Yeeeeeeeep, that's right. It ain't over 'til the fat lady has sung...and waffles are served for all.

First up - Social Security.

I bring you the following from an email I rec'd earlier today. Slightly partisan, but I though "What the hey...what's not lately?"

SO:

I haven't had a chance to fact check yet - I'm sure someone will. I deleted the "pass this on" part of the email.

Well? Agree? Disagree?

Flea: check!
Chief:" It's funny you should mention a party split....I would love to see a centrist third party come into play and take hold" check!

Or a fourth, or fifth party.
in the mean time, I'd settle for a return to some vestige of democracy...

Nicely said, 56.

Freakonomics was written by a couple of economists/statisticians. About abortion and the crime rate, they note that the crime rate started to go down about the same time that abortion started up with Roe vs. Wade.

For those skeptical, they further note that the crime rate started going down at the same rate in states that OK'd abortion prior to Roe vs Wade.

Their odd conclusion was that "low-impulse" single women -- white, black, Hispanic, or green -- are getting most of the abortions in this country. Their offspring are terminated by abortion instead of growing up as similar low-impulse problems who commit crime.

Like that? Bennett thought it was not so bright either. See his quote.

Last edited: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 at 11:44:32 AM

Ah, Chief.

We have yet to talk about Compassionate Conservativism.

Or, how to spend money wrecklessly and swamp the boat again with big government. Shall we?

First, however, let's talk about Harriet Miers birthday cards to GW. What scandal! To tell someone that they are "the best govenor of Texas ever" and I hope your daughters know that you are "kewl"!

Totally rad.

BTW, how do you choose your car mechanic? Your cousin's best friend, Billy Bob?

Personally, I choose mechanics who despise the concept of evolution, deny that global warming exists, espouse a doctrine of pre-emptive war, advocate pro-corporate policy, shift tax burden to the middle class, and don't really care about whether they fix my car or not because jesus is coming down soon to punish all the non-believers and reward his flock with eternal back rubs and soft music in the great hereafter.

Don't you?

All the qualities of great mechanics. Is that your point about judges, too?

BTW: conservatives...where was your Miers-like indignation when bush was appointing other unqualifed cronies to positions of influence? Something smells rotten here. And here it is: your objections aren't related to how qualified she is, but rather...how seeming moderate she appears.

Otherwise, you would have gotten your panties in a twist about Fema and brown, or countless other appointments.

Last edited: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 at 12:24:06 PM

Brown was great in practice - he just sucked in the game.

So, you're defending the practice of cronyism?

And who would've thunk that the president of the arabian horse association would have "sucked in the game"?
great in practice? In horse practice? Or emergency management practice?

Hammer hits nail. But, I'm just happy to see them angry, at last.

JJ, and the rest of his conservative, fundamentalist friends, have been propping up this failed presidency for post after post after post...and just got sold out by Bush...AGAIN.

They're mad because they were sold on this being their nomination. They were sold on a promise of an openly Scalia- or Thomas-like justice. They were sold on the concept of a celebratory debate on the proper method of interpreting the constitution. They were sold on visions of setting off fireworks and dancing in the streets with middle-finger raised at us liberals...thumbing their noses at us diversity mongers.

Ain't that right, guys? You're mad because you didn't get what you were sold.

Recall, however, that you were also sold on WMDs. You were sold on a return of integrity in the White House. You were sold on promises of a smaller government. You were sold on increased security for our homeland.

Now Bush is selling you on Miers as a legal conservative, with no real independent proof, and asking you to buy on trust.

And finally....finally....you're a little hesitant to go along.

In sales, we call you a "sucker".

How long until the other bait and switches make you angry?

Last edited: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 at 3:08:14 PM

"Horse practice?"

ROFL

:)
as the fo says, it do beg a question or two. It really do. Now if you excuse me, I gotta get back to work practice.

Recent natural disasters point to return of Jesus Christ: US evangelist Robertson

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20051009/en_afp/quakesasiausreligion_051009185041;_ylt=AmSzRGybqtzJ35edkPyXjIys0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MjBwMWtkBHNlYwM3MTg-

As I was reading this tidbit, I was reminded of giambattista vico...

Wikipedia

I can't figure out if the religious right is stuck in stage one, or stage two. In any event, its apparent that vico had their number way back some 250 years ago. And he was a christian.

Now people who don't understand the concepts behind plate techtonics -- or worse, not just misunderstand, but badly misinterpret events in the natural world -- want to control the highest court in the nation. If there is one place where reason should reign supreme, it seems to me to be the court house. No room for neolithic misinterpretations by cultural knuckle-walkers like robertson and his ilk.

What century is this again? Tell me you don't think its raining because god is crying...how can a christian italian three centuries past be so much wiser than a considerable percentage of contemporary americans?

Interesting. Reflecting on these discussions, or in anticipating responses from you conservatives, I'm always struck by two things: just how much you use reason to construct or preserve unreasonable positions; and how different we truly are.

And here's what I wish: that the south would have won its GD war so I wouldn't be held hostage to what are essentially southern ideas.

Because most of the wingers are from the south. As a civilization, the south as a whole is very distinctly different from the rest of the civilized world, whereas the coasts' ideas of governance and society don't seem that disparate from the rest of western civilization.

While the majority of the civilized world appears to look to worldy solutions to its problems, you conservatives just keep going back to your ancient beliefs, just as a devout muslim would. When trying to understand the 21st century, you defer judgement to primitve minds of a group of peasants 3000 years past dead. These folks werent bad people, but they had a primitive understanding of their natural surroundings. Heaps of knowledge have been accumulated since their passing. Whole sciences have been developed. Yet, you guys keep defering to them.

So, I wish you guys had won, so you could have your own theocracy all to yourselves. And we all could keep moving along in the realm of the modern, trying to figure out solutions based on the accumulation of experience in the real world.

And you would all just be curious throw-backs. Not the anti-modernist threats that you are to democracy.

^ This would be the practice I am referring to.

The game...aka "the big game"...would be the events of Katrina.

Sorry - I probably should have written my comment a little more 'splainingly.

Actually, you are quite mistaken. Us neocon right wing nuts only believe in that when it's raining on a Red State. We like to think he's taking a whiz on the Blue ones.

Also - nice theory on southern politics...if you can somehow figure out how to get Rand McNally to fit the Rust Belt and the plains states south of the Mason Dixon...it might actually make Michael Moore's next movie.

:)

LOL! Michael moore. He's fat.

Thomas franks already figured out how the midwest fits into my southern states dealy.

Michael moore! He's ugly.

Hey hey hey, let the boy ask some questions and u guys answer....
im only 22 and why da hell am I paying for other peoples SS benefits????
just cuz bush admin. Screwed up???
instead of spending all that money on war why not invest into our own country???
How can I get away from paying for others ss benefits? Cuz I sure am not gonna receive them....
are all the republicans gonna give me my ss benefits when I grow old??
remember all of u republicans, if kerry would have won he could have saved MYYY SS benefits....somehow.. So please
answer my questions and only than reply to this post. Do not try to come up with ur own ideas to getback at me....thx

"on the 9th day, god made republicans to screw us"
by guju

Gujuboy aka apollo13... Plz answer them

@ Stink

Thought you'd like that

@ Guju

Good seeing you. I can answer all of your questions in one word: 47%.

Why is this such a poplular thread?

Dunno Joe - we're just in here "thanking Democrats".

Interesting things from Olbermann.
http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Countdown-Nexus-Terror.wmv

Hey guju it's really easy to proselytize and wink an eye at the same time.

For instance, I got elected partly because I promised you a big fat income tax reduction. Kewl eh. (I'm winking to my buddies now.)

Oh, you still feeling the pain? I'm sorry (wink, wink). See, I gave those big fat income tax reductions. What's wrong with you? You a lazy bum?

You ain't working hard enough is all (wink, wink, these fools will never under stand that most of their taxes are paid for through "payroll" taxes and not "income" tax).

Now get to work! (wink, Let's see, how's my portfolio doing now? Oops! I mean my blind-trust...)

Jesus is just around the corner..."so be good, for goodness sake! Whoa! Somebody's comin'!" ;)

Rabbit: is that irony? Did you not ready my rant above? Or is this ironic?
but thanks for helping me make my points.

1. Misinterpretation of natural events. The problem of conflating natural events with the intentions of gods is it doesn't lead to positive change. Bird flu can be contained or reduced by changing farming practices. In some cases, science can come through to provide vacines to protect us. But interpreting avian flu as a sign of the rapture is very stage two on the vico scale. Maybe even stage one. Its a very neolithic practice, more befitting our loin-clothed, slope-headed forefathers.

2. The virus(es) of the avian flu are in-your-face evidence of...get this...evolution. Constant mutation is making them more and more deadly. And: scientists have learned more and more about the behaviors of these viruses because they haven't surrendered their study of the natural world to the realm of the unknown mysteries of god..., or stated more clearly, aren't proponents of "intelligent design" but of "scientific method."

And: if this nation continues to "get its god on" like you on the religious reich want us to, well, then we might as well all believe that earthquakes, global warming et al are all signs of an unhappy god coming down to kill all our babies, for all the good we will be able to do about it. Devest yourselves of reason at your own expense.

Yes, stink, that post of mine was just for you so you could continue your rant. Besides, if you wanna blame someone, blame Budda. He's the main kingpin over where H5N1 is getting its game on (surely you know that) and I think the loin-cloth is still pretty popular in those regions as well.

Well thanks for being my straight man.

Continuation of rant (with segue): in buddaland, they don't blame the budda for anything. Not that I'm an expert, but I do believe acceptance of fate is a big part of buddism. While they may misinterrpret events, I doubt they'd be inclined to blame a deity for disasters. I also doubt they have pat robertson type figures in safron robes interpreting catastrophes as signs of an angry budda or calling for the execution of heads of rival states or attacking queers or science.

Not a lot of agression out of the buddists generally. A bit more christian in the 'christ' sense than our christians, doncha think? I've lived in japan, where buddism is practiced (along side shintoism). Don't recall a lot of righteous indignation from buddists, or discussion about whether or not science and buddism were at odds, or whether or not judges where buddist enough, or whether or not global warming was caused by budda and not human activity.

Just not enough resentment built into buddism to give it that american flavor I guess. Hard to get all morally righteous and pissed off if you're a buddist.

Let's see...

1) - Even if I interpret the Avian Flu as a sign that the end is near, it doesn't mean I'm opposed to "positive change". Of course I want to see steps taken to respond to the threat, much less discover a cure and see as many people "saved" as possible.

2) - So, Avian gets better at what it does, its still a flu virus. When the Avian Flu mutates into a amoeba, call me. Until then I think you're talking about micro-evolution, those little adaptive changes that we all enjoy and no creationist I've read opposes.

You know, sometimes I wonder about your spin and the Christian spin as well. If you remember, Jesus talked about bad things happening near the end, but I don't remember him assigning an interpretation to them other than "the end is near". I started a thread on this concept awhile back, but no one understood where I was coming from. Remember in Revelation the moon being described as turning to blood? Perhaps that's just how it looked to John, but presently we see it as the result of pollution in the atmosphere. Does that make the vision less acurate just because we understand the mechanism behind the apparent change in the look of the moon? I don't think so.

As far as Buddism goes, he was striving for enlightenment himself (as I understand it) and that path could take many forms. If you don't make it, you get another chance. So I can see why they would be a lot more relaxed about the whole situation and have a more "live and let live" attitude. Maybe that's why we don't see billions in aid from those guys going to earthquake victims since their attitude is, that's their fate?

I don't think charity is a measure of kindness. In my experience, money is the easiest thing to give.
In other news, http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Today-Russert-Bad-poll-Bush-10-13.mov
Very bad news, Elephant fans.
*
stink, I need your email.

Last edited: Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 2:15:20 PM

@rabbit:

Aye perhpas.

And great response, and well reasoned. However, int it I see...once again...reason employed to bouy up unreason.

1). End times vs the possiblity of positive change. Irreconcilable concepts if you ask me.
2). Macro evolution rejected for 3000 year old fairy tales because...and this is the kicker...because the science of macro evolution isn't demostrable to the degree you need it to be.

Which of course begs the question: if you've rejected macro-evolution on the basis of rigorous scientific scrutiny, or even of logical scrutiny...how is it that that same scrutiny has spared some of the seemingly fantastic, miraculous happenings of the bible?

How do you explain this blatant incongruity, oh mr rabbit?

And rabbit, I'm not well versed biblically speaking to hang with you there. However, it seems to me 1) jesus speaks figuratively a lot of the time, and its possible "the end" is a figurative concept; 2) other people's "contribution" to the bible don't always seem to jibe with jesus'. Again, I'm not authority.

But read this way...it seems a lot less...contradictory lets say.

@ T ho: kjearly@ yahoo.com. Oh guddy, a message from the ho!

Last edited: Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 3:25:50 PM

T ho: why do americans hate america so much? Something like 60% of americans dissaprove of bush. Which means, they really hate america, right?

The Bush Admin is now learning what most of us learned in 2nd grade. Calling people names, you know, it's stupid. Also, two percent of blacks continue to support Team Elephant. That's the uniter you elected, baby.
Worst. Asshats. Ever.
*
What was I going to add...

Last edited: Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 2:39:49 PM

I'm not sure if 60% of americans hate america...but they clearly don't support our troops!

BTW, can we officially say 'welcome back, stink'? Or is this an extended, flirtatious tease that will inevitably lead to disappointment (similar to my wife taking a long bubble bath before coming to bed).

Last edited: Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 3:27:00 PM

Yes, nor do they support the war on terror! Does that mean 60% of americans support ossama bin laden? If so, its a good thing ossama didn't run for president! Why oh why do they hate us? And why do we hate us? Oh why oh why???

Howssat 44? Perrrrrrrhapples...

Last edited: Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 3:38:20 PM

Reminds me of when you're standing next to your friend, who's doing something he shouldn't be doing, and you point to him with a look on your face and raised shoulders that say, "I don't know this guy."
http://thisdividedstate.blogspot.com/2005/10/staged-conversation.html
http://movies.crooksandliars.com/The%20Situation-Room-staged-Iraq-troops-photo-op.mov
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4957379
Nice job, asshats.
At least 1984 was well-written.

Last edited: Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 8:37:12 PM

Hey, Tally. The CrooksAndLiars links you always post send you directly to their.homepage, regardless of the destination. Their servers don't accept referrers. Not that it matters or anything, but hey.

Might it be time to shift this discussion back over to the "Thanks Republicans" thread? From my perspective, there's a lot to be thankful for recently.

Should 'self destruct' have a hyphen?

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/10/14.html#a5366
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/10/13.html#a5361
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/10/13.html#a5359
try dat one, not dat you will. Not dat you brain jar ain't hermetically sealed. Not dat you didn't use up all the super-glue and rusted bolts, staples and bubble gum locking in your prejudices.

Hey fellas - hope you're enjoying the show up in DC. Ali ain't the only one that knows "the rope-a-dope."

At least that's my opinion. Miers will withdraw her name at some point in the near future....and then someone y'all are gonna absolutely adore will get the nod.

And, alas...the Dems will be boxed in - on public record this time.

Errrrrr, nice theory, columbo.
who do you suggest this adored person will be ?

Who ended Gujuboy's ss benefits?
Republicans..
why?
spent too much on a useless war
how?
convincing dumb republicans that there are nukes in iraq.
.........
I want to know this from a TRUE Republican...
how did u feel when u found out NO nukes were found in iraq? And what was ur first reaction? Also were u happy that ur money supported this mistake? Please only a true republican should answer this..

Thats not me then.

Chief: I suppose its human nature that when we see one of our personal heroes getting the shit beat out of him that we begin to hope the ass kicking is actually a trap being set. 9 times out of 10 it turns out to just be a straight up ass kicking.

My two bits: miers nomination withdrawn. Team bush gets the old play book back, nominates a well qualified, hightly conservative judge, and relishes the opportunity to finally have a discussion about whether or not america is ready to rejoin the dark ages. Unfortunately, the QB, rove, won't be able to call the shots from his jail cell.

Question is, can the democrats capitalize on the opportunity to reconnect america to the 21st century, or do they continue to serve corporate masters and limp along they way they have for 30 years?

Guju: theres a lot more to pissed off about other than your SS dollars. Which by the way, you haven't contributed to much yet anyhow. Go to truthout.com and read about why you should really hate republicans. There's lots of reasons. Environmnetal, labor, women/minority rights, science, education, integrity, equality, justice, culture of corruption...yada yada yada.

Bottom line: republicanism should only be espoused by the rich, those that really want to be rich, and conservative christians. No one else is served by these corporate whores as our current political/social/economic situations ILLUSTRATES BEYOND DOUBT!

Thx stink, since I'll be fresh out of college I want to know if this is legal. The idea is to set up a website which will serve as a bridge to outside medicine, for cheap. Anyone will be able to come online and send in their prescription and a qualified doctor will order either same or better medicine from canada or any other country for a real cheap price. I dont know if anyone has done this before but I think through this we can save people ALOT of money. Again this is through online. Anyone?

Thx
guju

Ya people are payin to much keep it cheep plz B)

@ da Ho

My money's on Gonzalez.

@ guju

Oh, if life were as simple as you see it....

This isn't a flame...just a nod to your youth.

Alas, I can't answer your question as I'm not a true Republican.

@ Stinky

I'm starting to see your point regarding the religious right, though I'm coming at it from another direction (agnostic vs. Catholic). Whodathunkit.

By the way, the Plame Blame Game seems to be heating up. Did anyone catch that "Fitzgerald knows who the primary source of the leak is....and it ain't in the White House?" I read it earlier on Google news....

Chief: link? I can't find it. Is that wishful thinking? C'mon, you know those weasles aren't above this business.

And whatchamean about catholic vs agnostic? I donna follow.

And rabbit: how come when I posed you this humdinger:

"Which of course begs the question: if you've rejected macro-evolution on the basis of rigorous scientific scrutiny, or even of logical scrutiny...how is it that that same scrutiny has spared some of the seemingly fantastic, miraculous happenings of the bible?

How do you explain this blatant incongruity, oh mr rabbit?"

You run oft?

Last edited: Monday, October 17, 2005 at 8:58:58 AM

Gonzalez might have a hard time with that whole torture thing. Await an answers to the paradox above I do.

@ Stink

I'm referring to this whole Miers thing....an obvious nod to the religious right. And, I also agree that any of the politico power boys are capable of smearing someone from the other side of the aisle as political payback. I just don't think that's what took place here....and not just because these guys are who they are. I just don't think anyone at that level of the game is that "stoopid". I'd be saying the same thing about Carville or another Dem operative.

I'm Catholic and I just assumed from some of your prior posts that you were agnostic. If I'm offbase I apologize in advance.

@ da Ho

I'm saying this due to hie being Hispanic and a former TX judge (why am I thinking he was on the state supreme court?).

Check.
I don't think they're that stupid either. But overconfident? Yes, I think rove figured that since they've been getting away with all the other "pranks" that they would be able to pull that one off as well. Remember that when this was first being investigated, ashcroft was in charge. Rove and ashcroft were pals so I'm sure rove felt that his back was covered when he lied to the fbi. Suddenly, its fitzpatrick's investigation, and rove can't explain his ashcroft era fibs? Voila, fourth sit down under oath. He had some splaining to do.

Why is it that you catholics, once the primary source of fire and brimstone, are more likely to be the moderate, rationale religious folks these days? Isn't that telling? I mean, the world over, catholicism is considered a very conserative religion, but everything is relative I guess. Next to these bull goose looney evangelicals, you guys look positively humanist. More power to you.

The miers thing is a freaking carnival. Full of code to conservatives, which at first was too covert for them, now that code has been translated into a nod from dobson, which has got democrats and rational republicans freaking out. Maddening the supreme court issue has to be dumbed down to this level.

Agree with t ho on gonzales and the torture thing. Thanks to john mccain for making a principled stand against torture...something I can't believe took this long. Torture is unamerican.

Chief, BlueState is not a checkbox world, man. Is it in RedState?
Hispanic + Judge = Qualified ?

Nah. The torture issue aside for a second - Gonzalez is the next logical choice (from Bush's standpoint)...the standpoint being someone from the innercircle. Minority, judicial track record (TX supreme court?), longtime FOW (friend of W)....

It's not really a checkbox kinda thing on my guessing - to me it's the same as figuring out who's coming off the bench next in sports. But, then again, the Reps never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

If not Gonzales then who?