I just pray for the new orleans people to get out of harms way. I have been in a hurricane actually floyed. It was awful. I would get outta there if I were you. Currently Winds at 145 and expect to grow to 150-165 mph. There is a chance that it would weaken to 135mph storm but it is unlikely. I just wanted to pray that nobody would get hurt and not much damage. Good luck :S Some of my family is in New orleans. We worry about them. All are leaving but they have very expensive homes, and they may be destroyed if there is a direct hit. Good luck.

Last edited: Sunday, August 28, 2005 at 6:57:35 AM

A short aside for KBC:
_{This is where the communication disconnect happened: "Gimme something other than you're poor. "
The use of "you" in that sentence suggests that you were asking why people couldn't get *themselves* out. Not, why couldn't the government get them out, but why they themselves couldn't get out. It's pretty obvious that in a poverty stricken area there would be some who would be unable to do that.
But since that isn't what you meant...}

Return to your regularly scheduled thread...

Last edited: Friday, September 02, 2005 at 9:04:49 PM

The lack of critical thinking in here is astounding.
I have to go to work, so I can't throw my titanium-tipped harpoons around until I get back.
Sheena, do they teach sociology in your high school?
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/katrina.response/index.html
http://e-community.blogspot.com/2005/09/americas-poorest.html
^ read.
Blaming victims is such a boring republican strategy.

Last edited: Friday, September 02, 2005 at 9:30:33 PM

It must be a lot easier to look at life in a black or white manner. How dare there be any anomalies in especially a poverty stricken city.

Yep, it's their fault. Leave them there. Everyone should pull out now and say tough luck Sparky as they leave. Yep, I agree, the Fed acted in a very preciptous manner. One heck of a job Homeland Security has done. Super. Swell. Grand. They should add another head for Bush on Mt. Rushmore. He deserves it, because everything has gone so well.

Mularkey.

Last edited: Friday, September 02, 2005 at 9:46:14 PM

Look, Tally I completly agree with you, bush needs to go. 911, the hurricane with bush has really lead us down the road. I swear we are heading into a recession! Everything is heading down hill ever since bush came into power. KBC, what are you thinking! I have lived in near SF for a while. Did you hear the republician that said " We shouldnt rebuild, we should buldoze neworleans. Who builds in a bowl. Think about San francisco and LA. When theres a earthquake people rebuild, thats stubborness." What kind of idiot would say that!. Maybe we should buldoze SF and LA if he thinks that. The ignorance with the goverment is crazy. Bush doenst know how to handle something liek this. Thats why he goes to otehr people! I just cant wait to clean up this mess. I swear bush needs to go. Why do the worst things happen while the Bush is in office! XO

Last edited: Friday, September 02, 2005 at 11:07:24 PM

Tally have you ever been through a Hurricane? Have you been without electric and water for 5 days? DO NOT TELL ME WHAT I KNOW there are just as many people here with no money transportation and such....and we have been through the same thing we have lost loved ones we have lost our homes we've lost our jobs..BUT our Govenor knew what he was doing and he knew what to do in a catastrophic situation
These people are blaming the wrong Goverment it's not a federal issue it was and is a State issue from the mayor on up to the Govenor yes the Federal Goverment has to come in and help put things back together and help those that are in need that is what Fema is for but it's not thier fault that the State did nothing it's not Bushes fault that the State did not prepare for this that state had plenty of resources to contact for this situation they had plenty of time......But they didn't
And as far as those people that are stuck now how many do you really think thought this was going to be a disaster? How many said they were not going to leave their
homes no matter what?How many do you think knew what a cat 4 or 5 Hurricane was? How many do you think said ahhh man is this gonna be cool I wanna see this?
I have been in situations where I had no money no transportation lived pay check to pay check and had to run from a Hurricane with my daughter and no husband to care for us...I found a church that took us in....When Hurricane Andrew hit
My daughter and I lived in my car for 3 weeks because I had lost my job and my apartment to the storm but I took care of my daughter and myself I didn't complain about what we had gone through I put us here knowing what a Hurricane could do
Sooooo in all bottem line no ands ifs or butts those people should have headed the warnings even if they had to walk out.. The State should have pulled thier resourses to get those people out Not The Feds The State knew this was going to happen and once again they did nothing....Has anyone learned what Florida and SouthCarolina
Texas and other states have been through from a catastrophic Hurricane? Do people not pay attention? Fools.....And I never said they do not need our help now I said they are to blame for thier own stupidity..And really do you think it's in thier best interest to rape and shoot others? Burn buildings down?Steal items that could not prolong your life? Do you really know what your talking about Tally?

The states dont have the recourses to deal with this.

Uh some of these things I'd rather not have read.

Hey Chief good to hear your going to lend a hand btw. Amazing how fast you get back here for the obligatory right-wing
reach around. Don't let sister Mary catch ya! :)

Last edited: Friday, September 02, 2005 at 11:47:58 PM

What I meant Cloud is they had the Resouces on how to prepare those people... How to get those people outyour only talking about a small city your not talking New York City L.A. They only needed to get those that lived in the fish bowl out were not talking the whole state and they did have the resourses to do that and they sat around with thier fingers shoved up thier back sides they had 5 days they knew this was coming
and I never said that the states had to figure a way to help those now I'm talking before this all happened.... YES they did they never prepared these people for what could happen... Here in Florida it's taught in the schools on how to prepare for hurricanes in every gro store there are pamphlets telling you what to do where to go who to contact maps to track the hurricanes in our phone books we have hurricane tracking maps and instructions on what to do were they informed? From what I see and hear nope whose fault Bushes? Nope Federal Goverment nope..The state had all the info they needed that is Provided by the federal Goverment and they have never bothered to implement it...they would have been prepard to get those out that needed it if they had been paying attention and teaching

Sheena's right, even if these people were dirt freaking poor and didn't have cars to drive away in, they knew what was coming! I don't care who you are, if someone says there is a frikking category six hurricane heading straight for your city, which btw happens to be more feet under the ocean than it is away from it, you can walk a mile until you are above sea level and have shelter!!! Sure the government could have done something, but when it comes down to it, todays government is completely composed of big buisnessmen who care about nothing except personal gain!!!! Man, if any of you guys haven't realized that FINE POINT yet, you'd better learn real fast that you can't trust your life with anyone in this world, ESPECIALLY CAPTALIST AS*****!!!!!

-Saint Jimmy, General Politician Flamer

And BTW, I don't give a s**** whether or not they shoot rapists and looters, and neither should you!!! The world is better off without petty theives stealing thousands from people who aren't there to stop them!!! And have any of you ever been raped in your life? I sure as heck haven't, but I hope never to be, as it has been said that it is a very unpleasent expierence!!! People like that are just as bad as Osama and Al Qaida, and maybe worse. I say kill em if they do it, and by god they are going to!!!!

Last edited: Saturday, September 03, 2005 at 2:31:11 AM

Gee, you need to take a chill pill. Would you rather die then take some water or food? Think about it. Yes bush's people dont care about other people execpt there family and friends. They are inconsiderate. Deep down inside they dont care. They only want money and dont care about the future. Then your talking about global warming!

@ Az

LOL - I hear you. Nothing to do but wait at this point. Boring as hell.

@Sheena and Saint Jimmy.

Do me a favor.

Print your above posts and simply ask someone you respect to read and comment. A teacher. A minister. A smart neighbor. A counselor. A police officer. A fireman. A doctor. Take your pick. Anybody.

After reading your thoughts, if they don't have an expression of disbelief...and if they don't stammer and seem unsure what to say to you next....lessen your respect for them and go show it to someone else. If, instead however, they look up from the paper with bewilderment in their eyes and begin to tell you at great length why you're wrong -- gloriously wrong -- listen to them. Listen real hard.

-44 (walking away from the computer shaking his head)

Last edited: Saturday, September 03, 2005 at 12:47:59 AM

It's Apparent you have not read my posts or your just picking out one or two thngs start from the beginning....

Wrong, again.

Last edited: Saturday, September 03, 2005 at 12:55:29 AM

I know 44, good thinking.

St jimmy you gotta know that kids may be reading this. I dont want them to see how awful you have to put your words for people to make since of them. At least use **** or whatever.

What's wrong with what I said the truth?experiance?Facts? If you really think that
they had no clue or they couldn't have prevented these people from becoming trapped
your living in a fantasy world....and here is a case in point an old couple decided not to leave until it was too late became trapped in there car with an alligator circling thier
the car give me a reason they decided not to leave?or waited till the last minute?How many of you have been through this? How many of you went without? Stop picking out just a few sentances read the whole post..or maybe I have not made myself clear
the people there do need our help but they would have not been stranded if the state would have been prepared and if they had listened and gotten out when they had plenty of time to do so but no one really took the time to find out how...and by the way I have a sister who is a fire fighter and a brother inlaw who is in the national guard

A lot of the national gaurd is in Iraq area. They should be used for this situation, Not for bush's stupid ideas. For the millionth time they are poor. Do you think they could afford to go?

Edit- So many people dont even have cars.

Last edited: Saturday, September 03, 2005 at 1:19:32 AM

I have been in situations where I had no money no transportation lived pay check to pay check and had to run from a Hurricane with my daughter and no husband to care for us...I found a church that took us in....When Hurricane Andrew hit
My daughter and I lived in my car for 3 weeks because I had lost my job and my apartment to the storm but I took care of my daughter and myself I didn't complain about what we had gone through I put us here knowing what a Hurricane could do
Sooooo in all bottem line no ands ifs or butts those people should have headed the warnings even if they had to walk out.. The State should have pulled thier resourses to get those people out Not The Feds The State knew this was going to happen and once again they did nothing....Has anyone learned

Sympathetic threads turning into political threads sure are annoying, :P so I will be careful as to not get involved XD , and yes, good luck to New Orleans :S

FEMA supposedly had simulations of a Cat-3 hurricane hitting New Orleans back in '99 (and the results were well known by many people), so apparently someone should have been concentrating on the following things:
1: Work on protecting NO from flooding and hurricane damage.
2: Making plans to evacuate the entire city as quickly as possible if one were to come.
3: Working on systems to predict hurricanes before they hit.

They worked pretty hard on the third one, but didn't follow through on the second or first did they?

-Jimmy, hater of politicians and recent editer of explicit post

Also:

Please don't make fun of my redneck neighbors. Just because I am forced to live in a hick town doesn't mean you have to tease me about it. :(

One cannot discuss things like this with the self-righteous.
Congratulations to the survivors in here.
Your strength doesn't mean the weak, the poor, and the less fortunate should all be buried.
Maybe you've read this before:

Where does it say, "Welcome to America, land of the wealthy and enabled. For the rest of you, tough shit , and enjoy your swim."
*
You want us to stop picking out a few sentences, so I compiled a list of your characterizations of the people who, for whatever reason, were there when the storm hit. Those of us who disagree with you, sheena, glean that in your world, there is one survivor in New Orleans. He is a man, poor, black, stupid, careless, a criminal, a murderer, a rapist, an opportunist, a thrill-seeker, and a deviant. Have I missed anything?
*
Lastly, I was born in Miami Beach. Save it.

Last edited: Saturday, September 03, 2005 at 3:38:08 AM

Save what Talley truth? Have you put your nose in so many books that you have no clue what life is really about?Why would you put race into this Tally?You missed the whites that are there you shoulda've said.............. He is a man, poor, black, (white )stupid, careless, a criminal, a murderer, a rapist, an opportunist, a thrill-seeker, and a deviant. Have I missed anything?...........And as a matter of fact you did......
The children that had no choice but to stay with the parents that were to ignorant to get them out of harms way wether walking biking pushing a stroller carrying them on thier backs....And by the way we are talking about getting out of a small area what they call the fish bowel we are not talking evacuating a whole state...and if you were born in Miami why are you even arguing with me on this you know as well as I people do what they want when it comes to these storms no matter what the Goverment says
And once again I'll have to repeat myself....
Sooooo in all bottem line no ands ifs or butts those people should have headed the warnings even if they had to walk out.. The State should have pulled thier resourses to get those people out Not The Feds The State knew this was going to happen and once again they did nothing....Has anyone learned

If the goverment were able to shell out some money to bring busses out to new orleans to evacuate the poor do you think they will go? Im sure the mass majority would go. Have you not seen the news? People wish they could leave but they cant. I dont think walking would solve the problem. B)

Your not paying attention^ they (had) is the word to get those people out before this storm accured as a matter of fact all the ones that have read my post were not paying attention....This is a point that I was trying to make people wake up and smell the coffee..

Did bush or the goverment want to do it? No. I didnt hear bush talk about this before the storm! Im pretty sure he didnt care B)

You don't get it the Govenor never asked for help until it was over it was not Bushes Problem before the storm it was the States problem they were given the resources to get the help they needed they could have pulled the help from the surrounding cities
but they didn't....are you people that blind

The whole state doesnt have the power or meterials to do that! Were a whole nation! Im not going to argue any more! I hate it when threads like these become arguements!

Watch this, from fox news yesterday.
http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Hannity-Colmes-Smith-Rivera-freak-in-NO.mov
Sheena, until you discover punctuation, paragraphs, and other basic components of the way that we communicate, I'm done reading you. I don't like being personally offensive, but I will because you seem to demand it and watching this disgrace on television has boiled my blood for enough time this day. You spend no time in thought before you post, and what you actually do post is written in the tone of someone who must have a limb on fire.
Stop yelling and screaming, stop your vitriol, stop your stream of hate. If you cannot accept the total failure of the federal government here after watching the movie I linked to above, start a blog.
What you don't get , Sheena, is that it isn't over. People are still starving, suffering, and dying. Turn on your television. Open a newspaper. Do something .

Last edited: Saturday, September 03, 2005 at 9:37:17 AM

I do watch the news Tally At least I know that if I'm in harms way I'll survive...for the rest that have posted here bashing me for what is the real truth will wait for someone to come take care of them.. And would let thier children suffer for thier ignorance.
And I relize thier are still thousands of people still stranded Tally but like I have said before... The Govenor knew this would happen and nothing was done.
And where in my post is there hate?I'm sitting here arguing the truth,facts you keep talking about what is now I'm talking what was than..so it tells me you payed no mine to anything that I had said..you were to busy looking for punctuation marks and if I dotted my I's and crossed my t's.
and yes you do bash people Tally I have read many of your posts and your always bashing someone for thier view points..I have helped many in my lifetime and I will continue to do so... And I have had my trials and tribulations in life and have learned from ignorance..It's people like you that scare me because you are so blinded on what is really going...And if you have been watching the news do you relize those people that need our help are turning this into a race issue? This whole situation has nothing to do with race...This has nothing to do with rich or poor.....if you are so smart Tally give me the reason why those pepole were not prepared for a disaster like this? Why did the mayor and Govenor of that state allow those people to become trapped?why did they put all those people in a building with hardly any food or water?
Tally you need to go into politics you would be great at it always blaming someone else for the trouble at hand and not taking responsability for your own mistakes

All those schools buses!!! OMG and they could not take those and use those to get those people out before the storm?

GO SHEENA!!! This is firstly a state issue. The governor should of had a plan in place B4 all this happened. Now it's Bush's faul HAHAHA! I love it! Get a grip people. I notice many of you are good a finger pointing and nothing else.

What we need to do is be together on this and do all we can to help. The government is not a baby sitter, this is not a socialist or communist state. This is a country of the people, by the people, for the people. I have personally offered to bring in a hurricane victims family into my home until things get better. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO? Grrrr. XO

^^ A Category 5 is their own mistake? Have you not watched or read the comments by those stranded saying if they could have left they would have. You seem to be focusing on a minute fraction of the population that is causing trouble.

Why were the troops immediately offered by New Mexico turned away by the Federal Government. Who was going to bring and drive the buses to take people from harms way when even a large portion of the police officers abandoned their posts?

A Category 5 hurricane is the responsibility of the Federal Government. A hurricane of this magnitude could never be managed by a state. Tell me one state that could evacuate tens of thousands of people without major assistance from the Fed?

This has nothing to do with rich or poor? Take a good look at who is left.

Sheena, I have to be very honest with you. Your thoughts on this matter disturb me greatly. Not attacking you as a person, just on this particular catastrophe.

Did nobody else see the officer on television lambasting the "cowards(officers)" that abandonded them? So you really think that Mr. Bus Driver was going to rush in and rescue these people? Mularkey. Most of the blame for this nightmare is on the Federal Government and not those left behind as some of you have stated.

Think about this. Let's say there was a way to remove the tens of thousands of people. What plan was in place once they left? Where were these buses to stop? What plans were there for shelters in other states? I can answer that question. There were none. Still think this was only LA's problem? Should this really have all been the responsibility of the 2nd poorest state in the Union?

Last edited: Saturday, September 03, 2005 at 2:20:42 PM

^ Weak

^ You need to think about what you posted.

You contradicted yourself. Yes, the Federal Government is the public servant and they failed those folks.

And again and again and again.......You are talking about what is happening now I have talked about before the storm! The state Florida has done everything they can to help prevent people from dying in a Hurricane they have taught our children in the schools they keep us informed..they open up churches schools the state uses whatever means they have to protect us and warn us they have policemen passing out flyers going from door to door telling you where to go and if you have no way to get there they are prepared to get you out.. The Governor could have called Jeb bush and asked what do I do? Did she no..Did she ask for help before the storm no she didn't.You forget I know the fear of what it's like to have your whole life ripped from you because of a storm. Losing loved ones that were just ripped away from rising waters or a tornado touching down having homes implode from the force of a down draft
having an Oaktree come through your roof while your sitting in the dark waiting for the storm to pass..just sitting there watching your whole life be blown away..Begging your mother to leave and she tells you no. Nothing will take her from her home.
picking bugs off your child because there is no way to take a bath watching your child get bit up from the mosqitos that have invaded from the standing water.Spending hours on the highway trying to get to safety only to find out there is no where to go
so you sleep in your car. And praying to God that you do not become a victem of some sick bastards thoughts..But I have chosen to live here and I will die here If I choose to stay during a storm than no one is to blame but myself

@Sheena

Guess what? We do understand your points. These attacks are not the result of you being misunderstood or us not reading your posts carefully.

You are saying that two things are to blame for people failing to evacuate: 1) Lack of state government preparation; and/or 2) Poor judgement by many individuals.

Did both of those things contribute to the scope of this tragedy? Yes.

Would have better state government preparation by Louisiana, ahead of the storm, resulted in more people being evacuated? Yes.

Did many individuals, with ability to do otherwise, demonstrate poor judgement in choosing not to evacuate? Yes.

OK, now. Do you see that we understand the points you are making Sheena?

Now listen carefully.

No reasonable amount of state government preparation could have prevented this catastrophe. No reasonable amount of good judgement could have prevented this tragedy. Your expectations are way too high. Your expectations are unreasonable -- they are utopian.

A Category 5 hurricane hitting New Orleans is, quite plain and simply, going to create a catastrophe and tremendous death and misery...no matter what.

When you look at all of those suffering people and choose to pass blame on their poor judgement, or the state's poor preparation, you are ignoring many other important causes and factors -- your focus is too narrow. But worst of all, it's ignorant, callous and unsympathetic.

Last edited: Saturday, September 03, 2005 at 4:18:06 PM

The only good thing to come out of disasters like this is that we will learn from mistakes and be better prepared.
Well hopefully....

@Tally

This isn't a whole lot different than arguing with JJ, Chief and Rabban...is it?

I do have sympathy...at the fact that these people trusted thier lives to someone else
The only being that you should put your trust in is the almighty God himself or what ever higher power you believe in..The good lord gave us the ability to care for ourselfs
when others can't or won't if I was put through that I would have started walking I know I would have been better off.
And I never said that they could have prevented the storm from coming or that they could have saved every life but they should have been better prepared they've know it for years this would happen... Happened once before...and for your information I have cried many days for the children that are suffering because of this...I have donated my money for those children..I have asked my daughter for her baby's clothes to give
I have bought baby formula and baby food for those children when I saw that the store was having a food drive...You can not and will not convince me that these people who had children could have at least tried to get Them out no matter how they did it
The state failed to provide enough information to the people to help them better survive in this kind of situation...And one of the biggest problems with people is they think ohh that could never happen to me

This hurricane sounds familiar to that one bible story...noah's ark...

I dont have time posting these things but you totally got me worked up! I dont have time to post things like this. This will be the last big post to make people understand since they dont have all of the facts. I spent a lot of time into this one, Im not going to adress it again.

Sheena,

Few points. The city and state government did not have the resources. No state government has the resources to deal with this level of disaster. Very few federal governments on the planet have the resources. The US government happens to be one of the few that does. Louisiana is the poorest of the poor. Almost a third of the population lives below the poverty line. I understand that 100,000 of the people who live in NO do not have a car, and use public transportation. When the government said evacuate and go to the Convention Center or the Superdome, they did what they were told by the authorities. Unlike you, they didn't have a car to sleep in. You are probably more privileged than they in what resources you have. You say that there are just as many people in Florida without money. Unfortunately, that simply is not true. The median household income in Louisiana is something like $27,000 which places it last or second to last in the US. Even for a wealthy state, and Florida is quite a bit wealthier than Louisiana (and has the patronage of the governors brother in the White House for connections - just as Bush had his dad at Yale, rich men's welfare, to get him in school) it would be impossible for any single state to take this on. We need the resources of the entire country (including the private sector and maybe the 20 plus other countries which have offered us help), and by definition that means the federal government. I hear echoes of the old southern states rights arguments here. Let's blame the poor people for their poverty! There are cultural differences in how easy or difficult it is for some to ask for help. It appears to be something that you dont like to do and yet we live in an interdependent village and we must all pitch in and help each other in crises.

You happen to live in a state where the governor is the presidents brother. Do you truly believe that Florida gets turned down when it needs federal resources. It probably doesnt even make the media radar. You can't simply pull school buses as a state or city government. If it is federalized or declared a disaster area, or put under military control, then maybe.

The children had fools for parents? I was blown away by how these parents who had few resources fought for their kids and their families to get a vacationing Bush in a hammock with an ice tea to finally sacrifice by ending his 35 day vacation 2 days early to "fly by" - probably to see how much this hurricane would hurt his rich businessman friends. It appears that he only came back when it became clear that he need to appear as tho he cared, and do some spin control. As the mayor of NO said, even then, it seemed to involve a lot of backslapping and congratulating themselves on what a great job they (Bush and FEMA) were doing. Even then he avoided (as he always does) those most in need in New Orleans. Perhaps he felt, as you seem to, that they only had themselves to blame and as someone said on the thread "start swimming."

You said that they were raping children. I didn't hear that. You also said they were killing people. There were reports of this, but many many people simply died and are still dying from dehydration, neglect, lack of food, or medical care. It is curious that you focus on the very few instances out of the several hundred thousand of extremely stressed out people where violence occurred. Most were amazed that there were not many more instances of violence. I guess that the federal government also focused on those few instance of violence, rather than the people who were continually dying off around the perimeter of the convention center.

You live in Florida and have considerably more experience with hurricanes than others. (I doubt you'd have much of an idea what to do in case of earthquake!) You must know that the vast majority of hurricanes end up not posing a threat. This one was weakening as it approached land. It will be recorded as a Category 4 not a 5 at landfall, and as not making a direct hit on NO, and yet it did considerably more damage than Camille. You can't know that kind of thing until after the fact. 20-20 hindsight you're talking. You say if people knew..... Well people didn't know. Consider again that the majority of these storms die out or veer out to sea. I understand that the last 4 hurricanes to approach NO did die out so those who stayed, including those who didnt have the resources to leave, felt it was the right thing to do. Should people have begun walking their 87-year-old grandmothers and their 5 and 6 year old kids, each time there was a hurricane threat. There would probably have been as many deaths had the city government said start walking, but they didnt. They said come to the convention center and the superdome. We have never had a storm prior to this where this would not have been safe enough. Again, your 20-20 hindsight. They would have lost their minimum wage jobs for missing work and been in worse shape. If they knew, yes. 20-20 hindsight again.

Thanks for taking the time reading this.

Peace,
Cloud B)

Finally, DJ Wings has something to talk about! Or quote...
Found it right after me and my mom were talking about hip-hop censorship.

I don't think bus has anything against black people, but he doesn't really think thay exist... 80% of all the poeple stranded are balck. And they say we are not racist today. Such an equal operunity country we have here. If we do not think black people are abused, we are very stupid and blinded by our own luxury.

I commend you on your thoughts but I disagree and my brother inlaw diagrees and my sister and my husband ( had to keep him from putting his two cents in) and my father and my niebor norman unless you have been through a devastating hurricane you have no clue what you are talking about or have any idea on how many more lifes could have been saved if they were informed and as far as Jeb Bush is concerned our
State of Florida has implented evacuation information since I can remember has nothing to with Bush..I agree you can not stop a cat 4 or 5 from coming I agree you can not stop the destruction I agree that some lifes will be lost you can't save everyone even if you try to save yourself you may not make it.. And this is also my last post on this subject this is a no win situation and really it shouldn't have been
it had started out with my own thoughts which since I live in a so called free country I should be able to express..... And that is what makes up this huge world of ours people who have thier own minds and sometimes rub others the wrong way because they believe in somthing other than the norm.. But you know what there will be more of my kind that will rub you the wrong way or disagree with your political view points
and I will always have to put up with your political view points and your way of thinking
and I might agree or disagree but that is my choice

Last edited: Saturday, September 03, 2005 at 7:04:58 PM

Damn, I just realized that we're only halfway through hurricane season... :(

Are all of your punctuation keys broken?
Another time wasting thread.
Sheena, yee of vast and unquestionable knowledge surrounding natural disasters, this is what people smarter than us are saying. Maybe you should write them an e-mail explain to them why they don't get it either. Perhaps, in light of contradictory opinions, you will take a minute and reconsider yours. I think you don't understand the poverty of many of the people who got stuck down there, just as, as you say, we cannot understand what it's like to live through a hurricane (allegedly).
http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Anderson-Cooper-Trent-Lott-Katrina.wmv
Listen to the mayor, Listen to the freaking mayor.
http://www.slate.com/id/2125494/nav/tap2/
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001054151
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001054354
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/search/article_display.jsp?schema=&vnu_content_id=1001053700
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/search/article_display.jsp?schema=&vnu_content_id=1001054091
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/03/national/nationalspecial/03storm.html?hp&ex=1125720000&en=c39cf45e7f030e63&ei=5094&partner=homepage
http://www.nytimes.com/pages/national/nationalspecial/
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2005_08_28.php#006397
If it's not a debacle, why does everybody seem to think it is? Why is the United States being offered assistance from Europe, Mexico, and freaking Cuba?
None of us want to here anymore about how you survived. Your situation was yours. This is theirs.
You should spend some time researching the federal government. This internet your using, that freedom of speech, it's all their gift to you. We pay taxes, and it has a responsibility to protect us from things that it can, and if it cannot, it has a responsibility not to let people wade through a shit river for 6 days without food or water and medicine for those that need it and those that will.
Accept that you don't live there, accept that you don't have their jobs, their families, their situations, their contexts, their problems, their desperation. Accept that you do not know, that you cannot understand, why some chose to stay, why many had to.
http://www.andrewsullivan.com/index.php?dish_inc=archives/2005_08_28_dish_archive.html#112576191403113173
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/katrina.response/index.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/02/AR2005090200670_2.html
Talk less, read more.

Last edited: Saturday, September 03, 2005 at 7:32:50 PM

My god Sheena, you re a real piece of work.
If you weren't so persistent I would have thought your posts were a clumbsy and macabre attempt at sarcastic humor.
That others can applaud you is truly mind numbing.
Keep sipping the Kool Aid and defending Bush's callous inaction.

Geesh, guys. Does bullying Sheena help? (no, I don't mean everyone...)

I admit that what she wrote put me off, but there is some truth in what she says. I'm not defending everything she said, but she makes a point that works for many (if not most) people.

If you live in hurricane country, you have been encouraged for years (since hurricane Andrew) to make sure there is enough fresh water and nonperishable food around to get you through two weeks!! You should also be prepared to leave and arrange a place to go (relatives, friends, whatever). Mandatory evacuation orders should be heeded. The people who didn't do that put themselves in great peril.

Having said that, I now will probably bear the wrath of others. Before you start firing, let me finish.

Two weeks of supplies is something that I do not have in my home. I will soon. I live near Vancouver Island, which is a very active region for earthquakes. If a catastrophic event happens - like a nearby volcano blows- I'm in trouble right now. I've been lazy. I need to do more to take care of my family that way. I'm like most people and think the worst won't happen- but it does sometimes.

I'm fortunate. While not wealthy, I have the means to make these emergency measures happen. I can store things in my garage or shed, and when the worst happens, I can cope. Not everyone can say that.

The people who were sheltering in N.O. Were in a bad situation. They were without the means to take care of themselves. They relied on others. There was not enough preplanning in place. The victims were expecting someone to help them, and the people who would help weren't properly prepared. There wasn't enough done in advance. There was enough time to mobilize school busses, but no plan to do it. The busses sat unused and are now flooded. Too bad they weren't used to evacuate, but too late now.

Unfortunately, we have a penchant for wanting to lay blame. Getting angry with Sheena isn't going to help. Blaming the people for not evacuating won't help. Blaming the government won't help relieve the current suffering, either. (But believe me- it will help later. Don't forget that... For later.)

I understand Sheena's viewpoint. Everyone who had the ablility to, should have left. Some could have saved their lives by leaving. Some made bad decisions. Everyone doesn't use great judgement all the time either, for a variety of reasons. That doesn't mean we leave them to die. No one deserves to be abandoned like that.

We have a great community here at PTT. Sheena's been a great member of it. Don't toss that away with your righteous indignation. Help those in need, and save the indignation for those who earned it.