Anyone seen it? Anyone refusing to see it?

I am SO ready to see it! I think every American needs to see it, unfortunately it seems as if some folks want to avoid the whole thing and pretend it never happened. I think that's too bad. We need to be reminded of what happened and from what I've heard, Flight 93 does a pretty good job of putting it all together accurately and with respect.

Planning to see how accurate they are. I want to see if they know there "stuff". Everybody says that its very accurate. Im intrested.

It sounds very interesting. I too want to see how accurate they are. I might have to see it when it is rental tho :(

Same here blitzer

People bring up a valid point in whether they want to see it or not

Is america ready to go through the whole scare again when we haven't fully recovred already?

Or

Shouldn't we honor the souls who protected our nations capital and respect them by watching this? Since everyone forgot about it, shouldnt we remind them how important they are?

@ Tankster:

You are exactly right. The people on that plane could have given in to their hijackers, but no, they were true Americans and gave their lives to help prevent the deaths of many others. Imagine what would have happened. That plane was heading for the white house, had it hit it, the country would have been thrown into complete chaos. Personally, I think it is every American's duty to see the movie - to acknowledge those who stood up and said "enough". They may have lost their lives, but they did not die in vain, they were fighting for a cause, To keep their friends, families and even strangers safe.

A while ago I watched a film very similar to this movie and it was about Flight 93. They did a simulation of what may have happened between the time when the plane was hijacked to when it crashed into a Pennsylvania field. I was awestruck by the amount of courage and bravery that the passengers had - and how much they had to go through and overcome (ie. Fear and dieing) to help prevent the deaths of others.

God Bless those passengers for sacrificing their lives to allow us to fight against the evil regime of terrorism.

Disclaimer: here I'm talking about cinema, and not about the actual historical event. A representation is never the reality; it's a simulacra, a simulation.
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I may see this movie just to see the propaganda! But then I've seen so many such movies...

This movie will add another layer of simulacra to the whole 9/11 thing. It will be overly emotional, full of inflated sentiments, and will use all the techniques of cinema (orchestral score with main theme in minor chords, sharp editing, Greengrass signature handheld camera, character development, etc.), to move the watcher to tears at the end by showing 'real working class americans' turning into heroes, always a favorite. They will of course perish, but will do so not before giving a fight (used to be Rambo or Bruce Willis giving the fight at the time).

Plus it's great cinema: there are so many films out there playing on the fear of those traveling by planes (hehe 'Snakes on a Plane is coming soon too!), except this time, contrary to the usual Hollywood orthodoxy, it will have a bad ending; which is interesting for the emotional release it creates.

Of course you'll have the usual 'pros': the military, perhaps the CIA and FBI are there too, a bunch of confident folks in uniform with high-tech gadgetry, on which we usually rely to save the movie protagonists, in which we place our confidence; the 'antidote' to Evil. So many Hollywood movies rely on those blessed guardian angels, thus always re-validating their presence in the real world.

It's a second (or third?) rally-cry for 9/11, 'lest we forget' is now 'never forget'. But we cannot forget now, we must always be reminded of selective history, drilled over and over. The 'never forget' started perhaps after WW2. Ah! Centuries ago we still could forget...

I went to the website the other day:
http://www.united93movie.com/index.php
The music is beautiful, it conveys a religious experience, a 'holiness' to the site, à la Dead Can Dance style. Got to like it.

This movie will be a cathartic experience to a lot of people, mainly the american people of course, after all it's something that happened over the US territory.

I love cinema!

Last edited: Sunday, April 30, 2006 at 10:28:55 AM

^ Lots of assumption in that one, HB. I suspect that the Director would prefer that you actually see the film before reviewing it. The two reviews that I've read have each remarked about the tasteful choices the film makes by avoiding molodramatic contrivance and an exaggerated appeal to heroic patriotism. If Sly Stallone or Bruce Willis had a role in this, I'd probably assume the worst, too. I will withold any assessment until I see it; I am intrigued, not because this terrible series of events took place over American territory, but because we've all flown in airplanes with people we've never met and just hoped to arrive safely at our destination. If you've ever put a loved one on a plane, you know what I mean. The poignancy of the story is not an issue of politics or nationality

^ True that. I must say I'm a bit disillusioned about Hollywood, I'm even suspicious - it's an industry after all, responsible to their shareholders, and wanting to achieve maximum viewership.

In that respect I read a review where someone (quite upset) said that nowhere in the movie the world 'muslim', 'islam' or 'jihad' is mentioned. That person was really pissed off.

Like we all know in order to achieve a 'tasteful' and politically correct movie we always have to expunge unpleasant facets of reality - as in, what motivate those guys to do such gesture. (A well-made movie in that respect was Syriana, which was exploring the different point of view via multiple parallel plots.)

Of course in order to present them as villain and tterrorists it's necessary to remove all human references to them. That's where the Rambo mindset kicks in.

My mind works in polemic: I picture another (parallel?) movie focusing entirely on the alleged terrorists, their lives and training, their motivations. To do that kind of cold blood stuff (hijack and plane slamming) you need to be seriously driven and / or brainwashed. You need to operate at another level. You need to be beyond brainwashed.

There is now in the world an irreconcilable difference between the fanaticism of the jihadists and the westerners seeing themselves as innocent victims. I don't know how it will be resolved.

On another related note, I'm not sure what to think about the released transcript of Flight 93 last communications with the ground. Lots of 'Allah is great' in that one. It was kind of ludicrous to read the transcript - it has the feel of a B-Movie. I doubt the movie U93 will re-enact the same 'dialogue' - even though it's an historical document. That would be very much politically incorrect - even though it's history.

Last edited: Sunday, April 30, 2006 at 1:44:48 PM

I agree. I believe that the dichotomy to which you refer is actually multi or pan-polemical. There's no question that the aftermath of 9/11 provoked some reexamination of questions which many people in the west have considered only reluctantly. The most relevant of those questions to me is, Why would anyone or any group conspire to do such a thing?, or, Why do they hate US? (Let's assume for the sake of discussion that the answer requires greater depth than, "Because they hate our freedom", (unbelievable).

Here's a link to a lengthy 5 part essay written by the contemporary philosopher, Ken Wilber: http://wilber.shambhala.com/html/books/boomeritis/intro/intro.cfm/

The title of the piece is "The Deconstruction of the World Trade Towers, A Date That Will Live In A Sliding Chain of Signifiers". Wilber is the founder of the branch of Psychology called "Integral". In this essay he refers to the Developmental Model, Spiral Dynamics, created by Dr. Clare Graves (expanded by Dr. Don Beck), which employs a simple color code sequence in two teirs from Beige to Turqoise with each color representing a dynamic level of complexity and integration. Spiral Dynamics addresses both Human History and Human psychological/social/spiritual development.

This basic description of the individual levels will be helpful before reading the Wilber essay.

Spiral Dynamics

The Eight-Stage Spiral of Development

Second Tier: "Being" valueMEMES

TURQUOISE Holistic MEME—starting 30 years ago
Basic theme: Experience the wholeness of existence through mind and spirit

* The world is a single, dynamic organism with its own collective mind
* Self is both distinct and a blended part of a larger, compassionate whole
* Everything connects to everything else in ecological alignments
* Energy and information permeate the Earth's total environment
* Holistic, intuitive thinking and cooperative actions are to be expected

YELLOW Integrative MEME—starting 50 years ago
Basic theme: Live fully and responsibly as what you are and learn to become

* Life is a kaleidoscope of natural hierarchies, systems, and forms
* The magnificence of existence is valued over material possessions
* Flexibility, spontaneity, and functionality have the highest priority
* Differences can be integrated into interdependent, natural flows
* Understands that chaos and change are natural

"What I am proposing is that the psychology of the mature human being is an unfolding, emergent, oscillating, spiraling process, marked by progressive subordination of older, lower-order behavior systems to newer, higher-order systems as man's existential problems change."
Dr. Clare Graves

First Tier: "Subsistence" valueMEMES

GREEN Communitarian/Egalitarian MEME - starting 150 years ago
Basic theme: Seek peace within the inner self and explore, with others, the caring dimensions of community

* The human spirit must be freed from greed, dogma, and divisiveness
* Feelings, sensitivity, and caring supersede cold rationality
* Spreads the Earth's resources and opportunities equally among all
* Reaches decisions through reconciliation and consensus processes
* Refreshes spirituality, brings harmony, and enriches human development

ORANGE Achievist/Strategic MEME - starting 300 years ago
Basic theme: Act in your own self-interest by playing the game to win

* Change and advancement are inherent within the scheme of things
* Progresses by learning nature's secrets and seeking out best solutions
* Manipulates Earth's resources to create and spread the abundant good life
* Optimistic, risk-taking, and self-reliant people deserve success
* Societies prosper through strategy, technology, and competitiveness

BLUE Purposeful/Authoritarian MEME - starting 5,000 years ago
Basic theme: Life has meaning, direction, and purpose with predetermined outcomes

* One sacrifices self to the transcendent Cause, Truth, or righteous Pathway
* The Order enforces a code of conduct based on eternal, absolute principles
* Righteous living produces stability now and guarantees future reward
* Impulsivity is controlled through guilt; everybody has their proper place
* Laws, regulations, and discipline build character and moral fiber

RED Impulsive/Egocentric MEME - starting 10,000 years ago
Basic theme: Be what you are and do what you want, regardless

* The world is a jungle full of threats and predators
* Breaks free from any domination or constraint to please self as self desires
* Stands tall, expects attention, demands respect, and calls the shots
* Enjoys self to the fullest right now without guilt or remorse
* Conquers, out-foxes, and dominates other aggressive characters

PURPLE Magical/Animistic MEME - starting 50,000 years ago
Basic theme: Keep the spirits happy and the tribe's nest warm and safe

* Obeys the desires of the spirit being and mystical signs
* Shows allegiance to chief, elders, ancestors, and the clan
* Individual subsumed in group
* Preserves sacred objects, places, events, and memories
* Observes rites of passage, seasonal cycles, and tribal customs

BEIGE Instinctive/Survivalistic MEME - starting 100,000 years ago
Basic theme: Do what you must just to stay alive

* Uses instincts and habits just to survive
* Distinct self is barely awakened or sustained
* Food, water, warmth, sex, and safety have priority
* Forms into survival bands to perpetuate life
* Lives "off the land" much as other animals

Last edited: Sunday, April 30, 2006 at 8:46:34 PM

Huge.... You seem uncharacteristically opinionated and even a bit closed about this movie.

The fact that a movie IS a re-enactment of an actual event leaves plenty of room for bias and interpretation. But I have not heard a singe negative review of this movie. Not from family members who lost loved ones on 93, or from critics. As a matter of fact, I was surprised to hear that the movie even tries to show respect for the perspective and beliefs of the bastards that hijacked the plane.

Anyway, I will hold my opinion about this movie until I see it.

I am curious to see if they show exactly what the passengers went through in the final moments. I saw a show on the discovery channel that went step by step through the last few minutes of 93, comparing the audio recordings to the black box telemetry on flight 93. Those poor people had a rough ride. The "pilot" did everything he could to stop the passengers from getting into the cockpit, it must have been like a horrible roller coaster ride.... Then at the very end, he flipped the plane upside-down to head it nose down into the ground. The plane hit nose down, upside down. It must have been a terrible, terrible experience. It was horrifying even seeing the Nasa flight simulator play back the telemetry from 93. Just seeing the simulators view from the cockpit window gives me chills.

Last edited: Monday, May 01, 2006 at 1:07:25 PM

^ Perhaps, but frankly the whole 'heroic mindset' and 'hero-making' scripts scenarios are typical Hollywood material. I'm not even gonna make a list of the movies where a normal hot-dog eater becomes a hero that saves the world from impeding doom. Like, it's so irrelevant from every day life. You see those 'epic' and 'heroic' movies, be it Bruce Lee or Alexander the Great (or The Bourne Supremacy for that matter), you come out of them with a puffed chest and a 'feel-good' feeling of invincibility. You go home, wake up the next day, and everything is back to the routine, to the matrix.

Typically the plane is saved in extremis by a normal guy (maybe a plumber) who lands out properly. The twist in United 93 is that the plane crashes. So it's a neat mix of heroism / anti-heroism.

Once again I'm talking cinema here.

Hugo!!! WWWWwwwhatup my friend? Me thinks someone didn't have their Canadian Wheaties this morning.

You said that you have not even seen this film yet? I hope Flight 93 does not try to inflate the heroism, or bias the details of the story.... But again, I will wait until after I have seen it before I pass judgement. (hint hint... Nudge nudge :-)

Very little compulsion to see the movie here.
To revisit such a horrific event smacks of a kind of morbid voyeurism to me.
I just dont have any interest in going there.
Also I'm rather suspicious of the event being recreated with a "chest puffing" patriotic twist to it.
For some it will be an important way to process and work through that tragic event.
For many, I suspect, it will be a case of Hollywood sponsored rubbernecking.

Hey Baba...
I don't mean to sound like I am defending the movie because (as I have now said many times) I still have not even seen it.... But...

I don't think this statement is on the mark. You could make the same kind of generalization about any movie. Did you see Tora Tora Tora? (how about Pearl Harbor?).... Any WWII movies? How about any movies about the crucifixion of Christ? Do you watch the History Channel? Every see any movies about Viet Nam? Flight 93 doesn't hold a candle to what happened to the Jews in WWII... Did you see Schindlers List? Band of Brothers series? The Piano?

My point is, maybe it is easier to digest atrocities that have occurred with a greater buffer of time... But that doesn't make this movie less valid of a "documentary" experience. I get the impression that this movie is not an inflated hero-film. I hope it isnt. For me, I am curious to know more about what happened in the cockpit... I am also curious to know more about the efforts of the passengers which were recorded by the cockpit microphone and detailed by passengers via cellular.

Some day there will be enough information to make a movie about 9/11. I hope it is an honest documentary and a graphic time capsule so that the next generation has a reminder of what our generation had to face.

I think all americans should see it and not forget...

Before you forget the past, you'd be well advised to understand the present.

I LOVE presents.