Wow that was depressing... :'( :[ I like ptt.... But yeah I have felt it dying for awhile now. :'(

I'll be witness for the Last Will.

@flea
Well never underestimate the opposition to any kind of change. Change scares people. Even when you have been here as long as I have - you see how the push for nostalgia is BIGGER than that of a current, updated, refreshed site controlled by the users who love this game. The history as one says, could be transferred and put on a new site if people wished it, but for now, we are stuck on a derelict ship adrift in the open sea, floating... And people are just fine with it.... After all it is "home."

Last edited: Thursday, January 04, 2007 at 7:05:02 AM

Within all the history here, I really don't see much worth keeping other than a few modding threads.

I would love to see this game get updated as it is one of the better commercial Linux games out there along with Quake 4, Nexuiz, and Mind Rover. But there really is no other game to fit this genre regardless of platform.

Personally, I'll take any update I can get for this game or PTT(2).

Last edited: Thursday, January 04, 2007 at 7:55:40 AM

No, ill make sure I get 15% of that last will, you hear me? XD

So please tell me what are they going to do when they run out of room on PTT2? PTT runs off of 2 dedicated servers PTT2 has to share a server with god knows how many other forums. And when it comes time to invest in a dedicated server to keep up with the demand, what are you going to do seeing one of the biggest reasons you give for leaving is the cost? Have you priced a dedicated server? And lets be truthful about it, you say controlled by the users but in reality it's controlled by the Site Admins, we can say we want this and that but if the Site Admins don't agree it will never happen and who are the Site Admins why look it's you. You guys have a short term solution for the problem at best. Wish I had the answers but I don't, hope things work out for you guys I really do but the server space in going to be used up fast, it already was 1299 articles on it with only a small portion of registered PTT users. The users that want to stay will stay theres really nothing you can say that will change that so let it be and go on your way.

^ There are loads of alternatives and long term solutions, you are failing to find them.

For instance, I have the bandwidth and computer supplies to set up another server of mine for PTT2. I could possibly host it if all other options are out the window... And I am bound to be waaay cheaper than some blood-sucking hosting company...

Although I doubt I would ever HAVE to, this is just one of many options are out there.
The only problem with this solution is convincing my father.... Thats.... It.

And about PTT and TT being run by site admins... Good for them.
These people devote time and effort nearly every day to PTT and it's community.
They are very open minded whether you like to admit so or not.

Would you like control of PTT to be in the hands of the people?
Even less would get done...

And even the posts amongst this thread indicate so.

Lol...I'm sick of hearing it's controlled by the users, they make it sound like we have control when all the control is in their hands they are the ones saying it not me. Before you think about hosting a server that others can use you should look into how much a security certificate will cost you, thats if you can get your sever secure enough to be certified it all takes money. How do I know this, I own and have owned several on line websites and stores. It's not as easy or cheap as you think it is. Warfare you should read my post a little better I don't have a problem with the PTT or PTT2 admins at all, after all we voted for them, but they answer to the Site Admins and it's a Site Admin that keeps saying we the users have controll and thats BS. Like I said you guys should just move to the new site and let us be.

Last edited: Thursday, January 04, 2007 at 1:33:10 PM

I understand what you are saying. In the strictest sense, it is not a user run board where everyone is equal and we all vote. That isn't very practical. However, quite simply there are regular users, quite a few of them, who have been and continue to build the site. They aren't all site admins/moderators or special positions, they just love the game and love the idea of an open source site that can be worked on. Have you even looked at all the different users doing different things? That simply will never happen here because we are frozen in time. That is why the "BS" statements, as you call them, get made...because they are simply true. That level of user access and input is not possible here. I have a better idea... Why dont you not come in the threads about PTT2 and we can have our conversations without you having to drain yourself in a response.... XD

Last edited: Thursday, January 04, 2007 at 12:03:37 PM

If somebody can copy ALL of the info from the sidebar of this site to PTT2, it might work. But I'd like to actually see someone do that before we even think about killing this site.

EDIT: Oh, plus the current games feature.

I also think we should vote for entirely new admins. The current ones are okay, and they could be re-elected, but there are many more poeple out their who deserve admin rights.

Last edited: Thursday, January 04, 2007 at 1:07:29 PM

PTT2 all ready has Moderators
you can not add admins here
that is for GG's and -Z- only

Last edited: Thursday, January 04, 2007 at 1:35:26 PM

What I'm saying is that we should start over from scratch with moderators on PTT2. Not just use the current ones and the host's friends.

I agree with PLAYER36-SA-.. ;)

@ Repent ,, Run out of room? Please.. We barly scratched the surface and have pruning abilities that PTT don't have. Here someone has to do the work of sifting through non replied to posts. PTT2 we have it configure to thin out the old posts. That function can be set to 90 days ,, 6 months, a year,, what ever. Here is what we used from our resources so far. Not a dent.

Speaking of Repent, please check your e-mail rep :)

Is true but who made the site?? The person that made the site should choose the first admins and then if they feel like it they can get more.

Crap, come on PTT2 only has 162 members and has only been open for a week if it had made a dent in the resources already you guys would be in serious trouble now. Lets see what that looks like 6 months from now.

Repent only about 162 people used to go to PTT.

^ A large percent of the "Members" list on PTT are aliases or gone. I know 2 or 3 are mine alone.

Flea... :)

Thats great you guys have a good time, I'm happy for you.

^ lol

@ pdiddy: Yeah, it's her site, she can choose the admins, but if we're going to move completely I think we should all vote on admins.

^ For now all PTT moderators are PTT2 moderators, or will be once regestered. The admin will remain as is. Plan on staying here but know there will be a place to go once this goes down again. Two times in three months is not comforting.

^ It's also not comforting to see people trying to replace PTT, and not even taking PTT along with them. This thread, and the topic behind it, is virtually at a standoff because:
1. PTT2 doesn't have all of PTT's data
2. Moderators are picked by the creators only

Nothing is ever going to get people to leave here permanently unless PTT's data is transfered. And that means all of it, not just a few "good picks". It could never be PTT without it. As for the second thing, I have to agree with the idea of electing new moderators for PTT2. Yes, those moderators do a great job here on PTT, yet PTT2 is not the same as PTT, not to mention some of them are inactive. If the people elects a certain amount (around 10?) it would benefit PTT2, if/when it ever gets #1 done. Yes, I know the creators of PTT2 will probably not do this, but it's their problem, not mine, seeing as how I'm not the one who wants to have complete control over the PTT community...

Lmao ^ We did something about it. You stood still. You stay when this does another vanishing act too. I hope PTT stays forever,, I DO NOT want to deal with the feeling theres no where to go again. Ok? Do what ever you want.

I think if you can say the site is run by the comunity, we should be able to elect our moderators/admins/whatever.

^^ Interesting. You must think you're some sort of hero with your PTT2. What you did was try to replace PTT, not provide somewhere to go when PTT next goes down. Remember TTT ? That's a ligitimate back-up site for PTT, not a replacement. Sure, it doesn't look fancy, and Pai's not to blame for it, because that doesn't matter . He didn't try to replace PTT with his, he tried to give us a place to go when PTT went down.

Now, you want to know why I didn't go putting up a back-up or replacing PTT like you did? Because of several reasons. It was almost Christmas when PTT went down, and I was simply too busy to put up a back-up. Another is that I have patience . I can wait for PTT to come back up, because I know that DanMac is doing the best he can here. And finally, I don't depend on these forums for life. I come here to get a laugh here and then, not to try and make myself boss of it all.

Now, I did nothing, true enough. I didn't need to do anything. You, on the other hand, did something. You aim to replace PTT, far worse than doing nothing. Do you understand the meaning of that, how an action can be worse than doing nothing? I'll take PTT just the way it is, whether it fails for a few days or not means nothing to me. I DO NOT want to deal with the feeling that a little wanna-be dictator is controlling the forums I go to. Ok? Do whatever you want on PTT2, as you would anyways.

Last edited: Thursday, January 04, 2007 at 6:42:07 PM

You know, this whole debate is entirely pointless if we all can donate enough money to cover the monthly hosting cost of PTT. Then people can do whatever they want.

Real grown up Jedirieb, any PTT2 major decisions will be made with a vote. You talk out of your arse. There will be no dictatorship on that forum. Think before you talk.

Edit:

This is pointless Player, If PTT stays GREAT if not, PTT2 is there. Nuff said.

Last edited: Thursday, January 04, 2007 at 7:08:25 PM

I feel small and insignificant...

Yet you drive a big and mighty tank :P

^^^ LOL. When you actually do something by vote that's important (by that, I mean the polls for which forum skin you like best and etc. Don't count), then you can say that. Until then, those are just words from a person who made a site with the intention of replacing PTT and being leader of it. And you're completely right, this is pointless, because you're not going to change, yet PTT'll still be here.

EDIT: Just to be completely clear with what I don't like: CB running PTT (or, in this case, it's replacement PTT2), and all the data from PTT being lost/forgotten. The second one's fixable with a bit of work and cooperation from GG, the first one not so much. _{By that, I mean his admining is questionable (and not just to me). And yes, I know I've never been an admin before, blah blah blah, it's not an excuse.}

V LOL.

Last edited: Thursday, January 04, 2007 at 7:28:23 PM

CrapBlaster do you really think PTT2 will never go down? All sites go down and it will happen to PTT2 to but if it does I'm sure someone will just start a PTT3 site.

Last edited: Thursday, January 04, 2007 at 7:25:22 PM

Big ideas always meet resistance. Don't let the noise cloud your vision.

^ True indeed. The question to be answered: "Is the big idea a good idea?" I say no (obviously).

If you'll notice -z- wrote this at the beginning of this site. He obviously welcomes ALL FAN SITES for the community - and is willing to list them on this site. He also makes clear that this site came from - you guessed it - A FAN SITE - his own.

PTT2 is a fan site, from people who love the game, and aspire to something more for their TT game site. Thats it. There is no evil plot, betrayal, or whatever... No evil plan hatched.... By evil people...

Last edited: Thursday, January 04, 2007 at 8:50:30 PM

PTT2 should not replace PTT because PTT2 is just a forum site. It's great for making posts and that's about it. You can create posts containing skins or mods or scripts or anything else you want. But you can not make that data easy to find. What about the Search you ask? A good website doesn't require a user to do a search everytime they use the site. It should be organized logically with menus/links to direct users to what they are looking for with a minimum number of clicks (and no typing). Just because you know where something is located on the web site doesn't mean others can find it quickly, even with a search feature. I've seen a company use software meant for forums and try to make it a corporate web site. People posted documents there because they were told to. Very few actually used it to find the information because it was a pain.

PTT could use better software to run it's forums. Maybe the forum links on PTT could point to PTT2. That would provide a better forum experience while maintaining all the data and information currently available from PTT. Who knows, reduced traffic on PTT forums might reduce lag in CTF. All the major web servers share their load (Yahoo, CNN, Google, etc) why not PTT?

^: I like the idea, it would serve to benefit PTT, CTF, etc. Could it work: yes. Would it benefit us: yes. Will it happen: Depends on cooperation.

^^: You miss the part where they make it blatently obvious that PTT2 is meant as a replacement of PTT.

I think that right there says it all. If you follow the link, read exactly what they say in the posts following that, it makes it quite obvious how much they care about PTT: none. No offense here, but you're wrong, it is a betrayal, and a replacement.

Crap blaster I think you did a fine job with the forums.

There are obviously some living in the 52nd state of Denial.

@ MJ
For the best of me I just can't follow your logic. Both PPT and PPT2 are forum sites. PPT2 is much fresher and I'm liking what I see for user options. Search is just one small part of it. Nice though. I once posted about "Biscuit-Fire" on PPT, feel free to locate it if you can.

I'm finding that PPT2 is easy to navigate with a quite familiar sense of navigation. There's been a lot of work there and a lot to explore though.

So what Jedi...

My point is that it isn't evil to build a site that people feel is better. Its what -z- did in the beginning here, and others have done the same thing many times over. Its their choice. You are making yours. Go figure.. This isnt where TT started for everyone. Some felt like Garage Games was home. PTT has served us well - and it will continue to do so. Some have grown tired of the limitations here and the "downtime" was an opportunity to explore those ideas and develop them. The whole hatched evil plot, betrayal, etc.. Well my friend... You are way off. Yes, I believe they started out to build a site to FUNCTION and REPLACE a PTT that had vanished. When it came back, and after a lot of work to bring a site up to snuff to function in a similar fashion as PTT, you can imagine that sentiment of wanting to enjoy the new fresh site exclusively. This isn't evil, and its certainly not betrayal...

Last edited: Thursday, January 04, 2007 at 11:11:02 PM

I think everything that's had to be said has been said atleast three times over. It's useless to keep debating over and over again, and therefore I won't anymore. Just wasting my time doing it, and everyone else's when they read it, therefore, this will be my last post here, and in any other thread of the sort.

P.S. Not sure which admin of PTT2 banned my e-mail there, but I admire the handywork, took me a few days to figure out why I couldn't log in, because you didn't ban the account, especially with that automatic message about being inactive. Clever indeed...

V I'm trying to end it here Rx, that's what the post is about.

Last edited: Friday, January 05, 2007 at 12:05:24 AM

Jedi we get your opinion. No need to keep beating the drum.

You got banned already? Is that the first one to get banned?

^ Over on the Delphi forums (I not trying to take over PTT! You don't have to join any other forums! Besides it costs actual money for all the features! Stay put, stay put!) they have a bozo feature. You can read and post but no one sees your posts if you've been bozoed. I love that idea :)

Edit: Heaven forbid I can't be the only one to belong to more that one forum can I?

Last edited: Thursday, January 04, 2007 at 11:53:46 PM

I think it's time to prepare to move on and let Dan have an extra $100 a month in his pocket. To my knowledge, the man's a ghost (I've never met or played with him, to my knowledge), and Flea has pointed out the obvious: Dan is too gracious to simply pull the plug, and would probably feel all the better to see the community fluorish at the other Site.

I remember the gritching about moving from GG to PTT.... Especially all the information and history we would "lose". I'm interested to see if the technical folks (or kids with lots of copy and paste time on their hands) can extract the useful gems in this site and move it over to PTT2. Even if they aren't able to move data, I think the value of PTT2, with it's customizable bells, whistles, and other features, plus more or less total control of the users, outweighs PTT in the long run.

We have to remember that these forums are costing $ for someone, somewhere. Dan's $ for this site will eventually dry up at some point, no matter how nice the guy is. It's just a matter of fact, and I don't blame him one bit. When that happens, we lose everything here. Over at PTT2, it appears that the $ load is distributed more evenly... Seems ownership and control could be transfered more easily when/if CB and Dr. S lose interest in TT (or whatever). We have to think in the long-term here.

I think the next month or so should be the proof in the pudding. If CB, Dr. S, and others can maintain the level of intensity they are currently devoting to PTT2 and continue to add the features that we all have been waiting and hoping for in vain here at PTT, I think people will vote with their feet. Assuming this is so, the community will move and coalesce at the new site, and sooner or later even those who have sworn their undying love and devotion to PTT (like it's some sort of religion or spouse) will follow the rest of the community. After all, it's all about keeping our little merry band of friends together, isn't it?

LC, if we can donate enough then money is not a problem. And like I keep saying we should have all of the useful info moved to PTT2 before we start talking about pulling the plug.

Theres alot of Cons in what Jedi said, but then again there are a few pros in there :P

Im limited on time, ill post about it later