed to make brief appearances in the OT Bible. We went from destroying entire cities to "Let he without sin cast the first stone." I consider God to be infinite and unchanging, so what was it that actually changed?

Truth be told, it really doesn't matter. I'm not going to research the Bible in order to find out exactly what conditions allow me to go killing babies. I got what I needed to know from the "big picture." It's just that the world is such that what your boss or friends expect from you can be different than what Jesus would say, and the Army is included in that conflict. Doing the "right thing" can be such a confusing and confrontational pain in the ass.

Anyhow, I sincerely doubt that our soldiers are on a baby-killing spree. Let's pray that the confrontations end and that the Iraqi people get the representative government they need to rule themselves. Regardless of how we got into this mess, I'm glad that our soldiers are there to mitigate the terrorist acts that are going on down there.

@ROGUE: We were ASKED to help fight against those leaders and we had other countries by our side. This is a little different. Hence, my concern.

@Gnomie: A possible, but very disturbing concept. However, I think the cost of the war out-weighs whatever oil cost-savings we may get from this.

Peace, guys!

- BombJames Bomb

@TankGirl:

This reminds me of one of my favorite Calvin&Hobbes comics:

Calvin: Do you think babies are born with sin?

Hobbes: No, I think they're just quick learners.

Heh. It can be so true. Just yesterday little Jack had a gleeful smile as he playfully grabbed a handful of hair off my arm and yanked it off! Yeouch! I could just see it in his eyes: "Odd or even, Daddy?"

(Just kidding, by the way. No matter what the Bible says, I believe that a Baby becomes a sinner through experience, not by blood.)

- BombJames Bomb

Another caption

"....and make sure you dont kill any babies and never vote republi --- hey dude, are getting all this? Ah, christ you're drunk again, aren't you ezekeil?"

I've come into this thread rather late, but as an observer after the fact I find it very ironic...

I would not catagorize you Van as a blind follower of religion. In fact it is obvious from your posts that you have investigated every word of the bible and more to discover for yourself the true meaning behind each. This is very admirable, unlike myself who didn't want to be a blind follower, so I simple gave it up rather than spend the time to learn.

The irony is that the point Stinky'taters is trying to make is that many people simply use qoutes from the bible like they use qoutes from a movie. Take them out of context and use them as cutsie monikers for their lives, with no regard for their true meaning.

Now you've gone and pissed him off and he may never be back. And this makes me sad because he is very funny.

And my entry for the qoute competition...

"Yes, its true. I have no legs"

A Do, Do, Do! A Da, Da, Da!

Lol rabby, is the next line "That's all I have to say to you" ?

@Rabban: Are you still celebrating 4/20? It's been over 24 hours, it's time to put the munchies away and sober up! XD

@stinkfingers: Your last caption is dang hilarious!

- BombJames Bomb

Hi oddy, im not pissed...i was just thinking this was getting ugly, and I dont want to contribute to the ugliness anymore...

I agree with you with what you've said about van...same is true for rabban...they've invested a lot of thought in what they believe...

Also gotta say, I appreciate james b's wraslin' with the issues in the way that he does....of course I'm siding with the arguments presented by the non-belivers...go figure....carry on....

Ps...thanks JB: it was inspired by what I you said in one of your recent posts!

Stinky *

*not affiliated with poo-flinging kiddies

Last edited: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 at 8:24:26 PM

@Stinky: in reference to "*"

Then what IS it affiliated to? Go on, tell the kiddies! :P Of course, my unclean mind always starts with the dirty definitions.

- BombJames Bomb

Excellenent posts Rabban,

@TG - I belive babies are born with Original sin, that is the sin that was caused by Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. That is why many churches preform Babtisum on infants. Of course when people question that practice you need to ask them if thier child loves thier parents? And if so, why couldn't they love God?

Murder is killing, but not all killing is murder. It is one of the great philisopical debates that has been with us since Cain and Able, and what point does the act of killing someone become murder?

A lot of military soldiers have the hardest time justifying what they are doing. One of the best quotes I heard was "I am fighting so that you can be free, and don't have to fight"

In reference to the caption: God's first attempt wasn't so glorious-looking!

God as a kid tries to make a chicken in his room.

(Gary Larson Farside Comic. Took me awhile to find this.)

- BombJames Bomb

Last edited: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 at 8:56:08 PM

LOL JB!!!

Im not about to tell the kiddies what it is a reference to...you dirty minded feller...most people think I mean something else...but I think you get the reference! Funny. I took the name from the act my dirty uncle used to accuse me of doing with finnish exchange student girlfriend...dats all I'm gonna say about dat....

OK, I am new to the forums and am VERY stupid to jump in to this first thing, but I MUST talk! (-:

First of all, hello to you all.

ANd now to the hard part...!

I was not able to read this whole thread, but from what I gather I am quickly losing any liking for my "good friend" stinkster.

One of the hallmarks of Satans work is deception. The main way he does this is through issueing 99% truth, and 1% lie. This is enough to completely throw an issue into uckiness (-: It is sad that people like stinky-dude-man post things like this, because they simply mess things up.

The most important thing to a christian is Christ dieing. That confuses a lot of people. What is important about a dude-man dieing you ask?? The reasoon is because (I know you have heard this one) He DIED FOR OUR SINS. THis caused us to be able to depend on GRACE.

There are two testements in the bible, old and new. The old one is what the jews depend on. In it, they were under THE LAW. When christ dies, we no longer had to be under this, because all of our mistakes could be forgiven. You won't see God saying "KILL THEM" anymore, because we are in grace. Our mistakes are forgiven.

Also, God can judge the heart, he knows ALL about you (you to Mr. Stinks.)

Not to sound preachy, but I reccomend that YOU Stainky look at the New Testament and read through it, unstead of grabbing bible jokes off forewords. Lots of people try to disprove christianity and end up believing it. I hope you can be blessed with that too.

Hop we are still all friends, just had to talk.

Hi akbash...no problem...:) I have read through the new testament...its not all that bad...but I wont be converted...see, I've got this bet going with satan -- and long story short -- if I convert I stand to lose $50....

Anyway, what you have said isn't really novel to the discussion, so don't feel like you've alienated anyone here...and as I've said, I'm done with this issue except to say silly things every once and a while...

Anyway...i'm trying to think "happy thought.s" I just put a poster on my office wall that reads: "pobody's nerfect!" its got the CUTEST picture of this silly orangatang climbing out of a garbage can with some undies on his head....what a hoot! Think good thoughts!

Stinky, the-pure-at-heart

--------------------WARNING LONG POST-------------------------

I finally have some time to sit down and do some research

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Most alleged Bible contradictions can be explained by the following

1) Reading a verse out of context. Make sure you read the entire chapter to see what context the verse is in. Sometimes the begining of the chapter will reveal the subject in the following verses.

(2) Change between old and new covenants. As Christians, we are not under the laws of the old covenant listed in the old testement. Because we are not under the law, some people confuse verses in the new testement to contradict those of the old. Not a contradiction, simply just a change in covenants.

(3) Bad translation. Not all Bibles are good translations. Whenever you translate from one language to another you have the potential for mistranslations. Also some cult groups have bad translations that are slanted to match thier doctrine. The New World Translation of The Holy Scriptures (Jehovah's Witness Version) is a good example of a very bad translation.

And I found some more stuff on the midianite 'problem'

The Israelites fought the Midianites because of the incidents in Numbers 22:4 and 25:14-18.

God is Holy and it is consistent with both His righteousness, goodness and holiness to destroy evil. The Midianites were descended from Abraham according to Genesis 25:1-4. Not only did their ancestors know of the God of Abraham and cease to follow God, but they deliberately tempted the Israelite men to sin.

Other peoples in other parts of the world might have been just as bad as the Midianites and they did not get wiped out right away. However, the Midianites knew more since they came from Abraham, and with more knowledge comes more accountability. Also, God is just, but He is not necessarily equitable in this life. God will set everything aright on judgment day, but until then some people get wiped out when they should have been spared, and others who should have been wiped out escape, for a time.

[qoute]why kill all the Midianite boys and not the virgin women and little girls? [quote]

Scripture does not say. Perhaps because Israelite family lineage was traced through males, the boys would not fit into society as well, since they were not from the twelve tribes, and adoption was not their custom.

Scripture here is only honestly reporting what Moses commanded. There is no indication that God either approved or disapproved. Remember, Moses DID murder before he was called ot be the prophet for God, a great example of Gods willingness to forgive

The answer is simply: God can do whatever He wants. The following explanation (hopefully) will help you understand the answer. Regardless of whether you agree that God can do what He wants, or like the answer, at least you can fully understand all that is meant by this answer.

Answer Yes or No

(Yes/No) Would God be just if He made peoples lifespan longer?

(Yes/No) Would God be just if He made peoples lifespan shorter?

(Yes/No) When it was time for some one to die, would God be just to choose whatever means He wished?

(Yes/No) Would God be just if He let some people live longer than others?

If you answered No to any of the above, cite the relevant legal statute, if any, along with the authority behind that statute. :)

Now lets briefly look at a very extreme, and untrue, example. Pretend for a moment that God decided that every person in North America would die when they were exactly ten years old. Supposed the manner of death was to be killed by the nine year olds. Would God be unjust? If so, on what basis? God is not a citizen of the United States, Canada, or any other country. Even if God was subject to our laws (which He is not), our laws do not try to legislate what God can do any more than they legislate what is permitted for tornadoes and hurricanes.

If you are going to say this extreme example, or any other for that matter, was unjust, you have only one possible basis for saying so. It is that since Gods character is good and what He has spoken is all true, an example could be shown to be unjust of God if and only if it was inconsistent with all He revealed about His character and ways.

Fortunately God is not like the extreme example. The Bible saying that God is loving does not "force" God to be loving. Rather, God was loving first, and freely desired to express to us that He was loving, along with being just, holy, and having wrath. God is asking you to follow Him, but He is not begging you. If you do not like this, you can go your own way and God will go His. But consider where your own way will lead.

God is often extremely nice (though loving is a more accurate word). God is so loving, that God the Son came to earth to suffer and die, to shed His own blood on the cross for our sins. However, to those who reject God and to those who hurt others, God is not nice. In both the Old and New Testaments, God is less shy about His wrath than we often are. If you can see that while God is very loving, God is not always nice, nor is He required to be, you have seen past one of the biggest misconceptions about God in our culture.

Hope you were able to read all of it.

Sounding like a lunatic Van.

You lost me there van...i was unable to follow the logic...but, anyway...it works for you...it works for others...doesn't work for me...

Carry on

Good post Van. If I may summarize the major points:

1. Those that suffered the most wrath were those that were most knowledgeable of God, yet worked against him. These weren't just sinners, but actual enemies of God. Nobody these days really "knows" God well enough to qualify for this wrath.

2. We live under different rules now (different covenant). @Van: When exactly did that happen? Are the 10 commandments still valid? Does this mean the whole "gay" thing is now void? I missed that part somehow.

3. We have no right to tell God what is just. Thankfully, he's a good guy.

I think that gets the major points (without all the supporting details). I do agree with points 1 and 3, but I wasn't aware of point 2. As I said, a good post.

- BombJames Bomb

@Stink --

For entertainment purposes, I'm calling Satan's $50 and raising him $25. Start preaching brother Stink.

Now TG:

Thats my saying lol :)

Rabban:

I understand self defense but its not a justification...there would not be a need for self defense during a war if u stayed home in the first place. Also the bible is written by a group whose decendents survived and flourished...its baised....back in 1790 if u were from america u considered george washington a hero...if u came from england u considered him a terrorist...BTW where was God when I tore u up in BM? Naa just kidding :)

@ackbash

Note: more people have been killed from murder AFTER christ died...if he died for our sins so that they be forgiven then I say HE NEEDS TO DIE SOME MORE...at least a couple more thousand times...then maybe even I will believe...

@JB

I assume u have more knowledge than the rest of us on the Iraq topic and that u dont care to go into detail...i respect that...from here on the mainland the 5% of the truth the media decides to share with us all says that we are sending our military over there to save 5cents on gas....hope im wrong...all soldiers have my respect BTW...hope things are different than what they seem like here

@ van

Give us an example of a GOOD translation from ancient hebrew...why ur at it why not give us a version that doesnt contradict and fail rules of logic...when u find that one ill take it more seriously....

B

The last time that I entered a church was the day I asked the Army Chaplain what God thought about us going to war and killing people and all he could tell me was "Son, as long as you kill in God´s name and for your country it is not a sin." I spent 10 years of my life as a soldier in the U.S. Army and I was very proud to serve my country but I coud never agree with that statement from the Army Chaplain. I was Baptised as a baby, a born again Christian at 14 and always went to church till that day. I do not condem anyone for what they believe. In many ways I do try to live my life the way it is written in the bible because it is morally right. But I refuse to belive that there is some great being up there waiting to punnish me for not living up to his expectations. In my oppinion any religion is just a play off on peoples guilt. You know, if you scare some one enough and make him feel guilty enough, he´ll do anything you want almost. It´s a great way for the people in power to keep control of the masses. Please no one take offense this is only my oppinion.

Jinx

@Jinx:

Oh come on, how long have you been here? You KNOW someone will take offense! :P

Sounds like your Chaplain did a pretty crappy job for a man in his position. "I will kill my neighbor in God's name, so it's okay!" Yahwhatever. It's BS and you saw it. Seems odd to drop your belief in God over a one chaplain's error, though. You must've had many other things occur.

I agree that organized religion is a first-rate tool for controlling the masses, but that does not nullify the existence of God. It is just an unfortunate abuse of his existence. Oddly enough, God's punishment seems to only occur on Earth. Never read anywhere of him dishing out punishment in the afterlife. Once you die, it is just a question of whether you get to go to his home or not. If you don't believe in him, I guess you wouldn't really want to go there anyway. ;) Of course, there is that whole "hell" concept, but the existence of that is a WHOLE other topic!

- BombJames Bomb

All this talk about babies is making Rabban hungry! Hey baby!! Get in my belly! Here baby, baby, baby! :P

@Bolo - I've got this tank. I've got these shells. And I've got the love of Jesus is these pretty blue eyes. (We both know you didn't win every meeting on the hill. Most, but not all. ;) ).

@JamesB - You start the "Who in the hell?" thread and I'll start "Your free will destiny". :)

Rabban at lunch :P

Last edited: Thursday, April 22, 2004 at 5:27:42 PM

Mahn, we hates dat piccie. Aldwayz givin' us da willies.

GET IN MAH BELLY!

@Gnomie: That isdisturbing! Blech.

- BombJames Bomb

I had to do this...

Hebrews vs Midinites

Credits to Michael for finding the site.

Last edited: Thursday, April 22, 2004 at 6:02:07 PM

Gnice painting Gnomie, but how can you show that to the young ones and not give them nightmares? Killing all those babies shouldn't be so disturbing. What if it were illustrated with lego bricks instead?

Massacre of the Midianites

Yes it's a frighteningly powerful picture isn't it, but given the theme, I guess the more powerful the better. I did pull the original image, but maybe it still needs a health warning. Jay Scott Morgan said about it:

But for me it could be a portrait of Jupiter or Yaweh or Thor or any of those bastard bronze age Gods, vicious murdering brutes every single one of them. Great for scary tales around the campfire though.

Last edited: Thursday, April 22, 2004 at 9:32:50 PM

Ok stinky, time to get a new hobby, go play thinktanks or something