While traveling home from our family vacation, my son and I stopped in at a familiar gas station and hit the restroom. While taking care of business, he asked about a product dispenser hanging on the wall. Basically, I told him he didn't need to know about that sort of thing right now. Of course, he was very persistant and even tried to read the copy, but being a 2nd grader this Fall, he wasn't having a lot of luck with words like "studded" and "ribbed". We had beed there several times before, but this is the first time he asked me about the dispenser.

It kinda bothered me.

Not that he was curious, but that I would have to face that topic on someone else's terms and not when I thought my son was ready and needed to know. I guess that's the way it is with a lot of things in our culture today. Childhood innocense and being carefree in slipping away and we sit back and wish for the "good old days", yet do nothing to protect them. There doesn't seem to be the regard for children's innocense that we once had and I think it reflects a change in our culture. Is this really the culture we want?

Just another example of what Rabban is talking about :

Back in my days if you stepped out of line as a child, your parents would put you back in line ! With no questions asked by any other people that were around, in fact they might of even given pointers ! Now a days kids are so far out line its not even funny ! God forbid you even try to put them back in line cause you'll get this from the child now days," Your not my real father or mother !" or you will hear this,"I call the cops you touch me !"

Now I am not saying beat your chil but there is nothing wrong with 1 or 2 good smacks (on the butt) once in a while !

Yes I have to admit Rabban I don't like where our culture is going ! :(

Yech. What a nice place for you and your boy to start that conversation. I have a daughter starting 2nd grade this fall, and I'm bothered too. In fact, this is one of my pet peeves about today's culture. If it isn't the dispenser in the gas station, it's fashion.

My daughter is a fan of some of the kid shows like "Kim Possible" and Polly Pocket and Barbie dolls. A lot of the stuff she sees is fine, and even positive. However, the clothes... What are stores thinking? Do seven year old girls need to wear tight skirts that ride real low on the hips? Is the goal to see who can get girls to look slutty as early as possible? We won't buy that stuff, and have to go to stores 100 miles from here or order online to get clothes that aren't too sexy looking.

I worry that everything that is intended to be fashionable and alluring for young women gets pushed down to the age of little girls. It seems kinda sick. Are pedophiles running the clothing business?

Is that what we want?

I don't think our culture is changing all that much to be honest. I think what is changing is the amount that you now have access to.

What I mean is that 25 or 30 years ago we had no clue what the neighbor did. We had no idea of some of the seedy things happening in a state, or several states away. Now with television, Internet and satellite, we hear about everything.

You never heard about all of the abuse in the churches until recently did you? But that has been going on forever, and I just don't mean in the church. There has been strange evil behavior since the beginning of time. But on that note, how protected, or sheltered were those kids who were good church going people? Thought to be safe but they weren't.

I think it's a matter of relationship between you and your children. Parents need to be comfortable and intimate with their kids. There need to be some sort of balance of parent and friend with your children. The children need to know that mom or dad will be stern about certain things, and they will be punished. But the children also need to be comfortable and know we are their friends, that they can confide in us and we can educate them on their curiosities.

Personally, I'm a emotional person. That means I love my kids like crazy, but I also get mad just the same.
I have not had to spank my children as of yet, but I know the day will be come. It's very difficult to teach your children that hitting is wrong and then employ that same manner to discipline them.

In short I think my father did a good job with me and I want to do the same. I just want to be aware of what I'm doing and know when not to go too far. I want to keep the good relationship while also keeps my kids safe.

I'll do what's necessary. Even if it hurts me in some way.

Very well put Napalm :)

Well, I agree that we've always been depraved as a people and that we're always able to do terrible things to one another, but it seems to be becoming more "popular" and open. For example, there's something in particular President Clinton is known for. This is something that folks have done for centuries, but back in the 80's (my high school years) in wasn't so pervasive. I remember some vague movie references, but don't remember it being a part of pop culture as it is now. Now I read about elementary kids doing it in class and on the school bus. You hear about it all the time. So yeah, what once used to be private is now public. I think some things need to return to being private again and let our kids be kids again.

Yes well put!

I have nothing to say as I am an only child, not the parent of the only child.

It's even come down to the nightly news broadcast. I used to like to watch the news but now in every episode there's some event that just shouldn't be shown to children. Typically an ubduction, or murder. So to shield my kids I record the news and watch it at a later time.
Too much is in the main stream, I agree it should be pulled back a couple of notches.

Well said, Napalm.

My big concern is the lack of leadership coming from parents and the community. Many parents don't really do much to try to make sure the things their kids get are appropriate. I also am not sure I want to see us go back to everything being a big secret. (Secrecy is the ally of abusers.)

At the same time, I can't believe what crap kids are exposed to. We seem to be in a real lurid pop culture right now. Contrast "racy" lyrics from the 70s (Afternoon Delight is an example) with what is out there today, and there is a real difference. Today's stuff is so in your face. I think we are exposed to whatever appeals, whatever can be shocking or overly sensual. The problem with that is you get numbed and need more to get a thrill. We go from hand-holding to "friends with benefits".

I see the key as open discussion. Anything is a fair discussion topic in our family. We want to do all we can to keep dialog alive and well. We are trying to show the next generation what is good and wise, and want to pass that on. My opinion is it takes intimate discussion and good use of the time you have with kids. It's not easy, and it takes time. Adults have to work too much to make a living, get lazy, and don't put in the energy it takes.

I'm even willing to stop playing TT to know my kid. She trusts us, and I want that to always be there. I want to be able to give advice when she needs it, and I also want to be confident that she knows what would be wise for her life, too. I don't want her to be acting like she's 18 by the time she's 11. There are too many responsibilities that go with being adult. Let the kids stay kids, like Rabban said

As a homeschooler, I have not been exposed to this crap pop culture stuff that is in the school system and out in the world today. However, my grandfather, who lives with us, has Fox Newz cranked on his 30" TV almost all day long, therefore I hear this and the like every 2 hours:

I'm thinking now, violence has been put into our culture aswell, you see all those popular shooting games? Halo ect? Little kids play them too now. And kids have been sneaking into R rated movies for quite awhile now, and now they can go down to any local Blockbuster and get their parents to rent it for them.

Now I am talking from the view as a kid, not the parent, this is what I think of this!

"There's porn in my violence!?" %)

Last edited: Friday, July 29, 2005 at 5:14:13 PM

Wow. I killed this thread.

No, racer. Good point.
violence in the media is at least as much a part of this societies issues as sexual inuendoes.
seeing thousands of deaths on TV [real and fictitious] by the time a child reaches maturity definitely has some affect on adulthood.

Racer, it all goes together. Earlier I said

I could just as easily add that it went from "West Side Story" to Grand Theft Auto. The former was a gang story with knifes and (the worst) a gun (one- not more). The latter is a bloodbath game that comes from a company that will do anything and sell anything for a buck.

Five days ago when my friend was babysitting a little girl, she aksed what if he wanted to have sex... This was a very strange question for a girl of 4... So he asked her where she learned that, and she showed him a porn sight that was in her parents bookmarks. The mom didn't seem to care too much though. That is just horrible. On return, he found a dildo in the little girls bed yesterday. He showed this to the mom, and she let the daughter keep it. I do not think he am ever going back to that house... Ever. The point is, the word "innocent" is starting not to apply to anyone, even those who are most preciouse to us. I undersand that sexual desires are of the srongest in human nature, but this is horrible! My dad and I came up w/ this theory a couple days ago.

I feel that this is true on several respects.

Just after posting this I went to lunch. In the company cafeteria we broadcast a new station (Because we own that too) (Freak`in monster company) As the group was having lunch all I could do was notice the reports coming form the television set.

So and so was killed today....
A man was gunned down last night......
A man pleads guilty for the murder of an infant last Tuesday.....
Last night a woman was run down by a minivan, the minivan did not stop.......

What the hell? How about some good news! This is NOON, I don't want this kind of crap for lunch. Quite disappointing.

Yes, but seeing "5 fuzzy puppies were born today" is not very shocking to people, and shocking, sells when you are the media. My grandfather says about the news situation:

What the hell? That's not good news!

@PGG,
Wow. I'd have called the police.

@LGM,
Yes, very true, anything that sells will be popular.

Last edited: Friday, July 29, 2005 at 9:56:16 PM

Tie the childs behavior to the privileges they are granted and explain that's what you are doing at every appropriate opportunity. Afterall, isn't that how life works for adults too?

My mother side-stepped the question about the napkins that came with special bags for disposal. I see fewer condom machines now than when I was young.

I saw a TV show about the psychology of sex that explained that red lipstick is meant to emulate another part of the female body and that clevage is supposed to remind guys of the rear view of a woman bent over. These two things on young girls and old women give me the creeps.

You guys ever been to Europe? The children there don't seem to be harmed by knowlege of the body and the role of sex. Give explanations that are age appropriate.

[Edit] I refuse to watch the evening broadcast news. Too many negative waves, man.

Last edited: Friday, July 29, 2005 at 10:14:10 PM

INDEED. I remember back when I was 4 years old, my dad rented 'Four Weddings and a Funeral' and let me watch. After the first 30 seconds, there were so many of the words, I had to ask... "Dad, what does - - - - mean?" He said that it was a very bad word and if I ever said it, he would punish me. That sure worked, 'cause I haven't said it since.

@PGG, I'd recommend a call to child protective services on that one. Sick. Really sick. I agree with your statement about humans. We do sick things now, just like they did waaaay back then.

@BC- right on. Appropriate priviledges for the kid's age, with more responsibilities coming as more priviledges are added. Giving kids the car keys so they can go to the mall is nuts if the kid is 6. So is what PGG described. Giving kids age appropriate answers about sex, drugs, pedophiles, and whatever else is a parent's job. I wish mom and dad would do that so I wouldn't have to teach 11 year olds about "Human Growth and Reproduction" in 5th grade. I get that fun every year, but at least I know they get good info that way.

I forgot that part... My friend did call the police, but they took the "toys" away and hid them, and as far as they knew, the kid wasn't looking at anything. I think they are planning t move away now... Saw the ad for thier house in the paper. I personally decided to drop it. I had to live next to these kinda people for SIX years!!! In that time, from when I was four to ten, I learned every single swearword. Also, the oldest son (one year under my sister) described one of his parents sex sessions to her in excrucuating detail, and I had one of the most tramatic experiences in my life. We had to call the cops on them one night when the husband was yelling at the wife "I am going to *ing kill you *" and when the cops got there, thay said they where just having a tickle fight... Hell for six years.

@all

I remember a line from "Interview with a Vampire" by Anne Rice, the book not the movie. It kinda puts things in perspective. In the book Louise a newly made vampire is talking about how the way he sees the world is that it is getting more and more evil. Then I believe it was Lestat that tells him how in fact life has never been so precious than in present times. He tells Louise about how back in the old days vampires could just leave dead bodies anywhere because finding a dead body in an ally was a daily occurance. He talks about how now, vampires have to hide their kill as to not attract too much attention. When a person goes missing or is killed today people don't just pretend it didn't happen.

The world isn't getting worse. It's getting better every day. Just 15 to 20 years ago you wouldn't hear about all these kids that go missing. There were probably 100 times as many kids that went missing in the old days. There were also more husbands killing their wives, and so on and so forth. Things like this just don't happen like they used to because now we pay so much attention to them. Now when a kid goes missing anywhere in the U.S. We hear about it. The media coverage may make it appear as if it occurs more often but in fact these things are very rare.

It's good to be aware and to take a stand about the bad things that happen but don't let it get you down. The world is a much better place to live and it's getting better all the time as far as that sort of thing goes. Now what's going on government wise well that's a different story.

On the subject of the condom machine in the bathroom, they had these 30 years ago when I was a kid only they had nude pictures of women on the machines. No bull. Things are better.

@PGG,

Don't worry. I knew them all when I was in kindergarten. The kids were all saying the F-bomb and the various others (All 60 are on my WordFilter script) in the bus and the driver would go back and smack them in the face. Yet the kids would keep doing it. Because they knew it would piss the bus driver off. Oh, and they would sneak in pictures of the finger in their backpacks and pin them on the doorways.

@BC,
I agree.

@LGM,

So true. Parent's should be doing that.

I see This eveyday at my school. My school its not safe to even look at poeple or they will beat you UP! :'( I got in a few fights befor but I was defending my self. While talking to princeable the other guy said I started it frist. It shows you that u cant even look at anyone with out volice comeing out. And don't forgot These kids are our future. :S

@ JetJaguar- good point. I'm pretty sure all that stuff used to be hidden away, and wasn't reported out of concern for shocking people. We get so overwhelmed with the amount of stuff we hear about, and it tends to make people believe there's a nasty bad guy everywhere you go. Thankfully there are tons of decent people too. By far the majority know how to behave.

I saw the condom machines you mentioned in the 70's- and you're right. I saw them when we went on trips in the summer.

I don't know if things are getting better or worse for sure, but I hear more bad stuff thanks to the media. I have a suspicion people today are as bad as ever, and as good as ever. I hope to see more good. It seems that more and more lurid and suggestive stuff is in the media than ever before though, and I'm concerned about that.

Five fuzzy puppies? :)

I agree with napalm about the culture changing. If I'm correct, the good old days for most of you (not me, I never had any good old days) was the 70's and 80's. During that time it was the same as now (but a good amount better than today) They still had fights, robberies, and other adult contents that I don't want to talk about. Here some things that Unicef has to say about children:

Children have the right from being neglected

Children have the right from sexual abuse

Children have the right to learn about their culture

And of course, children have the right to a loving family.

For more information visit the Unicef Website

:)

There are a few questions that proud gamming's story brings up that ties into Ancient's comments.

A 4yo asking to have sex doesn't mean she understands what she's asking. The same is true for the toy found in her bed. For all we know, she was using it as a baton or a spaceship (rather than its designed use). Sure, the parents need to be more concerned about what they're exposing their child to, but it doesn't automatically mean the worst is happening.

PGG also refered to 4000 years of evolution. To me, this is a very interesting idea to being up within a discussion concerning morality since all morals and taboos would then be a creation of people, environment and culture. It always strikes me as odd when the two are discussed together.

And back to A1's comments, Unicef has written some nice ideas, but are they really rights, where did they come from and who enforces them if we all evolved?

I tend to agree with the idea that immorality is more open than it once was and that may be why it seems things are worse, but I think more people are participating and non-participants aren't as bothered by things as they once were (or they don't feel free or compeled to say anything). Overall I think that has a negative impact on the culture as well. However, we start getting into an area where what we determine to be right and wrong are open to discussion and interpretation as well. For example, some people have no problem at all wearing sexually suggestive or violent T-shirts. Gays and lesbians are "out". Divorce is very common. Folks are putting ideas in front of my son that I'd rather not have there, but since we are an open society and free speech is a guiding principle, its out there. I think personal rights are sometimes being considered above the collective good of the group. I think its important to strike the proper balance.

Fact: Not every other single human on Planet Earth has the same values as you do.

Fact: Something that is immoral to you, is moral to someone else.

I agree, todays culture is screwing yours over.

No, socieity isn't showing your son condoms, or Brittany Spears videos, you are. It seems as though you have a pretty bright idea as to what is going on in todays immoral culture. So why do you continue to risk your sons senses with immorality? If you don't want your kid vulnerable to any of todays immorality, then make him sit in a house all day until he reaches the age of 18.
It's yourself you need to blame, not the rest of socieity.

Gah, give your kid something to think about. Let him fill his curiosity, let him decide what's right and what's wrong. Honestly, if I was a father, and my son thought shooting-up on heroin was the right thing to do, I'd let him do it. My son should have every right to make his own conclusive ideas as to what is personally right, or wrong. What would be the point in telling my son the only way to be healthy and successful, was for him to get a four year degree, and subsequently work 9-5 for the rest of his life? Why is that "better", because he'll have money? Because he'll have a nice house? Because it's right? Because he knows you'll be happy for him ? Why would I forcefully make him live a lifestyle that he doesn't agree with? Because I , want him to.

If you're lucky, he will do what you think is right. Why? Beceause if he doesn't, he'll be a failure and dissapointment to the rest of his family. Then, when his hair has grown gray, he'll realize his life was nothing more then a cameo role.

Last edited: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 at 9:43:19 AM

I believe it would be morally right to give the illustrious apple(ILLIGIATE)<-------- a swift kick in the pants.

OK, that's my initial reaction, but I've had a breather. It would seem from your post that your folks aren't giving you the love and support you need and I'm sorry for that, but try not to take it out on me. One day as a parent you may realize how silly some of your suggestions were since I know its my duty to raise my son and guide him to make the best decisions possible. Its also very important to give him a foundation of morality to base those decisions upon. In your make-believe world, actions don't really have consequences and there is no basis for right and wrong (I don't think you really believe this, but its the teen-anger phase you're in). You need to think through things before you post them. For one thing, the heroin illustration was perhaps the worst one you could have chosen. Months ago I shared that a dear friend of mine died from a heroin overdose, so I know the personal pain that choice brought upon his family, parents and friends. I know it is my duty to do everything I can to prevent my son from making the same, wrong choice.

Last edited: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 at 1:46:17 PM

I have to beleve apple in some points because...

I sit at home all day being my geeky self.

Heh, this actually reminds me of a (long) post that will.i.am from the Black Eyed Peas made on blackeyedpeas.com. He was ranting that even though we have religion, and it's supposed to be a good thing, some people are founding feuds and wars on religion, and that the world has just gotten worse and exposed kids to bad stuff. I completely agree. And I'll put one in for the record industry:

I went to a few music stores yesterday, and more than half had that label on them. Disgusting. I was watching an elementary talent show and these grade 1 kids, like 5 years old, come and do a dance to the ALBUM version of Candy Shop by 50 Cent. Their parents BUY them these CDs. It's people in the media industry that think that explicit stuff will draw the most attention. Yeah, Right. The problem is, you'll be drawing attention, but you may be drawing attention from the wrong audience. They also show shows that have a XXX rating on it during the daytime, allowing ANYONE to watch it!!

Just my 2c.

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/8453

Unfortunately, that kind of thing happens everyday.

I have to admit... There is some funny stuff out there, but more warnings have to be put up, and people should be caeful where they put things (in our college mens bathrooms, all the yournols have written in the botom "the power to stop rape in in your hands." I find that slightly unnerving, yet quite true). But as I said, when u get older, some things are funnier... Take dilbert, or sinfest. Each of these are very different, but each one apeals more towards an adult aduience. Samples below with proper Warnings

DANGER DANGER! If you or anyone in the room is under 13, please be curtiouse and do not click on the links below!
Thank you for ur coopertion

PG-13
^{for in-apropriate hintings
and advanced humor}

SinFest!
Todays Dilbert

Last edited: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 at 4:02:14 AM

The 2nd one was fine but the 1st one was just plain creepy. Or in other words, sexy. XD