I was playing scrum on 2 different occasions last night and both times I was repeatedly blasted when I was nowhere near the goal or scrum. Could someone please post a thread containing the rules of when it is ok to shoot someone and when it is not. There seems to be a lot of bmers all of a sudden.

No lol, you can shoot anyone or anything at any given time, it doesnt matter.

In Battlemode yes, but in scrum, the object is to capture the scrum and score. Why have battlemode if scrum is going to be the same way?

@ Sherm

Although there are different schools of thought here, most folks will tell you that there is quite a bit of Bm'ing in TS. There are a few people who will complain about it, but it is a recognized tactic.

Stinkfingers posted a good thread concerning this.

Last edited: Saturday, February 12, 2005 at 9:05:37 AM

I think Sherm was referring to the low-crawling blasting in the behind when you are nowhere near the goal in indy scrum. In TS it isn't a problem for me, in indy scrum, I have issues with it. I liken it to playing basketball, and you're running down the court and someone trips you or hits you in the groin. Yes, it may be a tank, it may have a gun on it, but at least have the courage to shoot someone when they are expecting it.

I agree about Bm'in in Indie...It seems alot of Demos do it and alot of People who are new or under aliases...

Wonder why they can't follow the rules! :o

LOL - it never occured to me he was referring to indie.......

Wholeheartedly agree with ^ & ^^

Memphis hit the nail on the head. That's exactly what I'm referring to. I've only been on TT for a few weeks and it's all I can do to keep up with the more experienced players without having someone blow me away when I'm across the map from the scrum. C'mon people, show a little respect. If I'm not carrying the scrum and I'm not anywhere near the goal, then leave me the hell alone. After all, I'm showing you that respect!

@All,

I realize some of you like to think there are rules in scrum (wheather TS or indie) but the fact remains there are none. It is a good strategy to wound your enemy from behind before they get to the ball or goal. It makes it much easier to kill them when they do attempt to score.. While many of you may have decided it is against some moral code.. The ultimate is to win.. And since it is allowed and no points are removed for doing it.. It is a valid strategy.. One a number of us heavies make use of.. Sorry that it does not meet your code of playing but we all use what we have. As for the basketball example its ridiculous (sorry Memphis) as tripping or hitting in the groin is NOT part of the game and in fact illegal. BMins in scrum is NOT illegal..

I had a topic about a BMing incident once...

I hate when theres a scuffle for the scrum by the goal and people are dying and spawning across the board and you spawn with another tank in some remote corner far from the scrum and the guy shoots you in the back while you try to make your way back to the scrum. Thats really low. Other than that I dont think theres a bad time to shoot (hence the name XD )

@IT TICKLES..

WHAT A BUNCH OF WHINING IDIOTS !!!.. Certainly a valid point although harsh.

JESUS CHRIST !!!.. Not exactly appropriate in the forums.. Sorry

It ain't illegal on the street bubba, still makes it cheap.

The point of scrum and BM is to score, and there are different ways to end up at the same objective. But if you shoot at me, while we are both at the other end of a map, you aren't doing it to score, you're doing it to be a jerk. It saps the fun right out of an indy scrum game when some meathead decides that the point of the game is to shoot at you, rather than to score a goal.

Listen you can play the way that you want to, and there are plenty of other threads that address this topic. BUT, unloading a clip into someone that isn't concentrating on you is a low-crawling way to play. You want to hang with the snakes, go right ahead. Just be prepared to get stepped on while you're down there.

Last edited: Saturday, February 12, 2005 at 1:55:13 PM

@Memphis..

Actually it is illegal everywhere (please read a basketabll rule book) it just not called in street ball.. Just like travelling or taking a charge, but that doesn't make it any less illegal now does it?

Shooting you away from the ball.. Flag.. Bouncy thing..lol.. Does serve a purpose.. It makes you smoke and reduces your ability to withstand an attack when you finally do get the ball. So in fact there is a strategic importance to doing this. It makes perfect sense and I am sure will be used extensively in the upcoming 3on3 tourney. It is not being a jerk as you put it but in fact is a sound strategy.. It just happens to be a strategy that you don't like or agree with.. Thats very acceptable.. BUT to tell everyone that its wrong is well....wrong.. If you can show me in the rules of the game where is says its illegal I will happily say I am wrong... I wish you all the luck in the world finding it since it is not even penalized..

I am not actually that low.. Rather a tall guy.. But thanks for asking... And being stepped on is never a worry for me.. More like getting my ankles bit by lights..lol

Checkout this great thread on scrum.

@ doc -

I'm pretty sure Memph is referring to indy scrum. Any real player in TS totally accepts the role bm and camping have. The point of not doing it in indy, is that if EVERYONE did it, then everyone would just bm all the time. There would be few "oooo" and "ahhhh" goals...that is a huge part of the fun for most people. It wouldn't be scrum or even battlescrum...it would just be poop. Go ahead and shoot me in the ass in indy if I'm nowhere near the scrum, and try to enjoy the duration of your stay in my server. I assure you it won't be pleasant, and your scroing will be minimized.

Anyone noob can pull up someone and drop a clip in yo' ass...doesn't take much skill. BMing and camping in TS are fine and encouraged...to not use them makes you a fool.

No disrespect intended...I just think Memph's opinion is in the majority.

Indeed, since TT is not a 'policed' game (thanks goodness it is not, that was a fiasco) and basketball is, then perhaps the metaphor was not a good one. But I have been involved in a few gorilla basketball games myself and the "rules" of the game, if there is no official, are open to interpretation which leads us to playing a game in indy scrum.

Since there are no rules, you can dive with the flag, you can run along the cliff, you can even hang around the goal and wait for people to bring the flag to you, all tactics that have been used, all bringing about different amounts of success. Is it enjoyable to play with people who BM, cliff hang or dive during the game? My answer, is no.

The original question posed by the sherminator, what is the etiquette of scrum, I made the assumption that it was understood that etiquette is all about unwritten rules and infers matters of opinion, so yes I was stating my opinion on the matter, but if you play that way, go right ahead and good luck, I just think its more fun to play in a different manner, regardless if I am winning or losing.

Last edited: Saturday, February 12, 2005 at 5:01:09 PM

Great job Mem!

If a demo tries to bm it is usually not a problem cause you can kick there but prety easy most of them, not you ozzy yoru a good demo, but most demo dont know how it works and just kill them if they try to kill you same with anyone try and get everyone to realize they are bming so when anyone sees them they can kill them this could help to get them to stop bming I wouldn't want to bm if I was dieng everyo 5 seconds woudl you?

*keeps in mind to bm doc the next time he sees him in an indie scrum game*

Lol.. You guys can BM me all you want.. I will never take offence.. And although professor and memphis I disagree with you both, I certainly respect your opinion.. I just share a different one.... And yes I am mainly a BMer.. So it comes natural to me.. Lol

Scrum is new to me as of this week, so I've been digging through the forums to learn more about it. I've learned quite a bit in the servers as well.
I am really having fun and enjoy playing it a lot.

Now, I don't know what Indy scrum is, but in TS, you can expect me to:

1. Camp - Duh, my big butt fits in the goal!
2. "Soften" the opposing team up if we're all running for the scrum - I'm fat and slow, and I have a big cannon. Do the math.
3. Dive off a cliff to get a better spawn - once again I'm fat and slow, I need all the help I can get.
4. Not respond to liight tank whiners (e.g., "Your just hurting the team when you play with a heavy and you don't belong".) OK, just call me a sensitive girly man.
5. NOT LEAVE THE GAME AND COME BACK AS A LIGHT TANK - it's like trading your 4x4 truck in for a scooter.
6. Pass whenever I can and provide cover for you - I'm slow, so do better as a defender.
6. Follow the BOLOISMS when applicable.- http://supra.planetthinktanks2.com/archives/comm-thread.asp?thread=5154&forum=4

Hope to see you out there.

-MUSC.

Last edited: Saturday, February 12, 2005 at 9:25:25 PM

@ doc - Anyone who has played indie scrum for any period of time would agree with what Memphis has so elegantly and intelligently stated.

- Your first argument is irrelevant. Subject is etiquette not rules. Also subject is about killing in field with no goal or scrum in vicinity.

- You mention your code of playing, as if that were different than etiquette, as being superior to ours because it makes it easier to win.

- You state that your code of playing (etiquette) is acceptable because rules cannot be enforced and winning rules all.

--- Conclusion- You cheat to win because it is easer to obtain than skill. This supports your ego and boost your lack of self-esteem by creating false successes.

Rebuttal-
- This was never about Teams Scrum so shut up about it. We all know it is different.

- If you have never player indie scrum in a light with good players, then you have never played indie scrum they way we see it.

-It is a fun game, and we know damn well when our fun factor drops because of certain players. Either battlemoding us, camping, hanging, or diving.

The etiquette of scrum (Life) - Play so we can all enjoy the game.

MAX

Look I have every thing in one thread on Indie, TS, thoughts from those who Host our servers for our great games & How to reach that next level !
Every Thing In One
Last but not least,
Zoom Radar( for PC's only, Sluggy still working on Mac version) !
Hope this helps some one ! B)

Last edited: Saturday, February 12, 2005 at 10:41:39 PM

@ Doc

I am sorry that you feel that way, when actually, the ultimate is to enjoy. Winning is nice, but not at the cost of personal diginity, and enjoyment of the game by the bulk of players. The ultimate is to win friends. See sluggy's post titiled "oh well..." if you want to see what community is. Sluggy was an honourable player. He left a legacy here. What do you want to leave?

-ducky

@MAX-CR,

You are right the subject is etiquette but the original post asked for RULES.. So I am not as off base as you think.. As for cheating I certainly don't do that! I am skilled quite fine thank you as most people who play with me woudl tell you.. Just because you deem something you like to be cheating does not make it so.. Please get off YOUR high horse.. Sheesh.. I do agree that players will play a game for a period of time and develope their own set of guidlines for playing (a perfect example would be playing pool.. Every hall has its own house rules..) but this does not change the original set of rules for the game.. BMing an opponent in Indy srum is NOT against the rules and a matter of fact is a smart tactic..soften up your enemy so to speak... Although I would agree with Memphis on the point that it may take away from the enjoyment for experienced players it IS NOT against the rules..and THAT was the original question..

As for your rebuttal.. You were doing fine until you showed your true colours with that SHUT UP line. These forums are meant for dialog.. Which means we all express our opinions even if they don't agree with each other. We do this is a civial way.. And resorting to things like that makes you well less of a person... Sorry.. Just MY opinion..

And notice I never once told you to shut up..lol

@Daisy,

I certainly agree with you about the major thing is to enjoy oneself.. Well put.. But it is also a game with a winner and a loser.. I can lose with the best of them but I certainly prefer to win.. I think we all do.. That is why the human race is where it is.. The drive to be the best... That is why they make games with a winner and a loser.. Most games that don't have one are not played by people.. Wonder why?

My legacy.. Excellent question.. Well I should say I prefer BM much more than scum.. Although I see there are some unique things in scrum that could attract some people... I like to have fun.. Poke fun at my friends.. And yes in BM people know me well.. I never use profanity or belittle another player.. But get in my sights and well your brain separates... And of course a little trash talking never hurt anyone..

DOC

@ doc

And that is why there is no NHL...the drive to be the best often mutates into the drive to be the best paid. And that is why the hippies actually got something right, man. You dig? I like how you started your vibe with some positivity, but I guess my question was a bit more existential than 'what game do you like best'. But never mind...don't want to harsh your mellow.

Dd

Not true! That's why God invented the Frisbee! I toss with friends for hours on end. No need for competition and fun as hell!

I think it is whining when someone says that its wrong to soften up another tank in indi scrum. I have a cannon to shoot, and Im going to use it to an advantage if I can. Why is it only ok in team mode? My biggest gripe about scrum are the people that purposely dive to gain a fresh tank. A while back, I remember playing a mod where anyone who went off the map gained a fresh tank, however, with the inability to shoot. I liked that a lot. It kept people honest. I think diving to get a fresh tank is compromising the integrity of the game.

Normally when someone keeps Bming you in Indie Scrum, it's Hampsta Wanka or one of his many aliases. If it's not him, then it will be a DEMO in a heavy who can't keep up.....

Mmm, frisbee.

@Daisy Dukes... Woot!

The goal of the game is to have fun!
Consider that when you shoot someone out of a game. Consider the reverse role. Frisbee tanks... Hmmm Can we throw ufo's ?

Shooting someone out of the game is fun.
XD

@Daisy..

Don't confuse greed with the desire to be the best.. Man on the moon.. I think that was a race wasn't it? Look at all the wonderful things in our lives (including medicines) that came from that race.. Hows that for looking beyond the box.. Lol

@Regent..

You obviously have not been paying attention to what is happening in the frisbee world.. Can you say frisbee football.. We have taken a non competive thing to do and turned it into something competative.. Why is that? Could it be its in our nature.. To compete... To be the best..

Wow this is getting REALLY off topic but I like it.. Hahahah

@All..

I noticed something very interesting the other day and this MAY shed some light and end this debate.. I set up an indy srum game on my computer with expert bots.. And low and behold they started shooting me when I was going for the ball. The exact same thing all of you are trying to suggest is wrong.. It seem the programmers of the game who made the AI (ok this can be argued) don't agree with any of you.. They themselves programmed the bots to do just what you all want to stop.. :)

BraveTree never implemented a rule against BMing in Indi scrum, therefore it's totslly legal, however I do not reccomend doing it.

@ doc

Do you really think the race to the moon had nothing to do with greed? Greed means more than greenbacks man. That was greed for a prize. It seems that there are all sorts of 'beasts' in our nature, but that doesn't mean that we need to let them get the best of us. When we overcome our nature and self-centeredness, it is then we really win. There is nothing wrong with cometition, but there is a bigger loss if you win at any cost.

-dd

@ Rx, tally

Me like frisbee

Dd

@Daisy,

Ok.. Greed for a prize.. Now are you saying the race for space was bad? That the many wonderful and life saving things that came out of that are bad.. Hmm.. You are aware that Communism doesn' t work aren't you...lol..

Hey Doc.

Softening players in Indie Scrum, when they're not near the ball, pisses most people off.

Is it legal? Yes
Is it in the AI? Yes
Will it help you win? Probably (but payback can be a bitch)

So what.

This is a community game and basic rules of community say you should avoid behaviors that piss off the masses. What else needs to be said?

Well said 44 B)

I think doc has a good point. Bming is part of the game, but it comes in more than one flavor. If you're trying to score and are actively part of the game action, fine. I've got no problem with that.

The flavor of BM (icky name, in't it?) most hate come from the putzes whose aim is to get into a game and annoy the crud out of the people trying to play. All they think of is senslessly slaughtering players. They don't even try to score, they just crap all over the game... :'(

I think that's the thing that most complain about...

I wish EVERYONE would read this. Sniper gets an apple on his desk for his guidelines on the other thread.
Bmoding in indie scrum is not about being illegal. Nothing is illegal. It's about keeping the game at a fun, playable level. It's about keeping the flow of the game. With excessive Bmoding you get low scoring games, players constantly spawning all over the place. Lucky spawns get the goals. Noooo fun.
I do agree with shooting the next most likely player to get the scrum but only when nearing the goal. This includes campers as they put themselves in this position. So it's always open season on them.

A point that hasn't been brought up: It is NOT a camp if you're spawned away from the scrum and you know the carrier is about to hit a boost pad to come your way. I've been called a camper for doing this. My accuser actually thought I should have hunkered back to the scrum knowing it was coming my way in the first place. Anticipating where the scrum will go is a skill not a camp.
If you Bmode for no reason in indie these days good luck to ya. You'll just get it right back. It's tough to score with smoke in yer eyes.

@doc

What 44 said is essentially what I was getting at. We are trying to keep it fun.

-dd

My personal rules fall into the majority - very similar to the Professor's. (This is for Indy Scrum only, btw) You shoot me as part of a scrum chase, no problem. You try to smoke me when I'm nowhere near the goal OR the flag, and I will smoke you back, and then follow you into the action and kill you just as you're about to start participating.

If you smoke me again, I will stop playing scrum and start hounding you from one end of the map to the other.

@44..

Very well said.. And that was my point all along.. That it is not illegal.. Just something that players have decided they would like to see..

Tito, get me some tissues for the whiners who are crying about getting softened up where ever they are on the field.

^ I suggest you save those tissues to soak up the oil dripping from your smokey tank...you will reap what you sow.