Hiya Rabby,
I agree with your statement, but I also believe it is all about our "Need" to feel comforted, to feel secure, to feel like there is a greater purpose for our lives. What a lovely thought that I would see my sister and mother in heaven. I would gladly trade a year or two of my life just to hold my mom and sis for even a moment. But as strongly as I miss them, I will never be lulled into thinking that I would see them again in something called heaven. My mom and my sister are dead. They are gone. They might exists as some form of energy in the universe, but it certainly has nothing to do with god, heaven or hell. Just science.

I agree there is a superior being, but I don't agree at all in mankind's biblical manifestation of a "God". Let alone a God who examines our every intention... And especially not a god that would allow us to go to heaven after committing a murder just because we rubbed some beads and said "Hail Mary" a couple of times. More than just laughable... Bad science fiction.

I have never portrayed God as evil or good. I have mocked some of the statements in these threads regarding peoples beliefs about God, but I have never really formed a thought one way or the other about Gods intentions. Why would I care about the intentions of something I don't believe exists?

I laughed out loud about your thought regarding the red noses. That would be hysterical. What if the guys who wrote bible had made some bold proclamation that everyone had to adorn their faces with a red ball to show their love of god? I can't tell you how much I wish that was true.... The thought just makes me giddy.

Rabby, suddenly I am filled with a new rash of questions..... What is the reason that only a small handful of people have had God appear before them in the past few thousand years? Couldn't be that they were the only ones who were worthy. Why hasn't God ever just done something incredible that is witnessed by thousands or millions of people? Why does God most often appear to only one person who then has to spread the word? Why doesn't God just appear to the world and tell us to get our shit together? More importantly, why hasn't God done anything of Biblical proportions in the past thousand years? Is the Bible complete or is it a living document? Argghhhh... Never mind answering... I already know what you will say.

Why doesn't God have more than one son? In case God hasn't heard, martyrdom went out of vogue a long time ago.

Okay, I am rambling in circles now..... Sorry.

I look forward to the day that we can talk about something that is more "fun". How bout that American Idol? Lost? President Booosh? The Yankees? Global Warming?

A little something to ponder- my point of view, and I'll just leave it at this. I'm not going to debate it.

If God created us and made us able to choose wether or not to follow Him, who is responsible for the decision? He allows us to have it our way. We can accept his work and follow his ways. We can reject his work and ignore him. (/I God)

There was some mention of torture and pain and death earlier in the thread. Perhaps a nod to the "lake of fire" in Revelation 20?

Perhaps that lake is imagery that describes something we don't understand. I think it describes the natural state of humans when God is separated from them. This will be what we experience when God leaves us alone. We don't live in a place like that. Yet.

God honors the moral free will of man by giving us the choice of being with Him or not. Not by force, not by anything other than faith. You have the right to accept or reject. You make the decision. The consequences of the decision lie with the one who chooses.

Let me paraphrase...
I think the story was.....

"Adam, Eve, don't eat this fruit. It's bad for you."
"CHOMP!!! Oh... Whoops.... Wasn't Me!...wait a minute... AKK! I'm Naked!"
"Too bad. Your lives are limited now and because of you, this world is now flawed and bad crap is gunna happen."

Huh. Really. Amazing.
I can imagine God holding back his hands at a conversation like this and saying "Hey man, I wont say 'I told you so'..."

Edit: Just pointing this out... I feel you can't pick and choose things like this. God and the Bible are sort of a package deal, so to blame God for something already pointed out in the bible seems a little out of place.
When 7 plagues or something happens to someone... Then blame God...
When the Hurricanes come are you going to ask "Why is God punishing the America's?"

I agree somewhat. I dont believe in most of the crap christianity force feeds you either.

Last edited: Thursday, June 01, 2006 at 1:15:54 PM

Rabby...
I live in CT, but I go to NYC for meetings pretty regularly. Are you really coming to NYC on the 17th? Maybe we could get some dinner and chat about everything EXCEPT religion!
8o

You are coming to NYC for a project... What kind of project? (Religious crusade? Lol)

My wife (You have seen pieces and parts of her face) works in NYC... Maybe we can talk her into coming to dinner as well.

Lemme know if you are going to be available for dinner on the 17th (as soon as possible.)

It would be a hoot to meet you in person.

Wow THG is funny. Btw, there are more people dieing for Jesus today than there was after he died.

Yeah, it's scary that people die for an alleged 2000-year-old political firebrand.

Funny how you became christian to christian hater.

Funny how people think I'm a Christian hater when I really hate the irrational, inconsistent beliefs they embrace.

Monica No matter how much I disagree with what you have been saying on this thread I have to tipp my hatt for your dedication to it

Danke sehr, Ti the Boss. This is why I keep going: http://fuzzy.snakeden.org/intj/

Well, on an ending note, the world that some here have wanted is in the works. Jesus is supposed to return to be the king of the world (sorry James Cameron) and he'll set up a theocracy of the likes we've never seen before. And all those "why doesn't God..." questions will be answered cause that's what he's gonna do. The question then becomes, will you rejoice in it or be the target of it?

@TG - What??? And leave my 20lb Bible at home? Okay. I've sent you an email to take care of the details. The project is the same as last year's that took me to Boston. Basically teachers visiting historical sites for first hand experience to relate to their students. I package up the experience in a multimedia presentation.

Last edited: Friday, June 02, 2006 at 7:03:17 AM

No, God is inside of me. God is Love. God is life.

The words of TankGirl.

WOW.... LOL.....
That little gal sure did write some purdy-stuff.

(I have to giggle a bit... You are quoting a fictional character to help authenticate another fictional character) :)

Last edited: Friday, June 02, 2006 at 10:32:56 AM

^ no no no... TG was quite real. Just lied about gender :P
Edit: well, lied about most everything... Bad example for anything really
Edit2: Yeah... TG bad example... But would you say the same if TG was quoted in the name of science?

Last edited: Friday, June 02, 2006 at 11:32:59 AM

Well, Rabbit, if this theocracy does happen, I'm going to hate this Christ person with all my brain for hiding himself to those who rely on facts. I'd be comforted in the fact that I am one of the few who actually dared to use our brains to challenge this irrational belief. I would have no respect for Christ or God. He would need to earn my respect by being rational--INTJ respect is earned, not given.

@WW
TankGirl only told mistruths that supported her gender story. The vast majority of her 1000 posts were honest, open, sincere, and truthful.

@ Monica
Wow... You have taken the plunge eh? If I see some dude performing miracles while flying around with a glowing halo on his head, then a booming voice fills the sky and some other dude proclaims himself to be god... I'm buying the Tee-shirt and joining the club.... No need for god to earn my respect. If God or "Jesus Revisited" shows up with proof that they are who they say they are, I will be the first in line to rub some beads and shout-out to Mary.

@holy
no need to shout out to mary or rub beads... That's catholic crap invented by early priests... No real basis in "christianity"

Edit: Is a mistruth different from a lie? How do we know the rest of the posts are truthful?

Last edited: Friday, June 02, 2006 at 2:22:49 PM

I don't usually do anything with these threads, but I gotta say... "Ouch"... :o That was kinda low there, Monica... :(

You go girl! Give it to him. Honestly, I don't think you have much of a chance, but hey, go for it. At least TG has the common sense to recognise the necessity for a little humility once Jesus returns to set things right.

Wa Wa WAhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :P

@TG - I must admit that I am vexed, sorely vexed by your observation since I too, have wondered about this very question. Now there where times in the OT where thousands saw the results of God's intervention, either through events or people, most notably Moses and that whole exodus thingy. But for the most part it seems as if God does work through one to speak to the many. I also wonder if he spoke to that one in Ten Commandments fashion or simply an internal sort of voice that was distinct from one's own inner voice. Of course, Jesus did his thing in front of plenty of people, but then you have to believe he was the Son of God. And I agree with Monica to a point, that it would be nice for an undeniable revelation of God, like, next week on CNN during prime time (and maybe that's coming), but for the most part it doesn't seem to be his style. And apparently such a display isn't necessary since several people believe anyway that such an event isn't on the horizon. But I can't help but think that if such a thing did happen and it was broadcast on TV, if you weren't an eyewitness, you may still think it was a publicity stunt or a hoax or SFX. Some may think it was aliens or mass hysteria. Honestly, what would you want to see that would really, truely convince you that it was God?

Rabby,
I agree. God showing himself, or Jesus returning would have to really raise the bar to get enough attention. For example (and for fun), Chris Angel (magician) has made himself vanish and appear in public places, made common people float on air, has levitated for extended periods of time, and recently even floated from the top of one building to the top of the next in front of onlookers and half a dozen cameras (Nothing but blue sky above him, nothing but 40 feet of open air and the crowd below him). By many definitions, Chris Angel could be considered to be illustrating miracles. He performs all of his magic in public places, surrounded 360 degrees by onlookers, in the street, in parks, in places where he could not possibly set up trap doors or wires.... If he wasn't billing himself as a "Mindfreak" complete with demonic stylings, he could have had a shot at getting a percentage of the public to believe that he is touched by the hand of god.

But I digress....
God or Jesus will have to really do something incredible to grab the attention of the public. A show of strength for example.... "Hey folks, on this day, at this time, I am going to start a title wave so large that it cfould easily destroy all life on earth, but just before the title wave hits the first land, I will stop it and no-one will be injured.... Come see for yourself."

Really, other than a show of strength, there is no good answer to this one.

I did a quick Google on Angel and learned two things.

1) The dude is freaky and pulls some really cool tricks.
2) We're not the biggest nerds in the forum world. (I found a site where they were arguing about who had built the better flying saucer in their garage.) %)

Thats not nerds that is called being a no friend having lame if I werent so nice my friends would have nothing stopping them from beaten up some lames like that

And as time has gone by I think iv'e leearned somthing from this thread god may just be a symbol of hope for some people to keep living because think about indonesia they have been hit with a tsunami and a earthquake and a mudslide so of them have lost everything and the only reasont hey have to live is because if they indure they will be able to reach the heavens

@Monica - While in church today I had a better car analogy for you.

God created all sorts of cars and gave them all a wonderful freeway to drive upon. No traffic jams and wonderful scenery. Unfortunately, the cars weren't satisfied with this and decided to take all the exits and go their own way. God then sends traffic cops, maps and road signs to get everyone back on the freeway. Those that do get a free trip trough a car wash, to a detail shop and a mechanic for tuneups and replacement parts. Some cars take advantage of this opportunity, others don't believe the road signs are reliable, others think the cops are unnecessary and still others are determined to stay on the back roads. No car is expected to transform into another model by itself, but are given the opportunity to accept the free maintenace and repair work of God. At the final destination, those cars in good shape are taken to the showroom while the clunkers go to the junk yard. XD

Out of all the anologies and explanations anybody has used to convince me to stay on the rightoes path that is the best :)

^^ And I don't blame the junkers. They want to make their own decisions instead of being a monotonous robot of your god.

^LOL. If you don't blame the junkers, then don't blame God either. ;)

11,000 flee Indonesia volcano -- Mount Merapi shooting out lava, hot gases

Ooohhh, they must've really pissed God off today. I bet someone suggested an ammendment to the Indonesian Constitution supporting gay marriage, or sumpin.

Last edited: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 at 8:02:42 AM

An excerpt from a philosophy book I am reading at the minute: