Ever notice that almost all of the topics here concern some TTer from a Blue state (usually the Left coast) lamenting that the hicks and rubes from the Red states are too stupid and/or greedy to understand the wisdom of their Leftist politics: an America of confiscatory taxes, gay marriage, abortion on demand, Godlessness and government, government, government? I have. But I am still a conservative. Any other conservatives willing to come out or do you fear that the Liberal establishment here may send you off to a Maoist reeducation camp in Seattle run by Michael Moore, Ted Kennedy and Hillary Clinton?

"...hicks and rubes from the Red states are too stupid and/or greedy to understand the wisdom of their Leftist politics..."
that isn't what I want you to understand...i just want you to understand how class works in america. Class struggles are historical fact, not politics.

I want you understand your position in a class society...so you will understand that our true struggles aren't "cultural". We don't need to be going at each other. We need to protect our own economic interests. And we, by and large, share the same economic interests. The bush administration's every policy has been primarily aimed at improving conditions for the "ownership" society. Every move benefits the rich, at the expense of the working class, lower middle class, and the poor. This isn't republicans vs democrats...this is big business vs progressives.

If you guys don't get on board soon, their won't be a middle class. Don't you see that?

These guys don't give a damn about your values. They just wnat your votes...time to look past their rhetoric and look at their actions. No?

They want you to believe that some "liberal" elite is attacking your cultural heritage. It isn't happening. You are not under attack from the left. However, we are all under constant seige of Big Business. Always protecting its bottom line.

Amen memphis. Its all smoke and mirrors. They say they build up the mexican economy...and I'm sure they have to some degree...but upper management positions, where a good deal of high salary jobs go to americans. What they get is crappy wages, unregulated working conditions, child labor, and environmental damgage. Some kick backs to corrupt locals, and everyone is all smiles.

Meanwhile, americans are shuffling their feet, wondering where all the production jobs have gone. Reading about the myth of "the information society." americans would really be pissed if they couldn't buy cheap crap on credit at Walmart...but given a few creature comforts...they remain docile.

Well what about reforming social security, stink? That provides no benefit to big corporations. Fact is, if we keep paying the same benefits without fixing this system, you and I and Chong and Tanty will not get the benefits we've been promised and we've earned. At least on this issue, Bush is looking out for the underdogs.

(bone comes to rest)

LOL! For more about why that dog don't hunt 44, consult flea's "thanks republicans" thread. The fact is, the republicans have been after SS for years. Bush would love to cut his wall street cronies a big slice of the public's pie. Wall street stands to gain billions in management fees...in recent days, bush has admitted that privatization alone isn't the answer...it seems their numbers just don't add up...

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/15/opinion/15krugman.html?hp

So, once again...it comes down to increasing corporate profits at the expense of the rest of us. Its a familiar tune. Embellish this tune with a refrain about religion and values, and that's all there is to modern republicanism...

Bug spray, would somebody get the bug spray...

Go ahead, live in the 40's. Then move ahead to the 50's. Wear penny loafers and grease your hair back. And stop.

Last edited: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 at 10:41:54 AM

^ Closet Conservative

I fear arguing with you has become similar to telling Mike Tyson he's stupid. You could do it. You'd be right if you did. But it ain't worth the beating.

LOL!

How about this?: What's the difference between nose boogers and brocolli?

Kids will at least eat one of them.

I'm going to the new Army forum...pickin your nose...Mike Tyson...mumble mumble mumble

Last edited: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 at 5:10:46 PM

Go ahead, jab him, fo fo

Democratic in-fighting.

Now there'd be some meat, none of the high carb breakfast candy ^^^^^.

Waffling.

Last edited: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 at 8:22:35 PM

The problems with FICA are something even up on your radar, BTW?

44 that's why most of us conservatives are still in the closet. :[ I was in law school in the mid 1980s when the evil Ronald Reagan's name was ever uttered, the class would hiss. Needless to say no one stood in his defense even though somehow he had jsut won a landslide reelection. I guess even Conervatives fear being unpopular.

@Stink

OK, OK...well maybe you've got a point on that social security thing. I mean, I can see how privatizing accounts and letting billions flow into the stock market might benefit corporations. But the Bible says, "Let he who earns an honest wage decide for thyself how to use it" Job 44:44. It just depends how you look at it. And besides, it's a crisis and we got to do something. But I'll concede the social security arguement.

But there are plenty of other good examples of Bush looking out for the less-fortunate ahead of the corporations and the rich. For one, take a look at our stance on Kyoto. If ever there were a perfect example of Bush looking out for the little guy, this is it. According to the U.S. Department of Energy's Energy Information Administration, Kyoto would reduce the real gross domestic product by $400 billion, permanently raise the price of gasoline by 66 cents per gallon, increase the price of electricity by 86% and add $1,740 to the typical household's annual energy bill. Other economic studies are equally disturbing. WEFA, an economic information and consulting firm, reports that 2.4 million jobs would be lost if Kyoto was ratified and manufacturing wages reduced by 2.1%. Because the economy is so energy dependent, Kyoto would also impose a 14.5% tax increase for basic goods. Grocery bills would increase by 9%, medical bills by 11% and housing costs would rise 21% because of an increase in the cost of materials. Minorities would be especially hard-hit. A report commissioned by six African-American and Hispanic organizations, including the
National Black Chamber of Commerce and the U.S. Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, concludes that the treaty would reduce the earnings of black and Hispanic workers by 10% and throw 864,000 blacks and 511,000 Hispanics out of work. You hear that Stink? Bush is looking out for minorities and low-income folk...not the rich and definitely not corporate interests.

You want a piece of me, little man?

--Michael Spinks

Enough meat....call me when the waffles are served up.

@ 44

Wasn't your quote suppossed to reflect "The Book of Fo" from the "Revised Testament"?

@ All (or at least those who haven't left yet)

Speaking of minorities - did anyone notice the NAACP awarded their "Excellence in Media" award to none other than Sean Hannity?

See there folks? 44 is showing you guys how to argue...leave it to a liberal to argue your side better than you can.

Well done, diabolis avocado! Quacamole anyone?

Yep - it's about time 44 came around.......

Ok 44, you made that mess, you fix it!

And chief...where did you see this? "Speaking of minorities - did anyone notice the NAACP awarded their "Excellence in Media" award to none other than Sean Hannity?"

I cant find any reference to this amazing factoid...

The Bush administration has done absolutely no analysis to substantiate its claim that the Kyoto Protocol or domestic policies to reduce carbon dioxide pollution from power plants would seriously harm the U.S. Economy. While industry trade associations have published many misleading claims of economic harm, two comprehensive government analyses have shown that it is possible to reduce greenhouse pollution to levels called for in the Kyoto agreement without harming the U.S. Economy.

In 1998, the White House Council of Economic Advisors concluded that the costs of implementing the Kyoto Protocol would be "modest" -- no more than a few tenths of 1 percent of gross domestic product in 2010, equivalent to adding no more than a month or two to a ten-year forecast for achieving a vastly increased level of wealth in this country. A subsequent and more detailed study by five Department of Energy national laboratories found that policies to promote increases in energy efficiency would allow the United States to make most of the emission reductions required to comply with the Kyoto Protocol through domestic measures that have the potential to improve economic performance over the long run. The only study that President Bush cited in announcing his reversal on CO2 reductions, a report by the Energy Information Administration, failed to consider the inexpensive greenhouse pollution reductions that can be achieved through energy efficiency. The study also ignored the Kyoto Protocol's flexible market mechanisms, which the United States has spent the last three years negotiating with other signatories.

While the Bush administration may assert that previous government cost studies are inaccurate, there is no basis for such a view. The current administration has not conducted its own analysis of the costs of the Kyoto agreement.

@ stinky

I actually heard it on Hannity's show yesterday. I also searched and found no mention of it.

Regarding the Kyoto Treaty - is it true that China signed but isn't obligated to it?

Last edited: Thursday, February 17, 2005 at 5:28:50 PM

As your name might suggest, Chief, you should know all about the obligations of treaties.

I dunno chief, ^ funny.

Wouldn't surprise me though...

The bible says Kyoto will be bad for the economy...so there...smartass.

Last edited: Thursday, February 17, 2005 at 5:26:50 PM

@ Memphis

LOL - I asked for that

Also - regarding the Hannity / NAACP thing - it is absolutely nowhere to be found in Google. But I'm telling you - I heard it on my way to Fed Ex yesterday afternoon.

Surely someone else heard this?

Where's the beef?

Kyoto is based on more junk science so the cracked-pot scientist can
scare up enogh money to keep themselves employed. So the girly man
librals latch on to it to for bigger government, more regulations, more power,
higher self gradification saving the world from the stupid greedy masses.
The polar ice caps were supposed to flood us years ago , ozone was
supposed to be all fizzled up(never here that one anymore)
Recent climmate is on a 89 year cycle 1936 was the warmest
then cooling for 45 years so around the 70's we've
started the warming cycle. You get increasingly erradic weather
durring the warming phaze. 1936 had record hot summer and record cold
winter, expect 2025 to be the same.

T raider

Wrong side of the bed today t?

T Raider is at work and has no time for closets.

Majority of conservatives are closet-free and working class.

That's why we own everything!

Muahahaha!

First three what??????

Last edited: Friday, February 18, 2005 at 7:14:59 AM

^^ Closet Conservative

Hey! I own a bible, an authentic, miniature-diecast, Jeff Gordon #24, replica stock-car and I have three of those World Trade Center commemorative silver coins with the US flag on the back. I own a lot, you goddamn commie pinko!

Last edited: Saturday, February 19, 2005 at 12:10:11 AM

@ Stinky, no I don't think its the bed,
farmers taxes are due the 28th.

T raider

For the record, while Sean Hannity is said to be a Conservative as is Bill O' Reilly said to be, they both have one thing in common: they are both boorish, morons who can't argue the Conservative position for shit. Read some of Joe Sobran's columns off Drudge if you want to read a thoughtful, intelligent Conservative.