Well, people, lets all give the pope a moment of silence and prayers. :[ :[

Last edited: Saturday, April 02, 2005 at 1:24:21 PM

Rest In Peace :[

Last edited: Saturday, April 02, 2005 at 1:31:50 PM

:'-[

Amen.

Amen. I was on a airplane when I heard. Some people started crying.

Where were you flying?

^ Kris, that's TOTALLY uncalled for. I'm not Catholic but I can at least show some respect for the man! Mods, please delete his post!

Edit: Thanks CL!

Last edited: Saturday, April 02, 2005 at 3:23:28 PM

Kristoffer, I have just deleted your comment. That talk alone should get you banned from PTT. I've just put you on my banlist for my server. If you say anything like that again, I'll make sure that your IP is distributed to all people in the admin circle (a.k.a you'll be banned from almost all servers). Don't EVER do that again. XO

Last edited: Saturday, April 02, 2005 at 3:22:47 PM

Kristoffer, it's ok to have some fun and to voice your opposition, but it's even better to have respect for the deceased, even if this person is your enemy. That is the meaning of Rest In Peace.

I remember when John Paul II was elected to the papacy. He's been a very great influence for a long time.

Kristoffer, on the other hand... Disrespect has no place here.

I hope this long post won't upset the thread. A great man has passed away and I would like to comment on his legacy - his work during his life as the head of the catholic Church.
------------
RIP JP2 1920-2005

The Pope is Dead, long live the Pope!
The institution outlasts the man...

Yet this was a good man. Somehow I'm weary for the future. It will be hard to find another such pope. Let's hope for the best.

John was in many respect uncompromising. He often clearly voiced his disgust at world events, and protested aloud against policies from great and small countries. His calls for world peace, his philosophy of trying to reach out to other religions, especially the Orthodox Church and Islam, his preaching of tolerance and respect for other religions and belief systems, his blanket apology to the oppression of the church through history (those 2000+ years are not immaculate!), in effect JP was a very modern man. Somehow he bridged tradition with 20th century human rights.

I think it's interesting he kept a so-called traditional position on some hot topics. Of course we couldn't ask him to condone abortion and sexual promiscuity. Silly to ask the Church to do so - for if they don't oppose it, who will?

About women in the Church institution, I personally think there is no need for such reform, and approve of the traditional way in this respect. When one joins the priesthood one makes vows to love to serve God, and I dare say relationships between men and women is quite complicated and can detract one from the holy path. Divine endeavor and real-life couple politics don't work well IMO. Of course we can have visions of the ultimate religious couple, but in reality most couples would fall off the mark. By saying this I'm not cynical: I'm saying divine vows and marriage vows are 2 things.

By too much 'modernizing' of the church one is sure to alienate one faction to please another, and the ultimate mid-term consequence would be the division of the Church. An example of that is the Protestant church which now has so many denomination and went through so many 'schisms' - even recently over the same-sex issues. But then perhaps those schism are healthy? I don't think everything should be on the table all the time. In our post-modern era of deconstruction, simulacra and and ephemera it's nice to have such old institution amongst us.

I think John Paul was a good pope. In a cynical age he was often ridiculed - but so what? Cynicism is easy after all - actually the easiest path. To uphold principle is the hard thing in this world.

I wonder what he would have done in stead of Pius XII, who cowardly navigated the WW2 era in a guilty silence. But then what? To voice the insanity of the Fascism regimes would have been powerful - perhaps the Pope himself would have been stopped, or worse - and such martyrdow could have been a wake-up call accross the world? The Church missed an opportunity to shine in the 40's IMO. But then it certainly is far from the Cesar Borgia and co. Farces of the 15h century.

The papacy is a secular, and as such a political body, yet John was a tender man I think. A girlfriend saw him in Toronto 2 years ago and she said: 'he was a very frail man, but he had such love in his eyes'. She broke down upon seeing him. I think he was benevolent, and not cynical or too much into real-politik. He navigated the waters well.

Over the years I read excerpts of his several books (I forgot the exact term for the Pope's writings 'Pontifical Bulletin' or something?) and always liked his way of writing.

Now the search is on for a new pope. I wonder how long it will be. Those are big shoes to fill. Indeed there is word of an African (don't hammer me Rabban! Lol) or Asian or S.American Pope. Traditionally the pope was European, but this will likely change as Catholicism is on the rise on those continents.

RIP JP2 1920-2005

Pope was a man with pure of heart
Rich and fortune was not in his part
Pope was a peaceful man
Wanted war to be... Banned.
So rest in peace
We won't forget.

Last edited: Saturday, April 02, 2005 at 11:46:28 PM

Beutiful poem. ISW. (Im Silentley Weeping). :'(

R.I.P John Paul II

Death is a horrible thing

^Double Post

Me thinks death will not for this man be so "horrible" ^

I, as a non-Catholic Christian found the Vatican and "Pope" as
kind of counter to the message. Yet ironically, this pope was one
of the very attractive aspects of the church for me. He was a great
man and his influence and impact on humanity have, at the very
least, a strong indication of the living and active God's hand at work in
the world.

May we be blessed with such an influence in the one who is to follow.