Maybe I press too hard in an effort to go faster in my tank, but my up arrow key has bit the dust again! I have been using Apple standard USB keyboard (wired), but have found that they only last 3 or 4 months of TT use and abuse.

Anyone have better luck with other brands of keyboards? Especially one that's cheaper? These cost around $50.00.

Maybe we should set up a keyboard exchange for people who trash different keys. I have several that are just fine (except for a trashed up-arrow key)!

Go faster! Press harder!! Onward!!!

-Rx

Right now I am using a crappy Micro Innovations Media Keyboard, it costs around $15 bucks, It's not the best in the world, but it works for me. It seems to be pretty durable.

Did you try using the WASD keys to move?

Yeah good point. I will try the WASD keys. Hope my brain can adjust. I've gotten used to the arrow keys because they are off by themselves so there are less other keys to 'get in the way'.

This is why Macs SUCK.

Hey, look at me, im using a 6 year old Acer keyboard that came with a windows 98,its gone though more abuse than the hostages in Iraq, and its still works fine!

LOL.
I've got a logitec wireless. Helps me move it around and ward off carpul tunnel :). But it sucks when the batteries get low.
The arrow keys are too hard to play with, I use the WASD keys.
But I havn't ever tried mashing them down harder. Maybe that's why Rx always kicks my butt at scrum. I'm not pressing the keys hard enough. :P

@ Mr Bigshoe(SA)

Just because your 1974 Ford Pinto still runs doesn't make it the best car on the road...

Last edited: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 at 6:52:07 PM

If you're looking for a tough keyboard, get on eBay and look for an old IBM Model M. The one I have was originally made for an IBM ps/2 286 machine. I've spilled more beer on it than I care to admit, but it's still going strong.

They're made of metal and built to last. Instead of little foil domes for contacts, they have big old "buckling springs" under each key.

They make an awful racket when you type on them, but the tactile feedback that the keys give goes a long way to preventing repetitive strain from long hours of typing. If you search on Google, you'll find entire websites devoted to their virtues.

You can usually get them on eBay for about 20 bucks, but shipping tends to be high because they're so heavy. You'll want to find one close to home.

I just use a same old state of the art Microsoft keyboard, and it works like a charm! It's never failed me (even under so much stress and abuse :) )

Cadc (SA) (Leader)

Mine was state of the art - 14 years ago. XD

napalm that makes no sense. First off, that car was a pretty good car, and when things get older they get worse.

But what I was saying is that a 6 year old Windows keyboard with extra abuse is more reliable than an Apple keyboard.
(this keyboard probably only cost 20$)

Been using my original Apple Pro wired keyboard and mouse for a few years nows. I've never had a single problem.

Actually it does. The reference to the older keyboard (the ford pinto) states; it still works, therefore its better. Not necessarily true.

BTW the Ford Pinto was not a pretty good car. It was a piece of SHIT

That's why Ford was indicted for reckless homicide 9/78

Get your head out of the tailpipe...

Napalm

Last edited: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 at 6:55:32 PM

Oh Guys...

IBM Model M Heaven Shop

If anybody's interested in more info on the Model M, Dan's Data has a good review here:

http://www.dansdata.com/ibmkeyboard.htm

(buy a Nostromo N52) It only costs about $35, takes an immense amount of abuse, is cross-platform, and has great Mac software. It is VERY well worth the investment. You can buy it anywhere online, you will also find it at just about any CompUSA.

For those that don't know, the Nostromo is a left hand game contoller. It acts like an extension of the keyboard and has 14 programmable full-sized keyboard keys, a scroll wheel, a 8-way thumbpad, and two thumb buttons. I program in 9 macros and text strings and map all keys. My left hand never has to leave the nostromo during a game and I never have to look for keys.....

It is a really good way to play TT.

Have fun,
Katherine

My friend has one of those, they control beautifully and are really easy to handle.

I really want one of those when I get enough money.

I second TG's comments. I bought one after my original keyboard went out (D key and left arrow). It took a little while for the keys to "break in"or maybe I needed to adjust to the feel of the Nostromo's keys. Either way, it has worked well for me since then and I haven't had to replace my replacement keyboard. Now if I could only say the same thing about my mouse :P

I need one of those

MS must make the best keyboards....in 2 days is my 1 year anniversary of buying TT...

That thing has been ABUSED

B

RX,
Obviously it's time to practice your backwards driving ;)

I would opt for the Nostromo myself if you're blowing through keyboards Reag. Even though I don't have one myself…yet.

And it seems you've discovered one of the dirty secrets about Apple. They make awesome well built computers, but their keyboards and mice are horrendous. I have a pile, literally, of them here at work, that I'm taking apart little by little to get some of them to work again if even possible (the keyboards, not the mice) It seems a critical key here or there, like, oh, the SPACEBAR, just stops working for no apparent reason. Makes me crazy. Unfortunately there aren't many alternatives for keyboards for us.

@ TankGirl |K8|

Which parts of the Nostromo N52 controls what? For instance the tank F R L R driving is controlled by?

The turret aiming is controlled by?

And of course the firing is controlled by?

Just trying to see how this works..

@ OM
It's not just Apple, We upgraded our machines (53) a couple of years ago at work to Dual 533 CPU Graphite G4's and added MS optical intellimice to all except four. The four had Kensington trackballs. We had to order and additional 100 mice because the optical mice were failing so often. In addition to that headache the Kensington track balls all failed at least twice.

In my gut I feel there was something "not quite right" with the USB on those machines. We routinely had to replace keyboards as well.
Since moving to the Quick Silver and G5 boxes this has resided completely.
The only KB I have had to replace came at the hands of a childish tirade which ended up in me punching the keyboard and having to replace it. I don't do that any more, too expensive, and I take it quite a bit lighter now..

Thanks!
Napalm

Last edited: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 at 11:54:17 AM

Napalm its probably just like a keyboard excpet it doesnt have all the heys...
You probably just aim and shoot with your mouse.

Maybe, but K8 will be able to give a definitive answer.

I think the Nostromo is fully programmable, meaning you can set whatever keys you want on the pad to do the driving. I imagine you still use the mouse to aim the turret and firing? :o

Napalm, you could be right about the USB not being quite right. The machines I've had so many keyboard/mice failures on were all graphite dual G4's. So my experience would seem to correlate with yours.
I'm glad to hear since going G5's you've not had the failures. We're planning/hoping to move to G5's across the board sometime soon.

Last edited: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 at 12:06:42 PM

I am just in heaven with the G5 hardware and combination of OSX. I know the USB on the graphite machines was not new, (meaning is was already on the B/W G3's) but I know there was something not right.

I have had no issues since moving from that hardware config. Still it was just a hassle more than anything. I still love the MAC.... :)

Last edited: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 at 2:17:24 PM

I use a happy hacking keyboard . I like it

HaHa

Yeah mac doesnt take pide in thier keyboards...they take pride in there gnarly computers!

Pretty keyboard dash. :)

Yeah it's funny. Last time this happened a few months ago I went down to CompUSA and bought the Nostromo! I set it up in great anticipation, and YIKES! My brain could not deal with it! It was so different I couldn't handle it. So many buttons - my god! Some of the buttons were sticking on mine too - seemed kind of poorly made. And then to switch from shooting to chatting meant I had to move my hand all the way over to my keyboard and back constantly. I suppose I could have gotten used to it eventually, but I returned it the next day!

That's why I was asking. I'm wondering if the physical set up is more in tune for scrumming or BM. I don't see any of the top players endorsing the product. That's why I was looking for some more information from Kate about this product. It appears she has adapted to it fairly well.

Napalm

Hiya Napalm,

I am a game geek apparently.
You map the keys in the same configuration as the play keys on your keyboard. If you notice in the picture, the top center and second row keys have red arrows? They have the same placement as the WASD keys on your keyboard.

I use the thumb key to respawn after dying, I use the above mentioned "Red Arrow" keys for driving, I use the remaining keys for macros ("Thank U", "Very Nice", "LOL", etc).

Turret and shooting is all mouse.

If you want to try something really powerful, program the thumb key for reverse, that way you can switch much faster between forward and reverse. I tried it for a while and could see that it would be good, but I am far too accustomed to using my middle finger for forward and reverse, so I gave up.

The nice thing is, the N52 is always aware of what game you are playing, so once you map the keys for some of your games (TT, Halo, C&C, Homeworld2, etc) , the N52 is ready for you when you launch.... Very nice.

Reagent, did you try the Nostromo N50 or the N52? The N52 replaced the N50 and is much more solid.

FWIW, I think the nostromo has made it much easier to chat.....

Katherine

I can see how that may provide some advantages. I appreciate the explanation.

Napalm

My mac g5 and powerbook keyboards, open box purchase even on the g5, the latter surviving an evian dousing, still going strong through TT inception.
I remember when I was a kid watching cats in the arcade MASH LIKE HELL on those poor buttons. Sounded like breaking bones, smashing rocks.
Be like water.

Last edited: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 at 6:53:04 PM

My keyboard isn't high tech enough to get evian spilled on it. The left shift is stuck from year-old lemonade.

BTW a friend has a Nostromo and let me try it. That was the most confusing thing I ever used after the XBox controller. But I'm a PS geek so ignore me.

The Nostromo does have a lot of buttons but all you need are the 4 buttons that replace WASD. Don't worry about any other buttons. Just drive with those 4 buttons and shoot with your mouse. I did program the thumb button to simulate the space bar so I wouldn't have to take my hand off the controller during a game.

As RX mentioned, you do have to take your hand off the Nostromo controller to type a message. It can be annoying if you like to talk as you play. I'm usually not a big chatter during a game so it didn't bother me. During intense games (like in PSL), I am apt to miss chat messages entirely since my focus is on driving, shooting, or the radar. After I was used to the Nostromo, I started to add macros for chatting (Need to pass, n1,etc.). I just programmed a few of them on the thumb pad. Of course, once in a while I'd hit one accidentally and tell everyone I need to pass when I'm no where near the scrum (or better yet, playing BM).

The buttons did stick a bit when I first started using the Nostromo. However, I to am a practicer of the "Go faster! Press Harder!" method of driving. It didn't take me too long to break in those sticky buttons. :)

Now that I have supported the Nostromo, I will confess to playing most of the past PSL season using a keyboard. There seems to be something flaky going on with my controls when playing TT. I replaced my mouse (4th one I think) after the first match of the season. The steering controls seemed to be off so I switched from the Nostromo back to the keyboard. It helped some but not enough to convince me the problem is (completely) with the Nostromo. I'm sure it is nothing that could not be fixed by dual G5's and a good video card. :) Until I make the jump to a new machine, I'll probably stick w/ the keyboard (Kensington Multimedia).

Why cant you use the D-pad on the nostromo to drive?

B

Hiya Bolo, you could use the D-Pad to drive (I experimented with that), but it isn't a very satisfying experience. I tried a lot of different combinations and always came back to the old standard WASD setup. It somehow does not seem like an immersive experience when the driving and maneuvering portion of gameplay is delegated to the tip of the thumb.

I love the Nostromo. I guess I was lucky because I did not experience any key sticking problems with either the N50 or the N52. For me, it has been a very good experience for gaming. Not only is it more comfortable than the keyboard, being able to easily map the keys for each game that I obsess over, and having the Nostromo automatically load that map set just by launching the game, is very nice.

Katherine

In addition to waht Katherine stated: you can only go in one direction at a time and it takes longer with the dpad that holding down two keys and releasing one. Keys are quicker than the dpad.

Napalm

Last edited: Thursday, November 11, 2004 at 11:39:40 AM

I'm not Mr. Chit-chat during games, and I don't like reading long chat treatises while in the game, but I do like to be able to make quick, timely comments after key plays or events. This can often be a pre-programmed "baaaaa" or a "woot!", but the best is some spontaneous (and semi-original) comment. So I like to maximize my ability to chat quickly and then jump back into the game incurring minimal strategic cost.

Because of this, I haven't been able to adapt to the WASD keys or the Nostromo. Btw, TG I think I tested the Nostromo N52. I like the arrow keys because they are separated out in their own little area on the keyboard and I can find the right key instantly by feel. Plus they are close enough to the letters so I can jump over for a quick chat.

With the Nostromo I felt a sense of isolation from being really into the game because there was this barrier of having to re-orient all the time. The last thing I need is to have more difficulty orienting if you know what I mean! ;)

So, the latest is that I went to CompUsa yesterday and laid out $14.99 for a Memorex Multimedia USB keyboard for the PC. I played on it last night and it is fine! Not quite as pleasant to type on, but the arrow keys work fine.

Note for other Mac users: From my little experiment (I haver a Mac G5) it appears that you can totally use PC keyboards on a Mac! The Windows key simply becomes the Apple key! The Alt key becomes the option key on the Mac. I never knew this!

Now I can continue to MASH the keys without worry, knowing that I can pay less than 1/3 the price for a replacement! XD

I should also note what Azazel mentioned to me last night: that Apple keyboards have a 1 year warranty, so I should be able to get a replacement. Good point! Too bad I threw out all the receipts!

-Rx

For what it's worth, I'll second InfiniteMonkey's comment about the IBM Model M keyboard. I got one for $5 at GoodWill. It's loud, the resistance is a little more than a mac keyboard will give you, but the thing is tough (It's survived Paco and Old Duffer's playing). For you mac users, it also has the added bonus of no Windows key. :) (Though you'll need a PS2/USB adapter to hook it up to a mac.)

Now, any suggestions for a durable mouse? My right click button is worn out...

@Lag Man

If you're middle class, you want wireless, and if you travel alot, may I suggest the mouse I'm using right now, the "Logitech® Cordless Optical Mouse for Notebooks".

I've had this thing for about 1 year, and it still looks like it's brand new. It still works pretty good even though there's a 20-month old in my house.

It also has a good firm feeling to it, and you can tell it's a high quality mouse saying that it's pretty heavy.

Last edited: Saturday, November 13, 2004 at 9:17:03 PM

@Reag- regarding PC keyboards, what key do you use to open up the DVD tray? Without that, in some cases you might be screwed. Unless you install the "eject" menu extra.

@OM: You are right! No eject key. Didn't notice that. Well I still have my Apple keyboard right here for backup, as its perfectly fine - _{except for a mashed arrow key} .

Last edited: Saturday, November 13, 2004 at 10:50:23 PM

OMG

Stupid macs.....PC's have a button

B

Bolo, for once I have to agree with you. I've never liked that Apple removed the button on the outside of the DVD tray. It wasn't always like that. They only changed it about 2-3 years ago. I think it's a dumb decision. They seem so obsessed with clean exterior design, that they remove basic functionality for it.

Reag, you can also use the eject menu extra. It puts a little guy like this in your menu bar:

I think it's found in System/Library/CoreServices/Menu Extras/ Just double-clicking it should put it in your menu bar.

Last edited: Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 11:32:56 AM

Reag, you might be able to use USB Overdrive to map an unused key on your keyboard to the DVD tray.

(I wish windows had a similar app that allows application sensitive overrides for keyboards and gamepads and other USB input devices.).

Bigshoes, looks like a nice mouse. I tried cordless a fews years back, and they were too slow for my taste (the was lag in response time). Maybe it's time to give them another try. Will have to find a model with forward a back buttons.

Wow, I just tried OM's suggestion and it works great! Perfect solution and couldn't be easier - thanks!

If you open up a new finder window, you’ll notice an eject button next to all removable media. The button is no longer necessary to eject any media. You can as well drag and drop. Eject buttons are for MS retards that (as usual) make things more difficult than they need to be!! LOL

Napalm

There is...google it or search download.com

U actually thought there was something for mac that isnt for pc?

Hehe

BTW still waiting for my nostromo to ship GDIIIIIIIIIIII

B

I've googled for it before, never found anything. I remember being surprised I couldn't find anything... I probably have the wrong search terms. Got a name for the app?