I have implemented an enhancement to the outOfBounds script for testing on Frantic Slug.

If a player goes out of bounds he will spawn very near where he left the map with reduced health. This is modification is only active in Chaos/Team Scrum and is a further attempt to reduce the advantage that diving gives players

This is the first iteration of the script. It seems to work well but may take some getting used to. If it meets with reasonable acceptance we will install it on a couple of other servers.

I don't think this will effect the game must more than did the previous rev of the outOfBounds script but as ever, YMMV.

.....granpa sluggy

Last edited: Sunday, June 06, 2004 at 1:33:22 AM

@JB:

1) As I tried to point out in my previous reply.. Identifying a team killer isn't as easy as you think. One shot of friendly fire might be the deadly blow on a tank heavily wounded by enemy fire. Is it really fair to penalise for this? The US army would be up shit creek if the same thing applied to them from their little 'friendly fire' accidents.

2) Yes, very easily, and actually that could be a good solution. Make the reload gate into an ammo + health reload gate. The only real issue, is that that would spoil battlemode. Fine, so it only does ammo in battlemode you say.. Now you have very different rules for two games which were pretty nicely balanced from the same set of rules. A secondary gate could be fairly easily introduced (a little map editting required to find a suitable location for the health gate) which is only present on scrum servers and only issues health - while the other ammo reload remains the same. Maybe this is a better solution.

3) Campfire works for solo scrum, not sure I'd want to see it in team scrum. Part of the draw of team scrum is the 'goal clearing' so your teammate bearing scrum can bring it home. There are also tactics involved with goal clearing... No point in clearing it too early or you might be spawning the tank you destroyed between you and the scrum carrier.. Making it harder for your team mate to bring the scrum to the goal.

-z-

Tally zooms into the future, where we lock our turrets in the forward position because shooting one way and driving another is deceptive and unpredictable.

Next topic: that pesky "s" key.

@JB:

Just sent sluggy some stuff to test idea #2.

Isnt this getting a little ridiculous? Whats next no shooting and no camping in TS???

B

@Tally & Bolo: I just want to mix it up, a little. Everyone knows I love the game in its current rule-set as well, or I would ONLY be on the PTT server. The campfire thing is FUN. Yes, I know that goalies are perfectly acceptable in team-scrum, and can be handled easily enough in indie scrum, but why not try something different? It's hilarious to watch people drop like flies as they rumble for the scrum in a pit of fire! It's not nearly as instant as Sluggy's method of placing the goal within the bog, so defensive play still applies. Halo allows you to modify rules so that different tactics are required. Things like the time-delay after death, what kind of ammo you start with, whether there is 1 flag or 2. I love the fact that Sluggy sees an over-used strategy and then eliminates it, so that we are back to those glory days when we were still experimenting on what works! I assure you, that every change that is made, means that a new "exploit" strategy is probably present that we haven't seen yet. I swear, sometimes I think the TT Gods are actually worried about having to re-learn the game.

@-z-, I agree that my health-gate idea would be an extremely poor fit for BM. I was only thinking Scrum (as always). I was only suggesting it for a custom map, not for the whole game. We have maps that are exclusive CTF maps, so why not have exclusive Scrum maps? Thanks for sending the stuff to Sluggy!

As for the 1-shot friendly kill, yes, the Army is up shit-creek for such stuff. There is demoralizing idiocy that just doesn't make it on the news. Once again, I just want it so as to change tactics. In the past, it wasn't a big deal if you had a couple buddies in the field of fire as you lobbed AE rounds into the goal area. Now you have to think about it. I wouldn't want to ALWAYS play that way, but it would be really fun to try it out. And if one stray bullet kills a buddy, well sometimes Lady Luck can be as cruel with the gun as she is with the scrum goal-rumbles. Grab a power-up and drive on.

Bottom Line: I think the only thing that needs to be "fixed" in TT is that the terrain is a bit dull. However, changes to the game itself gives it that "new" feeling again and makes it fun to try new tactics. Remember how fun it was when Sluggy actually made the medium and heavy tanks a useful vehicle in his scrum games? Good stuff for variety!

- BombJames Bomb

@Bolo: Actually, I remember a custom map someone made with no ammo when I first joined. Made it completely impossible to clear the goal, so almost every point was luck. Seemed like a neat idea, but turned out rather sour.

As for camping, I still say the goal should be a tad wider so that you could still fake left and score right, rather than have to stop and BM the fresh tank while the others are coming up behind you. Unfortunately, There isn't an easy way to do that. Yes, in team scrum, you have buddies to clear the goal, but it still gets kind of old to have to snuff the same guy every round. I guess I want changes for the sake of variety.

I should comment that I am NOT suggesting additional "rules" in the game. These gentlemen rules only give the advantage to those that chose not to follow them, and they are rarely agreed upon. I am suggesting additional hazards so that we can use every move or tactic that comes to mind without having to think "will this piss off a whiner?" So, instead of Sluggy having to say "please don't dive" to every new gamer, he just creates a new script to make it less advantageous. Of course, ramming players off the edge is now a new tactic. Ok, I'm done now.

- BombJames Bomb

Those who complain the loudest are clearly the same that stand to lose the most.

Way to go Sluggy. Diving is an abuse to the quality of the game. Lets render null those who depend on diving as a "Strategy".

Heh, the only time I dive is when Im running with the scrum near the edge, and Im badly damaged with no ammo left (by that time I see no way of surviving since every 1s after me) so I decide that if I cant keep the scrum, then no 1 will XD and so I dive, and it might give me another advantage to recovering the scrum from its new spawning point ;)

This is about the only acceptible way to dive, wouldnt yull agree? :)

Cadc (SA) (Leader)

Unfortunately cadc I dont agree with the whole "if I cant have it then nobody will" mentality. That drives me mad sometimes.

If you have been badly shot up and have no where else to go, then you have been outplayed and out-manoeuvered. Accept it. Die with dignity and give up the scrum to the enemy hopefully far enough away from the goal to give yourself or team mates time to have another try at winning it back before they get it to goal. Maybe even deliberately pass it to the enemy tank with the most smoke. That's how I feel about it.

-Z-

I was talking more along the lines of Solo Scrum (if I had team mates, Id look for the pass for sure ;) ) sry for the mix up -Z- B)

Cadc (SA) (Leader)

CADC, you scrum-dive? That's like running home and taking the ball with you. While it admittedly gives you a chance for a lucky spawn near the new scrum, it is a serious "downer" to all the other tanks to not see that round go to conclusion. Seriously, even if it isn't me, it's cool to watch that winning goal! Kind of sad to see someone throw it away and make us all start from scratch.

- BombJames Bomb

Ive only done it once, mabe twice in my whole TT history (and I often avoid it if at all possible)(but still, I dont see anything wrong doing it in that mentality)

Diving isnt my thing either, so dont worry ;)

Cadc (SA) (Leader)

Even in Solo Scrum, you'll never catch me deliberately diving and very very seldom will you see me ridge running or similar. If I'm about to die and have the scrum, so be it. I just try and get as far from the goal with it as possible or pass it to another badly smoking tank as the fumbling involved when they die will hopefully slow the game down just enough for me to get back into play - or of course, that badly smoking tank may take it that extra bit further away from the goal to buy me the time I need.

From a strategic point of view, I think NOT diving with it is the better course of action, apart from the reasons I've mentioned, if I did dive with it, then the chances are, that any tank near me at the time which was also smoking would also dive. Thus there are a whole load of new fresh tanks spawning, and any one of them might be more closer to the newly spawned scrum than me.

If you exagerate the effects, then diving because you dont have a clear run at goal, is just like restting the level until you have an easy freebie.

-Z-

@ -Z-

I agree with you all the way both for teams and solo!! B)

Take it eazy -Z-, its not like me 2 do it (so u dont need to tell me not to do it, cuz I hardly do it at all (Ive been here for a year now, I think they can let me do it oce or twise aside from other people who do it all the time) (honest)

I think ull have better luck with Da Cleaner :P

Cadc (SA) (Leader)