It seems that most of the time I join a game lately, whether it is indie or TS, there are so many laggy players that the whole game is a sham.
It's a far cry from a skillful fun competition against friend or foe. It's more like a surreal-multi-dimational-lag-fest! With teloporting players and a gigantic range on tank movement, fire rate, object collision and scrum transfer. It's about as fun as driving a Mustang GT on a one lane highway stuck behind a bunch of mopeds.

I don't care what anybody says, but, players with 56k dial-up and outdated systems effect the server and all the other players on the server.

In general, the present situation of online gaming has begun to concern me. Basically, 56k dial-up is dragging the whole damn thing down.
I just can't accept that ThinkTanks and other online games like Halo were meant to or should have 56k dial-up players. A standard cable connection is 3,000 kbps down and 400 kbps up vs 56 kbps, that's a 54x & 8x difference and DSL can be even higher.

The few players with 56k dial-up and outdated systems are not worth the reduction of the online gaming experience for everybody.

Economically speaking, I believe that by having the minimum requirements be as low as they are, ultimately degrades the quality of the online gaming experience as a whole. Thus reducing sales and popularity because the new players will perceive the gaming as laggy and not worth the money. For example, I have to say that I was considering buying Halo 2, because the online game Demo is pretty fun, but... It's way to friggen laggy and I'm not sure it's worth the 30 clams. Now, unlike other online capable games like Halo, Think Tanks does not have that strong of a solo mode gaming experience. Personally,I have not played solo mode in TT since the first week I bought it— almost 3 years ago.

So the major selling point of ThinkTanks is the "potentially awesome" online gaming experience and the interactive chat. But if the online gaming experience is consistently so laggy that the game is unplayable, then why bother to play? Well, because it's potentially awesome and is actually degraded by only a few individuals. Those with 56k dial-up and outdated systems. This is not really their fault, because the game lets them join the servers and installs on their computer.

The minimum requirements are a crock... And are not based on online gaming.

I wonder how any people play online with a computer that is at or near those minimum requirement and I wonder how many are several multiples of that minimum. That is quite the range and if you ask me I strongly believe that this range effects the quality of the online gaming experience.

MY COMPUTER SHOULD WORK FINE, COMPARED TO THE AVERAGE COMPUTER
My Computer specs:
PowerBook G4 15" 1.5 GHz (5x over minimum)
1024 DDR SDRAM (16x over minimum)
ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 128 MB VRAM (8x over minimum)
Cable Modem: 2000-4000 kbps down, 300-500 kbps up (36x-71x & 5x-9x over minimum)

New Computer specs:
(After looking at the specs for new G5 I found that it s impossible to calculate a comparison with the minimum requirements)
I mean, how can you compare 300 MHz PowerPC G3 with 2.5GHz Quad-core PowerPC G5, its like 33x numerically not even taking into account the 1.25GHz frontside bus per processor.

-

...Anyhow the argument I am making is that the minimum requirements for playing ThinkTanks are not the minimum requirements for playing ThinkTanks online.

By no coincidence, my online gaming experience seems to have as much a range as those specs.

It would seem to me that playing Think Tanks online has everything to do with the computers and connection of all players on the server.
Skill, as we all should know by now, is filtered through those variables and, more importantly, so is the fun factor of the game.

What I fear the most though, is that 56k dial-up players and players with outdated systems with continue to plague the online games and will continue to diminish the quality of the online gaming experience for everybody. Especially for people like me who seem to be more effected by bogged down servers.
Maybe it's because my computer can't compensate or maybe I am more sensitive to GIGANTIC changes in game play depending who is on the server or that some of you really are hacking the game, I don't know. All I know is that the addiction is fading and becoming more of a recurring dream that just makes me depressed. So much potential for fun, but I guess technology is just not ready yet.

Optimistically speaking, perhaps we are just around the corner from that technology and enforcing more realistic minimum requirements and filters for online gaming. Maybe there could be segregated servers based on ping and frame rate. There should be minimum requirements for the online game anyhow.

But for now, the frustration of bizarre and freaky game play due to the over abundance of laggy players will continue to drive away noobs and veteran alike.

It is my strong opinion that if people with 56k dial-up and outdated systems want to play online games then they need to step up and join the 21st century and not force the rest of us, WHO HAVE, to suffer.... Or worse... NOT PLAY.

Ban high ping players! Force them to upgrade. If they want to use the technology then they should have to have the technology.

I paid for this computer!
I paid for this connection!
I paid for this game!
... And GDI I should be able to enjoy playing it.

If I can't then why should I continue playing if It just gives me a headache?

Hopefully this can be address by bravetree / garage games in the next version.

Till then I'll pop in to see if a server is playable.

MAX

Last edited: Friday, March 03, 2006 at 11:01:20 AM

I understand the sentiment, but I can't bring myself to do a lagger cutoff script. I played on medal of honor with my son a few days
ago and there were about 2700 servers and about 100 of those were under under 70ms ping for me. I think if we had a lot more servers and players I'd be willing to consider it.

Its annoying to have such a high lag but if you are considering to make a limit we would loose so many good players. Its the community that counts.

.................... %)

You know what people... Never mind!

For the last ******* time!! I don't ******* have lag!

Clearly nobody seems to understand what I am talking about!

I have explained these two concepts several times and in many different ways but still only a few seem to want to listen to reason.
1. The minimum requirements do not reflect online gaming
2. If the number of players with 56k dial-up or exceptionally high pings continues to increase with out bounds, then I fear for the future of this game.

@ JediRieb - I play as an alias and I play almost everyday and I have played you many many times (tried anyhow) but you usually lag me off the server. I guess you don't know this but I have been playing this game for a long time and I am very familier/experienced with lag. It pains me to even have to read your suggestion that I might have lag because of open apps. I find the assumption offensive and completely missing the point.

I don't have lag or at least I should not have lag, that was the entire point of this thread. I have stated my specs in comparison to the minimum requirements. My games should run as smooth as silk considering the how many more times over requirements my system is, and it does most of the time, except, when there are players with 56k dail-up/high pings/lag or whatever you want to call it, on the server.

I appreciate your willingness to bail if the lag gets bad more 2 or more players. But I guess this was all a waste of time because all people seem to see here is a some noob complaining about their lag.

Clearly I am alone in this apparently bizarre situation were other peoples lag only effects my game.

Oh well I tried.

MAX

Good. I didn't like the title of this thread.

^ Couldnt rest until you had proof, could ya? Does it make you feel better now that it's out in the open with proof that I have lag, even though I already said that I do ? XO

In my own defense: 1. That server was not Roo's or dash's or any of the servers I regularly play in. 2. I didn't exactly hear anyone complaining about the lag, so it evidently wasn't effecting anyone (and don't bother posting later that it was, because I told you in my last post to say something if it was. You didn't, clearly stating that it wasn't effecting you.).

Remember this? Hmm, I wonder about that...sure seems like the attack is all on me, even though there have been several players stating against these accusations on my part. ( 1 player (you) vs several (those that have posted saying that most of the time my seemingly high ping is not an issue). Now, who is probably right here?)

Last edited: Sunday, March 05, 2006 at 8:57:31 PM

Ah ez now fellas...
the issue of lag and improving the game is a valid one but
it seems that its a hot button issue. People get offended?!
I mean no one wants to be the last guy picked in a in game
and no one wants to be accused of being an anchor either
But please dont take this so personal

Part of the unique aspect of this community is the willingness of
everyone to improve the game and keep it relevant (<---50 cent word of the day)
And a large part of the game to me is the people.
How freakin' boring would it be if there were no diversity?

Now part of the lag issue is the way the game itself is built
After all the largest % of ppl on the internet was and prob still is dialup
AND part of lag is subjective to distance from the master server and the integrity
of the hardware between you and them. Besides total network traffic volume, etc etc

Granted I have left more servers than I can count, (including mine) when lag becomes excessive.
Most days I factor it into my game play. Like playing football on a windy day but sometimes.....
Like, I left dashs just the other day and dashs is usually excellant for me
But hey! There were 12 ppl in game and I pumped 2 clips into Stan with absolutely no effect

Did I curse --- ya
Did I pound on my keyboard --- ya
Did I leave with a lag excuse -- ya - and in retrospect it sounded lame
Did I go to another server and play a more satisfying game --- YA !!!

Lag is like having a tagalong younger sib for the day, just deal with it

Hmmm, reminds me of an ole Roger Miller tune
Heres one verse
"You can't go swimmin' with a kid on our back, but you can be happy if you've a mind to
All ya gotta do is knuckle down, buckle down. Do it! Do it! Do it!

@ JediRieb - You posted false information and you called me a lier in my own thread! What do you expect?

Your becoming of focus in this thread is your own doing.
I do not want to argue with you whether or not you lag a little or alot. YOU turned this thread into a JediRieb defense.

You said you only have a ping of 190.
I disagreed and complained that your ping is 300-400 and forces me off of servers. The exact issue that this thread was about.

You called me a lier and told me to prove that you have a 300-400 ping.
So I have.

Now your telling me that it is just because of that server?
Again you are calling me a lier even after I contradicted you, the very next time I went online to play.

I have to say it was not hard either. All I did was go online to play a game or two and found a server with some players. I joined and upon spawning I found it laggy. So I looked over at the names, and lo and behold their was your name. So I pinged you to see if in fact I was wrong about your ping... But there it was, a 323 ping. So, I took a screany and posted it. It all happened in about 2 minutes.

I only bothered because of your insistence that I LIED about your 300-400 pings and that there is even a problem.

I realize that you had offered to bail if the lag got to bad and more that one player complained. That's fine and respectable. But, you are still deflecting that fact that I say your lag effects the server and just because not everybody is effected that it's ok. This contradict the first. I'm not sure why you are doing this, maybe it's to rationalize all the times the server was bogged down it the past and you did not leave.

The reason you may not here people complain about laggy servers is the exact reason that I am getting so much sh*t for this thread.

Again, I'm not attacking you per-se. You just keep arguing with me about whether or not you lag little or alot and whether it effects the server for other players. Even though you have agreed to leave if enough people complain you still argue whether I am justified for my complaint.

There is a problem that there are too many new players with 56k dial-up and I believe that you are a part of that problem.

If you are truly sorry that it can't be helped because your parents can't justify spending $40 -$45 a month for you to play online games. Then why are you arguing with me about this. If you know that having 56k dial-up sucks and and is to slow, and therefore should not be used for online games, then why are you defending it.

I can't stop you from forcing your way into online games, even though it is a well know fact that 56k dial-up connection cause lag, but... I can complain about it.
Especially if I honestly am concerned that the overall quality of this game is declining due to a general increase of players with 56k dial-up forcing themselves into online games. High graphic online games were not made for 56k dial-up.

-

@ roo -
A little lag is one thing, but what about servers with disabling lag, so that you can't even play on it.

How many times will I/we/you have to go from server to server to find a playable game because they are all too laggy to play on?

At what point do I/we/you just hit "Quit" because all the server are all too laggy to play on?

At what point does a Demo also think, "too laggy"?

-

I will cope with it because I am addicted like the rest of you, but the game sessions get shorter and shorted and I play less and less.

MAX

He's not defending 56k dialup, he's defending his right to play in a major server! He just doesn't want people flaming him for having 56k, especially when he can't change it! Jedirieb is defending the people you are unfairly yelling at.

And...Demos think?? (no offense to the more intelligent demos, I'm just generalizing :P)

I'm not willing to find the quote right now, but it goes something like this:

Well If someone wants a server that excludes laggers they should write the cutoff script and do it. I won't be joining that crew but I'm not opposed to people doing as they will with their own servers.

Max I share your feelings immensly but many of the laggards are people with good computers and good connections. They either

A. Live outside north america
B. Have malware on their system
C. Think they can leave open a file sharing program and play

Particularly the people from europe bother me. Lots of cool TTers live there and id never want to ban them from a server.

I think a good solution would be to play a game with a REAL network engine. I cant help but think that a game engine that cost 100 bucks is gonna be half-assed compared to the gazillion dollar engines.

B

I do have a ping of 190-200 on the majority of the servers I normally play on. And nowhere did I say you were lying, because I freely admitted my lag problem. The reason I am bringing it into focus on a "Jedirieb defense" is because there are many more players out there with my same problem. Now, why do I keep continueing posting: because I am not gonna give in in the slightest to someone who is gonna try to get rid of high pingers. Now, I realize that people that are so bent on this kind of seperation will not be changed from their ultimately futile path, because they cannot see that, despite people trying to work with him to control this, even offering to leave a server if others reported the lag, you would remain stubbornly bent on this which is not obtainable in this day and age. Therefore, this will be my last post (except maybe to edit this post later to include a screenshot with low ping number). Do not expect me to respond to any post of yours here, Max, as it will not happen as of now.

Just for the record I second dash
I will NOT be excluding anyone from my servers based on ping
League games are different but general servers are OPEN
I do and will take the time to educate and encourage
Last week I suggested to a 300+ pinger that he consider
NetZero because Jedireib uses it and plays just fine in ScruMODz

>all posters here have valid points but exclusion is not a reasonable option<

Ok fine, whatever, discussion closed.

The increase of 56k dial-up players is good for the game because it actually brings more people and not just more lag, and this makes the game more fun and I am a jerk for worrying about it.

The minimum requirements are fine, so I will be booting up my blueberry 250 MHz iMac with 64 MB RAM and 56k dial-up to improve my online game. Because apparently my present system, 1.5GHz G4 with 1024 MB RAM and cable connection, is clearly the problem and not other 56k dial-up players.

Sorry to all. I was being selfish by thinking that this game was for my personal enjoyment when really it's about the enjoyment of people who can't actually afford to play the game.

Enjoy the game, since I can't!

Max

I propose the late-night <100p elitist-snob team scrum server :).
I will be the first one to sign up, less maxi and I, hustling and bustling, get our asses jammed in the door frame.

< late-night team scrum server? Check
< 100P? Check.
< elitist-snob? Check

I can get on board with that!

It's weird how a high ping/lag player can affect you Maxie. When Jedirieb (SA) enters I usually just see him herk-jerk bounce all over. Sometimes I gotta bug out too as my video gets to borked.

I'm not picking on you J, and I don't think I've called you a cull in the game or anything.

I sometimes get that shortly after Rx enters a game too. But I don't know if it is him or someone else who follows closely behind, or was right before him. I suspect someone else on his heels... Na, easier to blame Rx :)

Are we all cool here? I hope we didnt make an enemy because of this thread.