http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/iraq/casualties/facesofthefallen.htm

The link above is to an amazing database of all who have fallen in Iraq, including photos, stats, and how they were killed in Iraq from the beginnning of the occupation to present.

Ironically 2 of the cards I read were of 2 local Minnesotans who were profiled, before I left the state last year, as young soldiers going to war in Iraq from our local communities. Both dead. :S

My heart goes out to the families and loved ones who are sending AND losing parts of themselves in Iraq, all their babies, all the people who never get to marry, have children, grow old, or play TT someday. Many of them the same basic age range of what I've seen here at PTT.

I'm sure I don't have to explain that they aren't just numbers being tallied by CNN on a daily bases they are real brothers, sisters, moms and dads dying over there so United Defense and Carlye Group can become multi-billionaires.(Mike Moore (http://www.michaelmoore.com/) and the list continues to grow.

Bush's self proclaimed title: "I am the president of war"

DO YOU ALL THINK WE CAN FIND A PERSON TO RUN THE COUNTRY THAT COULD PROCLAIM TO BE THE PRESIDENT OF PEACE?

If 15 of the 19 hi-jacker of 9/11 were Saudi why did we invade Afganistan and Iraq?

I guess there's just no making sense of the sensless...AND I'm sure that the population here at PTT is big enough that this NATIONAL TRAGEDY has touched some of your lives. My heart and my thoughts are with you.

Sincerely,
DrSawbones(UF)

Never Forget Fallen/MIA!

Last edited: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 at 4:26:55 AM

Dr., I honestly believe that such a crappy movie like Farenheit 9/11 would win an award for most "FAR-FETCHED Fantasy film of the Millenium". Michael Moore-BID is a literal BIG FAT IDIOT. He has no grismo or self-esteem. He probably doesnt even OWN A TOOTHBRUSH. Actuallly, 4get the toothpaste. With a mouth like his, he needs a 10-ton Dove Soap Bar. I think that retarded lunatic needs to be arrested.

Nice response Warpath. You've addressed all the issues with an intellectual grace unseen here on ptt.

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11: This link is all you should ever need: http://www.davekopel.org/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm

Re: Faces of the Fallen: NEVER forget that real people die. Every day. Peace would certainly be nice. We being humans, I doubt we will ever reach it, but that doesn't mean war is a good thing.

I don't see the point in arguing about WHY you are there.... You are..... END of story.. Now a means needs to be found to end the hostilities in the BEST possible way.. I also believe Michael Moore is an idiot..I think his movie is JUST a peice of fiction.. He presents only one side of the story and in a totally biased way.. The link he tries to form between Bush and Osama is just plain crazy.. I will paraphrase here.. "if anyone in your family commits a crime then you as a family member are equally guilty" Thank goodness our society doesn't work this way.. That said... I feel very a great loss at the brave men and women who are losing their lives.. May god be with them..

BTW, I should state that I have no clue what the rest of Kopel's politics is. He claims to be a liberal, working for the Nader campaign in the previous elections.

Warpath's Revised Opinion.

Let me start of by giving the DOCTOR here a little scenario about what THIS war is all ABOUT!

Chapter 1
Bush's Psychology on the War in Iraq and the People's Ego

Let me elaborate how Michael Moore is an IDIOT. Even though he is retarded no questions asked, newbies to politics should know the inner workings of his twisted mind. Bush at the second presidential debate for the 2004 elections...."No president wants to go to war. War is a horrible thing." I agree with Bush. He clearly has the right view of war. Unfortunately most Americans can't aprreciate Bush's humble attitude. Mainly because they are playing games like "Battlefield" series that don't portray the half of death's true horror, whereas Bush is an expert at such a matter.

Chapter 2
Why We Went In

Osama bin Laden. 9/11. You know the drill. After receiving video footage of his hearings, Bush found out that Osama was behing 9/11 and planning to launch more secret operations against the USA. We went in immediatly. BTW, THANKS TO THE SOLDIERS WHO ANSWERED THE CALL OF DUTY AND LEFT THEIR FAMILIES! After chasing Osama thoughout Afganistan, eventually, he became a dormant volcano. His threats slept with him. Never missing a cue, however, Saddam Hussein started to cause his own trouble in Iraq. He was found with WMDs (Weapons of Mass Destruction) by British Intelligence in the early 90's. We currently thought that he still had them and would use them against us in the present. Thinking this, we went right in. The mission (and I dont care what these politicaly inept liberals have to say) was a downright success. Bottom line: We caught Hussein red-handed, end of story and end of debate. Bush did a good job and so did the troops (THX again guys).

Chapter 3
What is wrong with Micheal Moore

If Micheal Moore's view of Bush in Farenheit 9/11 were put on the back of a boat, the ship would raise like the Titanic from the unbalenced weight of his opinion.
SEEN HERE> .
Micheal Moore's driving force behing this movie is his far-fetched imagination of Bush. He clearly had no big plans for the movie because all it has done so far is ruin his reputation and represent him for the idiot he truly is. He only took a look at one side of Bush and said not one nice thing about him throughout the entire movie's span. He is a virtual revolutionist who is using the power of the media for his own twisted lies to be made public. He is the real threat in this chapter of America's history. The same psychology that Moore has is
the same psychology of the Serbian revolutionist who started World War I with the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand and his wife. I say that such a despicable and disgusting lie of a movie should never have crossed Micheal's twisted mind. Even for him, that is really low.

Chapter 4
What America is saying

First of all, most of Americans BERATE Farenheit 9/11 with their deepest feelings of their heart. I don't know how or when Moore got the idea that the "American People" call it the year's best movie, but that just adds to his crazy imagination. Most Amercans should and do think Farenheit 9/11 is a modernised "Alice in Wonderland". Mabye Moore's movie should be renamed to "Micheal in Wishwashworld". Well, I think I've said enough (breaks a sweat) ;).

I hope many Amercans read this so they know how despiseable Moore is.

Warpath

Last edited: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 at 1:44:11 AM

The Washington Post would be gracious to also post the Iraqi deaths - but we aren't there yet. American deaths on one side, all others on the other side. Such webpage compiling all victims of this 'war' would show very asymetric statistics. I doubt it's possible - there are far too many dead, both military and civilian.. :(

RIP anyone killed by world geopolitics. :(

17,000 wounded
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/10/1537224

About 20,000 Iraqui civilian dead
http://www.iraqbodycount.net/

Change the channel
- Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt's advice to Iraqis who see TV images of innocent civilians killed by coalition troops.
[NYT 12th April 2004]

Honestly folks,

I guess it's my fault for elaborating past the fallen/MIA in Iraq on to my own thoughts...my appologies. Let's get this thing back on track here!

Here's what this thread is supposed to be about: Stories about life and your experiences with this current bloody mess in Iraq.

I have a first cousin. She flys the transport planes for the Airforce into Iraq 2-3 times a week. She flys from the US to Iraq and has but one escort plane. She has been shot at numerous times, and the plane has made 2 emergency landings to date. How did she come to again fly for the Airforce after having served her time in the military you ask? Well she was flying a United passenger jet on 9/11.

For those of you interested in trying to stop the occupation of Iraq and return what is left of American dignity follow this older link...
http://www.unitedforpeace.org/article.php?id=2697

DrSawbones(UF)

@Above - you know who you are
As far as moore / bush slam-ranting and tall story telling. IOpen a new thread...bring it on War-H! Just don't do it here please.

Last edited: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 at 6:24:43 AM

Can you imagine Adlai Stevenson going before the Security Council of the UN to make America's case against the Soviet Union, presenting our allegations and our evidence that the Soviets were placing intermediate range nuclear missiles (WMD) in Cuba, and having that evidence be revealed to be totally and completely false? JFK avoided a nuclear confrontation and found a PEACEFUL resolution to an unprecedented nuclear threat to the security of the United States when we actually WERE threatened by weapons of mass destruction, not 7,000 miles away, but only 90 miles away (5 minute air time from launch to detination over Washington, DC).

I believe the republican executives of this administration have chosen war over peace for reasons which I consider dishonorable, deceitful and unnecessary. I feel that in the aftermath of Sept. 11 a majority of the world came together in sympathy and support of our nation not seen since President Kennedy was assassinated. But, in a period of little more than a year, in declaring to the world that Iraq represented an immediate threat to the security of the United States, and that unilateral military action was our only available solution because of the WMD imperative, that international goodwill and support was turned into almost unanimous opposition. To have squandered the support and solidarity which might otherwise have been the foundation of a truly international effort to examine the conditions that create breeding ground for terrorists, is something for which I believe this president and his advisors should have been denied a second term.

For those interested and open to alternate depictions of the story of this war, you might find the documentary, "Control Room", worthy of consideration. The interview doc, "Fog of War", Vietnam era Secretary of Defense, Robert McNamara speaking with the benefit of hindsight is also highly recommendable. I suspect that Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz et al have had neither the time nor the inclination to watch either one.

Someone remind me again how many times the continental US has been attacked since 9/11?

^Please, if you're going to argue that we shouldn't be over there at all, use a somewhat reasonable argument. People have been arrested for trying to smuggle explosives into the country.

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/LAW/08/13/arms.sting.details/

Well, well, well... I never realized that THIS is what Bush does in his spare time!!!
XD

TMO, I think Chief is saying Bush's war has been effective since we haven't been attacked since 9/11. Not that the Iraq War was the only measure Bush took to secure our country, but I think its helped.