I just pray for the new orleans people to get out of harms way. I have been in a hurricane actually floyed. It was awful. I would get outta there if I were you. Currently Winds at 145 and expect to grow to 150-165 mph. There is a chance that it would weaken to 135mph storm but it is unlikely. I just wanted to pray that nobody would get hurt and not much damage. Good luck :S Some of my family is in New orleans. We worry about them. All are leaving but they have very expensive homes, and they may be destroyed if there is a direct hit. Good luck.

Last edited: Sunday, August 28, 2005 at 6:57:35 AM

Yeah good luck to you all. We have the same here in karratha australia only we call then cyclones.
Very scary things. Hope the worst of it misses populated areas.
Squid

Yes, My prayers go out to all as well. Prayer is a very powerful thing!! :)

State College has gotten hit by 50 mph winds, which for around here is a LOT! I can't manage to think about the crushing force of 100, let alone 150. Just hope no one has any high houses or tree's nearby. Your are in our prayers.

Right before it hit winds were 185 at one point of time. It may have been the strongest hurricane ever one person says at NOAA. Gust could have been over 200 at one point. Thankfully it died a little and hit at 143 mph. Quite a bit of damage but not as bad as it could have. Global warming!!! 1 cat 5 last year and 1 cat 5 this year or is it just 1.... :o :S

Lol... Did u see the news reporter start to fly away... One of her camera members grabbed her though.

This is a sad, unfortunate situation, especially for the 80% who evacuated and still got nailed in Biloxi. For the 20% who stayed in NO, I don't have a lot of sympathy. Are they supprised that conditions are difficult and they're without power? Sheesh!

I also don't go for the comparison that this is the "American Tsunami". I think that's insulting, to compare 60-some deaths to 200K+ dead in Indonesia, let alone the difference in property damage. Come on guys, get a grip.

^What? Good grief man.

Some people didn't have the means to leave.

Isn't New Orleans one of, if not, our poorest large cites?

I just saw a report that stated roughly one third of the over 250k that did not leave or could not leave may be dead. Now they have to deal with having no water, food and the coming diseases. Those people are wading around in a toxic sea.

You should delete your post.

Well! For me Its a lot different. I had some family that lived near the French cordor! Im very sad. I care about both situations! But since its my family, I feel a lot more pain! I did go around my neighboorhood when the Tsunami happen! Im much more sad because I know some of my family is down there!

Yup I got hit down my House got kindda Broken not fully so I live in a Temporary House with my Aunts in New Jersey Hope I Get Me House Back I Loved It :S

Well, I have gotten some more information on this. My comment was based on those people who hear the warnings and decide to stay because they've "ridden out storms before" or "I've lived here all my life so I ain't leaving now". So in their case, they put themselves in a difficult situation. Since then, I've heard some reports on folks in the hospital being unable to move and I saw some elderly people being part of those being rescued now. Of course, that makes me wonder. Why are they able to be rescued now, but not evacuated before? I really don't know the circumstances of their evacuation procedures either. Was everyone required to leave on their own or was any transportation provided?

But then that's all hindsight at this point. Folks are in trouble and they need help, regardless of how they got into the situation.

Personally, I'd be more concerned with the looters and the breakdown of the rule of law than anything else. I think you can find a means to survive as long as some jerk isn't standing at the ready to rip you off or kill you.

Then I wonder about another thing...should New Orleans be rebuilt? I know its home to millions, but its really not a good location for a city. Wouldn't it be cheaper to build fresh a few miles inland, at least at sea level, instead of trying to clean up what's there? I'm sure we're going to stay there, but I wish someone would discuss the possibility of moving.

Did you know new orleans is one of the poorest large cities in the US? People cant afford to leave! People dont have that kind of money! The gas prices are high as it is, and to rent a car and pay for gas to get out of harms way! If you notice A large number of people are poor and "cant!" leave. Even though they are poor they have common sence. Im sure they wanted to leave but were they able? No. Of course there are the people that say " I have lived here all my life, I went through other hurricanes and my house has been ok." I have heard that, but im pretty sure a mass majority are poor and cant leave. Peace out

I agree, it is a very sad thing. I hope that all will come out well.

Guys (& gals),

Americans should hang their heads in shame over how these poor people are being treated. I am, quite frankly, disgusted at what I am hearing regarding reports from the ground. Here it is 96 hours after this happened and people are no better off today than they were on Monday. I mean - Jesus - if you can drive a bus to the Superdomeyou can dang sure drive a water truck down there.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9156612/

I feel so strongly about this I am going to post this in other relevant threads.

Judging by the speed of the winds and the level of barometric pressure.....

(insane flash diagram link:)
http://www.usatoday.com/weather/storms/hurricane/ghurricane_scale/flash.htm

...... Would Katrina be the first ever category six hurricane? The difference between 4 and 5 is 24 mph. 155+24 = 179 mph (edit: yes that is stupid math, but notice that the difference between categories shrinks as wind speeds increase?). Wasn't it said that

????
To me this is an extremely scary benchmark that has just been broken on the heads of people that weren't capable of getting to safety, and that should have been helped before those poooorrrr oil companies....

Last edited: Friday, September 02, 2005 at 1:43:41 AM

^ could be right, but wasn't cassie back in the summer of 69! Dern dern Daw do dee dow- hrmmm... Sry. Bac in the summer of 64 cassie got pretty bad... Or was it cate... Catherin? But if I remeber, they had somewhere around 180 mph winds... So did agnus, didn't they?

Last edited: Friday, September 02, 2005 at 1:53:57 AM

This is late, but I gotta agree with Rabban 100%.
What's happening down there is terrible ...but why did people stick around when 80% of the population left!!?
If someone said a terrorist attack would happen in 3 days, the entire goveronment would mobilize.

They didn't.

Last edited: Friday, September 02, 2005 at 5:18:41 AM

I said that^

New orleans is a somewhat poor. Im not saying all people but a large majority. Think about it. Did they really have a choice. It just would be too expenive. Im sure people didnt think it would be this bad. I belive a person that doesnt care would say something like that.

Peace out

EDIT- What do you think is a good excuse! Do you think they wanted to stay. They have common sence! Im sure if they wanted to leave they would say "yes!" Think about it a little bit. Im very supprise that people would say that.

Last edited: Friday, September 02, 2005 at 5:17:14 AM

KBC where would most of them go? Most of them left probably live paycheck to paycheck. I don't have to listi the reasons why because it's simple, some people are incredibly dumb and others could not logistically pull it off.

V Dude, KBC couldn't have been joking more. Use some sense.

Last edited: Friday, September 02, 2005 at 5:38:40 AM

I live paycheck to paycheck.
Don't tell me that you can't leave town. Where there's a will there's a way.

Just ditched the baiting comments I made. That was just stupid on my part. Sorry.

Gimme something other than you're poor.

I guess you could walk but where would you walk too. You cant predict where its going to hit exactly. " Oh we can go 15 miles east. That might not help. I dont know. I just know that being poor would make it hard to get out of new orleans. " If theres a will theres a way:" I agree with that but whats the way? :o

^???
3 days advance warning and you can't understand it's time to leave? If you were told a terrorist attack was just 3 days away you're telling me that you would just sit around?

Most of the people stuck were likely homeless or on the verge of in the first place. No money, no vehicle and no way to afford a plane ticket. Walking is not gonna put 'em out of harms way, not in time, so shelter is the only option. The French Quarter may be something, but the surrounding areas are very poor and full of people of minimal means. I been there a few times and have seen them all over.
Nice thread.

^too bad modern technology didn't warn anyone in advance.
The government couldn't possibly have forseen this and have a plan.

Last edited: Friday, September 02, 2005 at 6:39:01 AM

^^ I agree

^ look, you dont think being poor is a excuse? You need more to be convinced? What else do you want?

I don't know, maybe. Planning and enforcing that level of evacuation in that amount of time would possible, I suppose. All I am saying is a lot of folks without the most basic of neccessities, like a TV or radio, live in that area and may not even be able to get to a destination in time to leave. So I feel sad for them, they lost what bit they had and are scared to death. As for the government and the response to this, that's another story, but doesn't lesson my sympothy for the people who will suffer and hopefully pull through this mess. Planning to donate to the cause, and as soon as that town is running again I will be there to donate some more......

^not sure what that means 56k.
We've all seen photos that are worse than a few elderly people sitting around. I know you've been in central america and made a difference, but I'm having a huge problem with the response to something that EVERYONE knew would happen.

Think I'm being sarcastic?
Good luck to everyone in California.
_{Bet you can't wait to see how the response handles everyone out there after an earthquake.}

Last edited: Friday, September 02, 2005 at 7:20:42 AM

KBC, what the hell are you saying, dude.
If everyone knew it would happen, where the hell is government ?
There are no excuses for this. I can't wait for Bush to end.
KBC, if you're blaming the poor for having nowhere to go, go ahead and stop posting.
forever.

BTW republicans, in case you didn't realize this earlier, this is one of the reasons why we ought to pay taxes and have a government that is healthy, no withered.
shit happens.

Last edited: Friday, September 02, 2005 at 8:33:50 AM

^Blaming the poor!? How am I am blaming the poor?

Read Rabban's post again.

Why has the media mobilization made the government response look laughable? Is it because CNN, MSNBC, FOXsnooze, my local news channel, and everyone BUT the government has been standing in downtown New Orleans, Biloxi, for the last three days?

It's terrible what happened there, but I'm certainly not blaming people for being poor.

All I got was rain...

Though im organizing a fund razer at school and the money will be sent to the red cross...

Oh god... Did you hear what the governer said in the paper

So it comes to shooting our own people?

Last edited: Friday, September 02, 2005 at 12:47:34 PM

@KBC - OK, I laughed at what you posted and then deleted cause I knew where you were coming from and I knew the response you would get. So, kudos to you for having some guts. ;)

Now about the "poor can't leave". Hmm, interesting idea. I wonder how poor they are. I mean, we're saying they're so poor they can't afford gas to evacuate a city, but then why would gas be an issue for someone who doesn't have a car? Its hard to imagine someone living in the US not being able to travel, especially given 3 days warning to avoid a natural disaster. Its difficult for me to visualize this. We have plenty of poor people around here, but they seem mobile enough. Sure they drive some '76 LTD held together with wire and putty, but they have wheels and they could've left this area if needed. So we're saying there's a population in the US, scattered in our cities, who can only travel by foot or bicycle? Wow. Are we also saying they made up 20% of New Orleans population? That's something.

SO, the solution? I think the city and state needed a better plan for evacuation other than saying, "Leave town now".

@PGG - Yes. You're acting like the enforcers are just going out and shooting people for the fun of it. Your quote reads "...will shoot on site of anyone pillageing, raping, or abusing others." Downtown Orleans is a lot like downtown Baghdad soon after the war. People stray from the rule of law very easily, so serious countermeasures have to be put into place. Hmm, wonder how long the Guard will be in there before folks start calling for their rapid withdrawal? Does the governor have an exit strategy? XD

Last edited: Friday, September 02, 2005 at 2:25:52 PM

Interesting. I think most everyone agress the govt did an A+ crap job of handling this. I think what KBC is trying to say, is that since you have been given reliable info. (in this case, not Iraq) that a crapstorm is headed your way, that should be incentive enough for you to find a way to bolt, poor or not.

As the Ho and Rouge have stated - as they are poor, they probably have very limited resources in terms of transportation (and in general). It is likely they would have trouble bumming rides off people, even if traffic appeared to be at a standstill. How likely is it the Johnsons are going to give a ride to someone who looks less than appealing?

But, as KBC has said "where there's a will there's a way." I can buy that. I think many of us are trying to sell black and white, when grey is probably what we got. Are the poor severly disadvantaged in their ability to leave New Orleans? God yes, and that blows. Was there still a chance some could have got out anyway? Probably. Let's just hope more made it out than not.

Let's look at how a nation with a fraction of the USA's wealth handled a similar impending hurricane.

(This was from July, when Hurricane Emily was bearing down on the Mexican coast: )

"CANCUN, Mexico - A massive evacuation of tourists in one of the world's largest resorts began Sunday, with hundreds of buses dispatched to move tens of thousands of vacationers away from Hurricane Emily, heading for a direct hit on Mexico's coast.

The size of the task was daunting: About 500 buses were ordered to move 30,000 tourists in Cancun -- part of a total of 70,000-80,000 mostly foreign visitors to be evacuated statewide to temporary shelters in ballrooms and convention centers. "

Sniper

Where were these people going to go once they left New Orleans? What the hell were they going to do when they left? Stay in a hotel? Oh I know, they could have left and gone to a shelter. Which one? Where were they? I must have missed that announcement telling those with no place to go where to go.

Most of the city did leave for crying out loud. Look at the damn footage of this nightmare. Who is left? Give me a damn break.

Leave the city. Where there's a will there's a way. Horse crap. Leave and do what?

What some of you don't get is that it's just not about the transportation. Who the hell would have taken care of your poor ass if you left the city with no cash in your pocket?

They were given no options except leave.

Great job Republlcans.

.

I have to say that this disaster has been predicted for 40 or so years. The Army Corps of Engineers was trying to improve the levy system, but the funds got cut after 9/11.

Having said that, this isn't about politics. The government screwed up royal. They didn't protect the safety of the people in the face of a known threat. There was another agenda in action at the time.

This is about people. Some made bad decisions to stay. Some had little in the way of options. This storm was nearly incomprehensible, and you and I know that many of us get a little too "John Wayne" at times. (I'm gonna ride this one out... I'm not letting some storm tell me what to do...)

Not everyone has the nerve it takes to "borrow" a school bus, drive to New Orleans, and load up anyone they can and take them elsewhere. Fear makes people do strange things. That storm scared the crap outta me, and I'm not near it.

That doesn't change that each and every human being has needs. We can all help meet those needs. We can complain about the government, (and there's plenty to complain about) but that won't help the lady who died in her wheelchair outside the superdome.

Do something about those immediate needs. We can lynch the government later.

That's why I don't post much - if any detail is incidentally left out of a comment, bashing ensues. We're all on the same damn team...christ. I think the ability to cover all bases in a disaster is damn near impossible. Government blows goats here - agreed.

The point was simply - if you have two options - near certain death or absolute crap living conditions - or bolt and try to make the best of it - bolting is pretty much your only options, even if the ability to bolt is limited. No one said the planning wasn't ass (as it was). No one isn't blaming the govt - they fubared - I personally am ready for a regime change.

Leave and do what? Leave and live...then make the best of a horrible situation. Leaving was the only option...there just weren't enough places to go after departure.

I get it.

^ not trying to bash, but I feel strongly that most felt helpless and figured they were better off where they were. No light at the end of the evacuation tunnel. "Where there's a will there's a way," doesn't cut it. In fact that's ridiculous and simplifies the reality of the situation and the people involved.

Thanks Republicans???

Mayor Ray Nagin

Governor Kathleen Babineaux Blanco

So as it stands...Nagin (D) and Blanco (D).
But I think the real point is that both had little experience.

^ This is bigger than a state. This is a Federal catastrophe and this is a matter for Homeland Security and it failed miserably.

Again, why wasn't everyone mobilized prior to the hurricane making landfall?

I finally realized they should have mobilized the school bus fleet in order to move people who had no transportation.

Last edited: Friday, September 02, 2005 at 6:09:23 PM

Rabban knows that. He prefers desperation to logic.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9148526/site/newsweek/page/2/

Read the *whole* article.
The latent point is *very* interesting, and it is discussed further here.
http://coldfury.com/reason/?p=933
The oppressed governing majority rides again. If you think that point about the drumbeat of fear and this lack of preparedness is going to die down anytime soon, heads up.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/02/national/nationalspecial/02cnd-storm.html?ex=1283313600&en=a144858313da66be&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
New Orleans Mayor, in Tears, Blasts Washington's Response
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/02/national/nationalspecial/02response.html?ex=1283313600&en=86f37e1b85f29e7e&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
Government Saw Flood Risk but Not Levee Failure
Our current administration, lacking foresight? Shirley, you're pulling my leg.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/02/opinion/02krugman.html?incamp=article_popular_1
Before 9/11 the Federal Emergency Management Agency listed the three most likely catastrophic disasters facing America: a terrorist attack on New York, a major earthquake in San Francisco and a hurricane strike on New Orleans. "The New Orleans hurricane scenario," The Houston Chronicle wrote in December 2001, "may be the deadliest of all." It described a potential catastrophe very much like the one now happening.
So why were New Orleans and the nation so unprepared? After 9/11, hard questions were deferred in the name of national unity, then buried under a thick coat of whitewash. This time, we need accountability.
Reference your opinions to the place they bubbled up from, that is all we ask.
BTW, donate. http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/paypage/PELYGQVJ8Q7IB/002-0831958-7860810
---------
If you can stomach the horrendous, liberally biased blog name, you'll see interesting footage of things that happened on t.v. The past few days.
http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Paula-Zahn-Fema.wmv
http://movies.crooksandliars.com/npr_chertoff_050901a.mp3
http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Nightline-Fema.mov
and the most necessary >
http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Anderson-Cooper-Landrieu-Katrina.mov
and the least necessary >
http://movies.crooksandliars.com/dianepres.wmv
wherein bush lies about not expecting something everyone expected.
Olberman and Sharpton. Listen to what Sharpton says, comparing Bush's response to this with his response to Schiavo. He gets race issues better than any of us, so why the hell not listen. If as he says, half the kids in NO are poor, where ya gonna go?
http://thepoliticalteen.com/video/olbersharp.wmv
----------
embarrassing

Last edited: Friday, September 02, 2005 at 6:53:42 PM

No shortage of interesting reading material.

National Geographic Oct. 2004

@Tally Ho - No I don't...weiner. B)

I was not going to post but after everything I have read I felt I needed to
I have been through many hurricanes the last ones were Charlie, Francis, Ivan,
I live in central Florida my home was damaged we went without water or electric for 5 days in 90 degree heat and we are still trying to recover from those storms....But we were told to get out and we did leave...
The only ones I feel sorry for are the children and folks that were in wheel chairs or in hospitals and nursing homes.. The rest were told to get out... The city Govermant are the ones that screwed this up not the Federal Govermant or Bush...The Govenor of that state had no clue what to do she could have bused those that had no way out she had 5 days to get those people out she could have pulled all the school buses public transportation from around the state to get those out that could not leave...
And the ones that didn't bother to head the warnings TOO BAD!!!! Now you are blaming Fema! And Bush!!! How Dare YOU!!! As far as I am concerned if you had two legs and two feet and were told to get out ya should have started walking in 5 days you could have been in a safer place The people knew that if they were to take a direct hit from a cat 4 or 5 hurricane that there city would be destroyed they've known it for years but no one heads these warnings They think" Well someone will come and take care of me" "We won't get a storm here".."Weather reports are wrong"
And what really amazes me now that they are stuck there going to start raping, killing
each other? They are trying to shoot at the ones that are trying to help? Well hell lets just start fires around the city that will get us help faster..Crap lets go ahead and steal stereos, tvs, guns, knives, jewlery..we can survive on those things...Bunch of Idiots.....Bottem line if you know trouble is heading your way TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF AND THE ONES YOU LOVE DON'T WAIT FOR SOMEONE ELSE TO DO IT FOR YOU!!!! Too many ask for handouts Too many want others to solve thier problems..All those people knew this could happen but yet they did nothing as always it takes a disaster to try to rectify the problem at hand....
Stop and think about this for a sec...with all the devastating Hurricanes that Florida has had did ya here about people killing each other? Or the ones that were trying to help get shot at?did ya hear anything about stealing guns? Jewlery?T.v.s? Raping woman and children? Did we blame the Goverment for the problems we were facing? UMMMM NO!! I was born here in Florida and I will die here if a hurricane comes and I choose to stay than that is my decsion it's not going to be anyones fault other than my own if I'm stuck without food or water or a place to live...
The only ones I feel sorry for are the children they have Fools for parents....

@ Sheena

Great post.