Checkout this ancient post from 8/17/2003!!!
It was by a player named Jeff Axline on the old GarageGames message board .
Important Note: It was actually a quote from none other than our very own Tally Ho!

P.s. The comments Ho made totally described what indie scrum has become on public servers today.

Posted: Aug 17, 2003 12:44
I just want to restate some issues with the new versions. I've seen people question players about their issues with vers. 1.1. It may be that the server versions have been on for three weeks but that doesn't mean the issues are not real. Scrum just isn't nearly as much fun anymore. Wether the issue is the new servers or V1.1 doesn't interest me. The problem still exists. I would gladly downgrade the whole system if I could. The few improvements are not worth the slew of new problems. It pains me to say that because I know the developers are working their arsses off on TT. I LOVED this game in the past. I will repaste from Tally Ho who sums everything up in one post. I know it is difficult to read a whole thread of 50 posts on any issue due to the thread being hijacked on different issues.
I 100% agree with the following:

" couldnt agree more with hugo AND z. A tactical game of solo scrum is an impossible proposition. In my eyes, these goals are now possible.
1. Freebies.
2. Random skilless *dont gloat you lucky arse the scrum landed on my head when party B cracked scrum carrier C and the scrum flew over him" Goals. These are the uber lame, and once a scrum starts, 90% of the goals are of this type. Id rather see 90% be skill, like it used to be, but now, this game is a dice roll. I was playing scrum night before last with hugo I think and some others, and suddenly I realized how little fun I was having. The game has been arcaded, dumbed down. I think I could play blindfolded around the scrum and have just as much success as I am having now.

The solo scrum game used to be about driving and strategy and shooting.

Now, its destruction and chaos.

It gives me a headache and makes me indifferent.

I hate erraticness and unpredictability. When I reverse turn into someone and crack them hard, the scrum better land on my head or im going to get frustrated. Why is party C getting rewarded for my driving? Why did I just go from full health to death in under 3 seconds?

The problem with the bullets now is they are borderline click-hit at a close distance. Thats fine if the light had more than a sheet of paper covering its ass, but thats all its got, and worse, it cant turn for diddle.

It creates a sort of linear game situation. The people behind the scrum carrier light each other up like its going outa style, while the buzzards wait in essentially single file order for the scrum carrier to approach, then detroit foggy freeway into one another.

Then, its chaos. The scrum goals that arent freebs these days all go down like that. I hate it. It used to be that I could drive around in scrum and score, sometimes 3 goals without actually dying. It was thrilling to dodge and weave while I was smoking, headed towards the goal.

How do I try and score now? Drive away from everyone, hope the scrum randomly drops to me once someone scores or slides off, and grab a freeb myself.

Or maybe ill get a heavy, so the red levels dont make me vomit anymore.
----
I was really looking forward to the game updates for ADDITIONS, but instead, all were getting are ALTERATIONS. I feel like a greatly balanced game has been turned into one that is quicker to download. At this point, I seriously recommend a comparison between the two builds. The personality of the game has been changed, and the balance has been ruined. No one thats been there since the get go, us early buyers, have been going at it for this long because we wanted a doom or quake-like experience. Live//die//live//die is stupid. Plain//simple. If we were into death and destruction, wed go play Unreal. If we were into eratica, wed go play Dungeons and Dragons. If I thought id type this much, id go play microsoft word.

Please fix this soon!

Last edited: Friday, March 10, 2006 at 6:27:05 PM

Favorite lines...
"Thats fine if the light had more than a sheet of paper covering its ass, but thats all its got, and worse, it cant turn for diddly!"

Random skilless *dont gloat you lucky arse the scrum landed on my head when party B cracked scrum carrier C and the scrum flew over him" Goals.

Classic HOlarious stuff...

Aye. I reply after work.
( I wrote that.... )

I really want to have survivor Scrum. When you die you dont respawn until the the Scrum is Respawned i.e. Goal made, falls off map

Not a bad idea! There would be alot of subtle BMing problems though lol

Thats why there is the survivor part.

Yes I know but what im saying is the winner is going to be the one who stays in the back shooting and "accidently" shooting people in front of him....No one is going to get the scrum unless its right by the goal lol

Scoring will be worth a lot of points.

That doesnt make a difference since you dont get points for anything else lol the points system will still be the same...Lets say 10 = 1 goal.....it doesnt change it lol

2003 was the year we were all sober playing TT.

"That doesnt make a difference since you dont get points for anything else lol the points system will still be the same...Lets say 10 = 1 goal.....it doesnt change it lol"

I also meant a kill = 1

Aaaa I think I get you now...if im right are you saying BM is aloud then...because that doesnt sound like a bad idea in some ways

One of the better scrum proposals was for an alternative, time-base scoring system. Epic scrummage lasting multiple minutes would be worth more than three-second freebies. This idea would *seriously* alter scrum strategy. During close matches, games could be decided by individual points of greater value, instead of the usual "we just scored an awesome goal, o snap, nice freebie, it's back to even" problem.
With a big lead, would you no longer attempt to run out the clock because of increasing value of goals? With a big deficit, would you then try and run out the clock, hoping for the hail mary ?
interesting stuff.

Interesting point, Ho.

Does anyone still have a mac installer for the v1.0 version? With arts ip join script we could get a few people in for a game... Im curious about what the differences are...

(too much of a newbie player to remember the old version)

------------------

Also.. The survivor scrum version? Would people get their health back to normal after goals? Because it would be a real bummer if you were smoking to bits and someone scored and you have to try to survive a round and score with like one shot to go... Worth a shot... Sounds like might be quite tactical

Last edited: Saturday, March 11, 2006 at 11:30:06 AM

Heh, history always repeats itself.

I did notice the post is ages old, so, the opinion mind have changed. I do agree pretty much with the post, but freebies can be overcome if you are skilled enough. These days the format of indi scrum seems to be run around the map. There is no spirit of doing.

Interesting idea the score based scoring, ho. It would reward long runs with extra point(s) that could be pretty nice. Just wondering if people would start to try hold the flag longer by driving around the goal in hope of an extra point. Thought, you mentioned the awesome goal. Often in an epic goal area battle the flag keeps changing its owner fast. Thus the goal would be worth of usual amount points just like a freebie. I was thinking what if the points would be given by how long the flag has been on field not by how long you have hold the flag.

Fake edit: Ah, I read your post again and noticed you were talking about how long the flag has been on field. :)

@ Bloop

Yes, when I typed it I meant to say it.

Memphis, 44, and I and many others have always discussed the possibility of rewarding goals in scrum based on style...not just the length of a run, but the actual maneuvers and acrobatics involved in scoring a goal. Let's face it, there can be such a thing as a long freebie thanks to arrows and pads. However, scoring against a bunch of campers and BMers on your tail is worth a lot more than a lucky bounce score at the goal.

^ Sure we already reward divers in this civilized manners: 8.4, 5.9, etc. XD

I remember all the hoopla that came about with the release of vers 1.1. Some complained about the new physics while most agreed that the change in the shooting arc was the most noticeable difference. BT wanted to make the learning curve for shooting shorter and easier for the newbs, so they adopted a straight line fire. I personally hated that change as it was exactly that steep learning curve that I liked about the game and I was just getting good at it. As a result, we have the game played the way it is today with much less swiping and driving skills and way more bmming.

Since Team Scrum is my game of choice, MY BIGGEST REQUEST for any change is the creation of 2 randomly-spawning, colour-coded goals (think CTF in reverse). Dead tanks always spawn in the middle of these 2 goals and once a goal is scored, 2 new goals pop up and the flag spawns in the middle of these. This would greatly change the dynamics of the game we play now.

It seems that Dazzle and CannedSplam might have the right idea with their Rollerball mod. I haven't tested it with the script in place yet, but it's definitely the direction I'd like to see this game take.

Read more about it here: JANGLES PLEADS TO MODDING COMMUNITY

I always thought that it was a bit of a waste having such a straight line of fire... Would much prefer it with more curve to it... Only problem is that if you mod it with weapons to be like that now it just means that you end up shooting yourself by mistake if you point your turret too far down.

Humm...

Anyway as I was saying... V1.0 installer anywhere?

P.s the scrum idea sounds good, if I could script at all I'd give it a shot.

Last edited: Saturday, March 11, 2006 at 4:41:26 PM

Jangles comments are bit of a variation from our past soccer conversations - but it's essentially the same idea - and one game mode that really should have been included in the game from the outset.
also, it all really does stem from the bullet speed alteration. I begged (begged) for months to notch the changes down a bit so as to return the balance at least somewhat to the driving side, but deaf ears. Driving well remains much more satisfying than shooting wel. Shooting well, because it is so powerful, often covers up for major driving booboos booboos that used to reward the other player's skill with goals.
wheels up, guns down.

Last edited: Saturday, March 11, 2006 at 6:53:30 PM

The swipe ruled the game back then since it took forever to kill someone. I remember that you could shoot the flag loose too.

B

@Bloop, here's the windows v1.02 demo. I stumbled on it when I was looking for the Russian version.
thinktanks_demo_v102.exe

Last edited: Sunday, March 12, 2006 at 4:35:05 PM

Eh, to my knowledge, you could never shoot the flag loose.

^^ a, thats real sucky, I got a mac

Cheers anyway man