People are entitled to their oppinions, so I don't complain that there are a lot of anti-Americans and anti bushies here. This is a thread dedicated to discussing, in a positive manner, the conservative elemants of the world . In other words, this is for talking about the world by conservatives. This is not an argument thread, so if you are a not a conservative, no need ot post

I think it is interesting how many confusions can be cleared up if people would take the time to look up a single definition, or realize that definitions are changing. Take republicans and democrats. The two parties ar shifting. The fact is, though, they are shifting towards eachother. The more people try to define people and ideas by these terms, the worse things get. Wouldn't it be nice, if people would just stick with conservative and liberal! Consetrvative is people dedicated to preserving, in every way, the 18th century aMerican viewpoints. Liberals being partially OK with this, but also very LIBERAL in changing things up. If we could stick to that, people would probably live longer!

Rhetoric.

Talking about the world by conservatives? Hey any former Taliban here?

"If your not a conservative please don't post"??

My how patriotic.

Az

(listening intently for good ideas)

What I meant, Az, was that I did not need a bunch of peole to come in heer and start cursing out bush...I get enough of that in the shipy posy.

OMG! What an intro! Patriots=those who accept what they are fed by the government? Hitler used the same language...what youre calling a patriot is probably better described as a "nationalist"....

This should be called the mindless minions page, or "patriots for fascism" give me a break....

Anit-americans? That would make sense if george bush was America...but he is not. America is a hell of a lot more than one administration and its policies....same ol stupid rhetoric monkies employed when they attempted to disenfranchise the civil rights movement,and the anti-vietnam movement. Where are you hearing this garbage?

Stinky

And 44...don't strain your ear waiting for the great news....

Last edited: Friday, May 28, 2004 at 11:04:49 PM

If you want to hear comforting thoughts, switch on Fox (faux) News... Rupert Murdoch doesn't like to hear/see/present counter-arguments to his unabashed, unquestioning, support of the president either. If you want to start a status-quo fan club, you may want to seek a different venue...this site is full of intelligent, sensitive, and open-minded people. You're obviously looking for someone else....

Heh Stink that was my next post. Filbert it sounds like you've been spun in the Fox "no spin zone".

Fil, everyone who is anti-war in Iraq is constantly being accused of "not supporting the troops" being "the liberal left wing" or not supporting "the war on terrorism". Everything but patriotic. This comes from right wing politicians and right wing media outlets. I find it quite the opposite I guess.

There's terrible things going on in the world. It's an election year. Expect any public forum regarding politics and world events to be heated.

Also if you're not familiar with the term 'nationalism', google it and you'll understand perhaps what we're saying regarding your linking the word patriot to a thread just for right wing conservative viewpoints.

Az

Last edited: Saturday, May 29, 2004 at 12:36:01 AM

@Az

TAKE IT TO THE BRIDGE!!!!

YEOOOOOOOW!!!!

@Stink

Good posts you, hoser :) Innuendo, sarcasm, flatulence, or joy?

Jangles

@44: Interesting read .

True patriots camp:

Mmmm smores....

*yawn* shouldn't of tried. Geeze you have all the answers on CTRL+C already don't you! I'm done trying!

OMG OMG YOURE SO NOT LSITENINGING OMG OMG OMG.

---

Unintentional Ironic Comment Of the Day

"Geeze you have all the answers on CTRL+C already don't you!"

- Filbert, mocking the kettle.

Ps.

Mattresses :)

Pps b, under the theme of "thread hijacking"

if george bush were a scrummer, who would he be?

Logic and well-reasoned answers appreciated :).

Pppsss 3. Filbert, which of our founding fathers do you reckon would most approve of George Bush 2 and why?

Fil...are you insinuating we are cutting and pasting arguments? Your aren't listening! Follow az's advice....

Jang: a little of each!

I george bush was a scrummer he would be attack. Has moron friends that support him. Will shoot u in the ass all day long but when u turn around to face him he cowers.

B

I dont have a job, but I still think bush is the man. By attacking 1 terrorist group and iraq, he made it clear to all the other countries out there that USA is not something to f around with. Unlike india and pakistan,keep getting ready for war and stoping at the last minute, bitches. Because of bush we are the number one force in the world not even russian can beat us now. Btw I was talking on defense ptv. Only thing he has to do is restrict outsourcing. Either kick the companies out of US and not let them do research here. Without the research, even the cheap material and labor cant save these companies asses and they would have hard time suriving anywhere besides the US. I say that because other countries are not upto our standards and are not capable of consuming like us. For those of u ready to kill me.....i need ur opinions too. Just plz dont curse at me.. If u do... Oh god......dont let me see u in TT servers.....lol j/k

Later

Gujboyyyy :P

(whistling and still listening intently for good ideas)

Geeze, what can I say. What I meant by CRTL+P is that you all seem to have these things sort of imprinted and ready in seconds (_: I would like to point out that on all liberal threads, the point of the conservatives is NORMALLY to try and make friendly conversation, logically, about the idea. When I make a thread, you akl seem so, uhh, offended. Did I flip a switch in you guys or something, lol. AS I like to say, it's sad we can't be friends durring an election year!

One word:

Pastry.

Good going, Racer, could I have some pastry?

Wut kind is it?

Chocolate?

Thanks fil...yeah, you flipped a switch with your patriots vs. Anti-americans dichotomy.

Its a rhetorical device that has been used by the right for years and years....the civil rights movement, and vietnam stand out. Anyone who opposed vietnam was "unamerican". Even though it turned out that the anti-war folks were right. And it turned out that the anti-war folks were right again. Your buddy bush is the least democratic, most secretive, most aligned with big business president we've had in a long time. Maybe its patriotic to question his motives and his methods.

Why does everyone think that someone who likes to call themselves a patriot likes George bush? Right back atcha stinky. The assumptions go both ways. Personally, I don't care for him much, I just like him more than the other options.

Also, you say that you were right in Vietnam, think for a second if all Americans supported the war, would it end differantly? I defiantely think moral plays a BIG role!

Anyway, Amercans are as much as their values, and an American value is to sopport freedom across the world, So, if you are against the war agains Saddm, then you are, in a manner of speaking, anti American. That is if you take america to include the ideals upheld in out constitution.

I hope you can reply to my actual speech, instead of just being angry!

Filbert - define freedom and see if your argument supports your own definition. According to your definition, we all need to get behind whoever is in charge, don't buck the system or at least, support what those in power wish to implement on a people. If you lived in Iraq would your argument be any different?

Well, I'm a bit confused, but not angry...hard to follow the logic. You attempted to limit the discussion in the intro to the thread. You entitled it the patriots page and said we could only talk about the world in a positive, conservative way. So, you attempted to appropriate the word "patriot." for you, then, it means "someone who thinks about the world in a positive, conservative way." I'm telling you that isn't true. I'm not sure patriotism can be defined in a monolithic fashion, but I am positive that the right have been abusing the term to set up this false dichotomy: patriot vs. Dissident

Why do I think you like bush? Because you attempt to squelch any critic of him by attempting to impose limits at the outset...don't try to get semantic with me, please.

Now you attempt to define american values? You state american values are to promote freedom across the world...i believe george w has been hawking that line for four years now. I'll be nice because I assume you are young. You need to think about the things people say...because you may be being manipulated...check out a fantastic post by baba in the iraq is sinking post to see what it is america really values....we have a long, nefarious history of overthrowing elected leaders, squashing rebellions, putting down strikes the world over. Our history STANDS IN THE FACE OF YOUR ASSERTION. The facts don't support the rhetoric.

You also assume that the values of our president are our, "american" values...well, think again. A large percentage of americans feel that he errored in going to war in iraq...perhaps those americans value truth, and justice more than you and president bush do?

It feels good to wave the flag, and feel our strength, and feel righteous in our cause...but feeling is not enough....not in this world.

Ps...bush has no use for the constitution: see how ascroft is attempting to dismantle parts of it...and how bush would like to change it to ensure his vision of marriage is the only vision

I guess, that you consider saddam Hussein as an elected leader, when there were cameras in the election boothes, and he killed most of the people who he ran against?

And I assume you are thinking of everything that you say all by yourself?

[b]I really am enjoying this, and I am glad to find a liberal who is so engaging (-:

Not a liberal! See the iraq post. No, I did not mean saddam h. I was referring to allende in chile who the cia helped depose...he butchered 1000s of his opponents we did the same thing in iran, and brought in the ayatollah khemeni (sp?)...and you know what happened next.

But, saddam, naw...however, we did support him during the iran-iraq war and gave him biological samples and tech. To develop more biological weapons.

No, I'm not thinking up everthing I say...i inform myself. But to begin with, I'm very skeptical...so I question everything, submit it to judgement....sound judgement is based on experience. I have a good education...two B.A.s and a master's degree...and heaps more graduate work on top of that. I've been taught the scientific method, so I value proof...

I've informed myself about the disparity between the image the us wants to convey, and what our actual history is by attending university classes, going to lectures by howard zinn, cornell west, noam chomsky, and by reading z magazine, harpers, and books books books

I acknowledge I make mistakes...its hard to get this right...so many voices out there, so much B.S.!!!

Wait a second!

Whats this I here about pastries?

Lol, baklava.

@stikster: Lets just stop, this is useless, as we both are sure we are correct. I educate myself to, and value primary documents, and original histry. I recomend A basic History of the United states by Clarence B carson. Especially his fifth in the Volume, The Welfare State.

It's easier convincing my dog to read me the sunday paper. Then again, my dog isn't an idiot.

My...my..... This Thread should be a record breaking thread for the most posts in the smallest time!

I don't see the point of having allies if we don't listen to them. Sad how the us versus them rhetoric we see on capitol hill between Democrats and Republicans was adopted by the Bush administration towards our allies and the United Nations on Iraq. The situation speaks for itself. Guess I'm just being conservative here.

Here Fil I'll go on topic...

Happy Memorial Day freedom lovers!

Last edited: Monday, May 31, 2004 at 12:51:54 AM

I thought you were being progressive :).

From Reuters:

Washington - A Pentagon e-mail said Vice President Dick Cheney's office "coordinated" a multibillion-dollar Iraq reconstruction contract awarded to his former employer Halliburton, Time magazine reported on Sunday.

Oops, does this go in another post? I forgot....only positive things

Uh-oh...more dissention in the ranks....is dissent partiotic?

From the washington post: By Major General William A. Whitlow

"It is our patriotic duty to speak out when egregiously flawed policies and strategies needlessly cost American lives. It is time for the president to ask those responsible for the flawed Iraqi policy -- civilian and military -- to resign from public service. Absent such a change in the current administration, many of us will be forced to choose a presidential candidate whose domestic policies we may not like but who understands firsthand the effects of flawed policies and incompetent military strategies and who fully comprehends the price."

The writer is a retired major general in the Marine Corps. He served as director of the expeditionary warfare division in the office of the deputy chief of naval operations.

Patriotic??? I thought patriots ate all the shit that they were fed, right filbert?

:giggle:

Lol, can anyone see that I am done trying?

LOL...done trying what? Given up on being a "patriot?"

Promise us you and/or your family won't vote for Bush and I'll call the attack leftists off.

Last edited: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 at 6:46:48 PM

http://www.grudge-match.com/History/usa-canada.shtml

Nice beaver.

Done trying to convince yout that is...

@44. Darn, I'm to young to vote.

Convince me? You've helped solidify the arguments AGAINST your "cause" by parading unthinking, unblinking ideological rhetoric out, all dressed up as an argument...

What did you say that might have been convincing? Ideology is no substitute for a thought process...face it...you like bush because mom and dad like bush.

Last edited: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 at 8:58:02 PM

Actually I have not put any real effort into you. And I wish you would stop assuming that me or my relations like bush. It is extremely rude. It is like me saying that you like Saddam, just casue you are a liberal .

Um, no, it's not like saying that at all.