Ok all im back on TT, but im not in a good mood. It has been brought to my attention that the quote on quote "good players" are thought to camp/dive/BM etc. I will not mention the persons name, but most of you were there during the fight. I was told that I dive and camp too much, and that most of the good players do, and that we "Bend" the rules. For all that have played me, you have seen my style. I follow and shoot, then once the scrum is at the goal and circling, I sit and w8 for the opportune moment to strike. This is not camping for all of the stupid ppl out there. Yes I do camp every once and a while. Yes sometimes I succeed at it (although not much, I suck at it), but this is what we all do and it is not bending the rules. Also, I had this "person" mad at me because I shot them when they were going to get the scrum. We all do that, dont we? I mean if there is a person in front of you who is goin for the scrum, with nobody else in front of them, we shoot their ass so we can get it first. Now is that wrong? To me, no thats a fair play, good call made by you. And for the diving, most of the time it is an accident, but if im REALLY pissed off I will do it just once. Yes, this is wrong but its just a frickin game, you know wat im sayin?
so to sum this very pissed off forum up, if anyone, and I mean anyone, has a problem with the way I play, or the way my fellow vets play, you can just go to hell and leave TT because I aint changin for nobody, ya hear?

(comments on this from all vets would be much appreciate. For those who are angered by this, read the last sentence.)

-(UF)scotty(AB)©

Yes......How long has it been happening to me though...it should be me who is pissed off.....Scotty a word of advice the ones that are losers and feel the need to bring you down are worse players than you.....it is a fact of life thta there is always dick heads to make shit up because they are jelous...man just dont let them get to you, I just ignore them...

I camo sometimes its fun try it sometime XD

I camo sometimes its fun try it sometime XD

Don't worry Scotty, u'r not the only 1 :)

BTW, Welcome Back!

Cadc (SA) (Leader)

Hey Scotty forget about the whole story: these are the usual words bad losers use. Some of them confuse real world with TT. You proved to be a fair and good player.

We missed u on the fields. Welcome Back!

Io

@Scotty and all of TT

Yes, it was me that was saying these things to Scotty. Scotty, I know you are nice and always say hello to everyone when entering and gg when the game is over. I was not looking to piss you off in any way. But if you are going to come on here and give your version of the story, then it's only fair for me to give mine.

I was winning the game 7 goals to 2 and I did not have the scrum nor was I about to get it. I was driving towards the scrum and you were following me unloading clips into my backside. So, I turned on you, and called you on it, and you said "you have enough goals". I believe it was at this point that I called you a dirty player. During that game you were consistently camping, you dove at least 3 or 4 times, and then you shoot me just because I'm beating you. All that was why I called you a dirty player. I have played many many games with you Scotty and I know that you camp a lot and I told you the same. (I don't think you bm or dive all that much in general) You of course denied camping and then we got into a nice long discussion. That discussion was not geared just toward you, Scotty, but toward a lot of people, so I will repeat it here, and this may not all apply specifically to you:

I am tired of all the camping done by the vets. Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone, but we all know who does such things and who doesn't. For clarity, let me explain what I mean by camping. I don't mean that they literally sit in the goal. I mean that they are not chasing the scrum. They position themselves close to the goal, and try to keep out of the battle for the scrum until the last possible moment, then swoop in , try to take it and score. They will sometimes go out of their way to NOT get the scrum, because they know they will get blown away and they would rather lurk and try to take it away at the goal. Basically, they are playing goalie.

Now, we all know that this goes on all the time and it probably is the one of the best ways to score points. Shocking huh? People will do whatever it takes to win. What I am saying (and I've said it before) is that I don't want to win if I have to do it that way, and all those who do play that way are ruining the fun. This game is so much more fun when everyone is chasing the scrum, not trying to score at any cost. I can play that style of game and do as well as anyone, but it's just not as fun as making those long runs, but it seems long runs are a thing of the past. Now you have 4 people chasing you and then you still have to get past the 4 campers.

I know I'm going a bit overboard on this, but I'm calling out all you vets to raise your game beyond camping. Camping is lazy. Why wait for the scrum to come to you? Go get it! When you camp you're taking the easy way out. There's a reason demos camp...because that's about the only way they can score. So basically if you play this way, you're no better than any of the demos. It takes real skill to actually carry the scrum to the goal.

Scotty, I don't know what got you so pissed, maybe I struck a nerve and you're really insecure about your camping habits, but I have no hard feelings toward you, I just wish people would stop the lurking and get in the game. You say you're not changing for anybody well neither am I. I will still blast away at anybody who camps and ruin my own game because that is how much I dislike that style of play.

Demolition

@ io

No this is not because I'm a bad loser...I ran away with that game...I had 7 and nobody else had more than 3.

Just follow the comany of the server. If nobody is shooting anyone but the scrum bearer then I do the same. If nobody dives for health then I do the same. In general there is usually 1 maybe 2 people who are competing with me for the top spot. I will usually soften them up at any time as they will do to me....
if the server has Bmers, campers, divers, etc I will do anything they do. Including diving with the scrum.
B

OK THIS IS FOR EVERYONE!! Demo and I talked and worked this out (sort of). He doesnt agree with me or you bolo, and he says that he will just stay on his campaign for no camping etc. So we agree to dosagree thats all, but no hard feelings or enemies were made during the conversation. I thank all who posted here, and I hope that we will all learn to love each other no matter wat our diference in opinion may be.
Have a good week yall!
-(UF)scotty(AB)©

OK, I talked with Scotty at length, and he is no longer pissed. He did apologize for what he did in that game, and I appreciated that, and I also appreciated that he took the time to talk it out. So, here is where we left off: He thinks I'm an old fogey that just needs to lighten up sometimes, and I think the whippersnapper might have a point. Scotty just happened to be the person who asked the right question of me and got all of this mess to come pouring out. So, a few hours later, we have no hard feelings, but I still have my problem.

Fundamentally, it comes down to the fact that I have issues with a certain style of play, and I know I will not get a lot of support in that area because many people play that way. I suppose I just expect too much from this game. I have felt this way for quite a while and I have been trying to police things hoping they would get better. They have not.

If it were not for team scrum, I probably would have quit this game a long time ago, but I still enjoy that, and since there is hardly ever any good team scrum going on, I have to keep my skills up somehow, so I will continue my "play the game the right way" crusade in the indie games, most likely going unnoticed by a majority of players.

Demolition

@ GG

I really don't know why I even bother to respond to you, but for the record, I whooped all of you in that game. Scotty has beaten me before and probably will again, but that game was mine with 7 goals. Nobody disputes that. Why don't you take your foul mouth and your camping and your sh** stirring somewhere else.

Demolition

Scotty u ralely ever camp XD

I agree Bolo. I do likewise. I play to the competition.

Demo brought up some good points. However, in his stated opinion experienced players should shy from adding camping into their strategy because chasing is the skillfull way to play and camping is lazy. This is way too broad a statement.

This brings me to.. You asked for it...

TankDork's opinion on CAMPING

I like to chase.. I like hard hits and tough take-aways (mid-air and such) and because of this I seldom find myself camping. If I have been playing awhile and am getting tired or if the competition wants to run all over the field with the scrum instead of advancing it I find myself resorting to a camping strategy.
This is not because I think camping is wrong. It is because I can usually score more chasing.

Anyone familiar with multiplayer games knows what camping is.. For the rest of you, it comes from sitting in one place to better your own chances be it a creature spawn, choke point, base, spawn point or other "watering hole".
As with all game lingo.. This term has followed us into TT. The makers of TT were very much aware of the problems with campers in other games, this much is obvious.. Changing spawn points for all new objects (including players). So to camp in TT by true meaning of the multiplayer camper is nearly impossible.. Except.. When it comes to scrum.
Now we have a single goal which we are trying to get a single object into.. Perfect place to find a "camp", right.

Wrong . TT scrum is more like a sport than combat. The idea in a sporting match is to stop the opponent from scoring and to do so yourself within the rules of the sport. Bravetree has already agreed that goal sitting (camping) is a valid strategy.
Many sports involve players to defend the goal and many feel that waiting by the goal is "ok" in team scrum but not in melee scrum . Anyone who has ever played a "21" free-for-all in basketball with 5-10 people will disagree, if you try to be nice and "chase" the ball and not add waiting at the goal in your strategy.. You will loose.

If camping by its TT definition was successfull then TT would have failed long ago and most of us would have dropped it like we did many other mulitplayer games that were ruined by campers.
But it hasn't failed and pure campers are very few. Not because we have been crusaders against the camp.. But because camping just plain doesn't work 50% of the time.

Being where the scrum is just plain makes sense. The TT camp is a valid strategy. If you leave it out of your arsenal, you are hurting your game. If you over use it, you are hurting your game.
If you aren't good enough to avoid them or you can't shoot.. Then whine, you have that right and we have /ignore.

Long live FoulPlay (DEMO) the best camper I ever knew!

TankDork

Demolition. I will be the first to agree that melee scrum (free-for-all) has problems. The main problem is the 10 tank limit.. Way to many tanks for a free-for-all scrum game... I have hosted servers with 4-6 players and they are alot of fun. You find more driving and ramming and less battlemoding and camping.. Camping doesn't work as well when the runner has less bodies at the goal and more turf to maneuver on.

"would someone write an auto-spawn script.. My spacebar is wearing out"
TankDork

I have to agree with tankdork style of play ! Don't get me wrong about camping though, in teams I have been using a alias some times and have been doing great to the point people beg me to stop camping ! Camping only belongs in Team Scrum, NOT IN INDIE ! In Indie it should be balls to the wall, all out chasing,ramming, and shooting from start to finish ! To me if you can win that way you have really earned it !
@ Scotty
Must of been a bad day for you or some thing cause I have never seen you play that way or maybe its because you and I have respect for one another not to play that way.
Any ways there is my thoughts on this but like Bolo said," I can adapt to what ever style the crowd is playing if needed ! " B)

Last edited: Monday, September 13, 2004 at 8:47:25 PM

Well, I mostly play by my own rules (follow my own instincts) which have so far led me to play the game the way it's suposed to be played

Sure, sometimes I might spawn on the goal as the scrum bearer is coming for the score, and at that point, u'r only option is to camp a few seconds in order to prevent it (about the only time I camp, so that would make it like 5% every other game)

I for 1, chase after the scrum regardless of other player's styles, and 95% of the time, I'm succesful at getting that goal (either being by a long run, or by respawning, and fighting once again to get it back into my possesion)

I BM the heck out of the scrum bearers with extreme acuracy, and that's basically how I gain once again possesion of the scrum ;) (and also weakening those arround me for easyer kills, to prevent a pick up (a widely accepted rule by all Elite Scrummers I believe :) )

This is my basic scrum game play, and thus far, it has never failed me ;)

(sure, sometimes I must make exeptions if I see no other possible way of preventing a goal, but that happens very few times :) )

Cadc (SA) (Leader)

@ lone and and Cadc
thank you for your postings. Lone I know you dont see me play like that because I rarely do. Today was a bad day from the word go lol. X/ 8o but anyway, this subject has been boiling for quite some time, its a good thing it happened around me so I could mediate it :)
@Demo
thanks for your comments man. Im gonna stick by you as far as the "no camping" movement goes, but sometimes I will camp, theres nothin I can do about the way I play and like you, I wont change for sh**. But I agree, it would be more fun with less camping, so on my end of the rope, less camping is on my list ;)
@Cadc
you need to play more man.
@Tankdork
bout time someone explained things around here! XD great way to put it too. I consider scrum to be an avid comp sport and yes in idie, anything goes (this makes things interesting).
@GG (or sperm watever)
for once I agree with something you say lol tx for backin me up dawg.

-(UF)scotty(AB)©

What's that supposed to mean Scotty? (I mean, I'm only alowed to play during weekends )

Cadc (SA) (Leader)

Last edited: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 at 1:57:52 AM

For those of you who scan through my long essay and miss my point.. I am not saying camping is a good thing. I am merely pointing out that the "camping" sore loosers usually blame you for is not the same camping which has ruined multiplayer games in the past. Our TT society views goal waiting to be taboo.. I agree, and sitting in the goal is just plain rude (and even more ineffective).

Cliff jumpers are even lower on the food chain as far as I am concerned.

TankDork

Last edited: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 at 9:27:03 AM

When I first started playing, and first became "good", I also took my stand in the anti-camper rants. Now that I've become an established player around here I've given up on it all. Camping, Diving, and BMing are all just part of the game. If poeple do it excessively, then yeah, they're obviously not well rounded players with a large lack of sportsmanship and can easily start to annoy people. I've notice that even the most respectable players do all three of them in the situations call for it though, and it works.... Because as I said, it's part of the game.

Spawning in the goal as crowds of tanks are following the scrum carrier towards you, ofcourse, your gonna plant yourself there and feed on the luck that landed you there. Also, to me, if you land near a goal and take a minute or so to clear out 3 or 4 campers, if the scrum is on it's way, then yes... You can camp. You didn't clear all those people out just for someone else to stroll on thru. Spawning somewhere and driving directly towards the goal though is very cheap, boring, a waste of time, and NEVER leads to a win (if your playing actual skilled players).

I've NEVER been for diving. For a couple months I would send my smoking tank off a cliff at will, but now I feel much better killing off everyone and scoring 2 or 3 goals, all while on the verge of death. It make you concenrate alot more on where your driving and hitting the proper slides and hills. As of today though, I've decided that I'm going to start diving. I've been watching some of the 'best' players dive with the scrum with no worry about people chanting "DIVER" and even proclaiming that they will and do dive. So yes, I'm going to add that to my gameplay, don't like it, find a way to stop me. I've alwasy said I use all these things judging on the rest of the players, that's one things that's starting to be popular.

BMing... Ya'll know I LAY INTO my mouse button, so I don't need to comment on that. I get alot more positive comments on the shock of dying so fast after getting in front of me then I do negetive, so I've rounded that out and will always do so.

I haven't touched on these in a long time, given up on the repetitive arguement towards the three strategies. It seems to be 'that time' when people are bringing it back up though, so these are my new feelings about them.

Scotty, do whatever the hell you want as long as you don't team kill, team steal, and do either of the three excessively.

Last edited: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 at 11:15:33 AM

@Alien
thank you alien, lol. And I agree with you. We all have taken a stnad in Demo's crusade, but now that we have gotten "good" the camping,BM, and diving have all become a part of the game. When we learn to deal with this, it makes us better players and gives us the reputation that we have. Again, I look at all that as a challenge (except for cliffhanging and diving, thats plain fu*ked up). And as you know alien, since you have played me, I dont camp, BM, or dive any more than you do (which is rare if ever and usually is an accident). So I think that almost all of us are on the same page.

@Cadc
I mean that I miss playin you, and I hope to see you around more often.

-scotty

Ah! I C :) yes Scotty, me as well ;)

Cadc (SA) (Leader)

Longest...thread title...ever.

@evil
no...well...maybe.

-scotty

Let's all just have a drink, shall we?

Cadc (SA) (Leader)

@Scotty cough_camper cough ;)

Seriously though, as LilAlienD (FU) points out, It's more fun to pull off a score while one shot away from death. Diving for health is a skill I have never developed and I prefer to play indie scrum against those who don't either. I can understand that players may do it reflexively as a carryover from TS. As a matter of fact I first noticed the scoring advantage it brings while playing you , Scotty. Ability to score is just one criteria for rating players.

As for camping, I consider one's proximity to the goal a gauge of how much to shoot them. The further the scrum is from the goal the more I shoot players hugging the goal also. The only "safe" time to be near the goal is when the scrum carrier is approaching the goal and therefore getting most of the attention.

BMing away from the scrum and instead of shooting the scrum carrier will cause me to target the "offender" or just leave the game. I don't enjoy travelling the map, I like focusing on the scrum.

So the real question is not whether any particular strategy can be excercised, it's what makes the game fun? A good measure of this is whether players stay in a game or bail. -BC

Last edited: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 at 10:36:45 PM

It's part of the game... Sometime you spawn in the goal while the scrum carrier is coming, what are you going to do? Move out of the way and let him score just because you don't want to be called a camper? LOL, great stratigy!!!

Next time you see me coming with the scrum, just move out of the way! ;) HEHE, But if it's the other way arround, you can bet that I'm gonna camp that goal right out from under ya!!! LOL, and if you call me a camper, I'll proudly say "yup, and a dam good one at that!" If you camp a goal from me, I'll say NC, (nice camping) it's a compliment!!! , just like gj (good job) or n1 (nice one)! It would be rude of you to not say thanks!

If you're a runner and you get a goal camped out from under you, then don't get mad at anyone but yourself!!! You either school or get schooled in this game! If you can out run everyone else but can't get arround a camper, then you don't deserve that goal!

It's just a game, get over it...

@BC
lol I dont camp (usually), and yes it is what makes the game fun. And no it ISNT safe to sit there for too long because of predetars (ie: GG, demos, ppl who hate campers, etc.)
@Stealth
AMEN dude

-scotty

I dont really CARE if someone camps or BMs, and if someone goes after that person, I kill them. If everybody can't play, I not going to play.

Really, just ignore the camper, don't pay attention to that diver over there, play the game. Remember, if you BM a camping demo, they'll think bad things of BraveTree and ThinkTanks. Just make the game fun for everyone.

And Just something for everyone, I do NOT BM people, I give them "Pop shots" as MAX put it.

Bm-ing simply stated is killing someone when there is no advantage in it for you or your team.

It makes no sense to eliminate someone when the scrum is across the map.. They most likely will be closer to it than you when they spawn in and secondly will most likely return the favor later.

"we need an auto-spawn script.. My spacebar is wearing out"
TankDork