I am baffled by the incredible skill some of you have when it comes to shooting! I have played for several months now and feel that I have improved my battlemoding skills tremendously (which helps scrum a great deal), but I am nowhere near the level of some of the players I've been killed by in scrum and battlemode!

For example, in several excellent team scrum games last night (7 on 7!), SUPRA seemed to be able to kill me and anyone else with just 3 shots!
How is that possible? I am talking about a fresh newly spawned tank here! His shots also seemed to be incredibly quick too! How can that be?
I mean, you can only shoot so many shots (the light has 8 in a clip I believe) and once you click the mouse and hold it down the speed of the shots should be the same for everyone, right? However, that doesn't seem to be the case with some of the best battlemoders like Supra or the Professor or Bolo. Their shots seem to be much faster than everyone else's and more deadly...quicker! Is it true or just an illusion?

Is it just in my head? I could not believe just how fast they could shoot! I swore that I only heard about 3 hits and the next thing I knew was that I had to hit the spacebar if I wanted to continue playing! RAT-TAT-TAT and I was dead! A new tank no less!!! How???

Humhum, so you were that RAT-TAT-TAT guy who I saw earlier.

Interesting - I'll have to give the video altering a try and see what happens.

It's been commented on a couple of times that I seem to have a fast rate of fire. I don't know why, as I'm not doing anything special. Perhaps it's just ping, or system capabilities (faster computer sends faster clicks?). I do have a hotkey that sends a 3-shot burst, but I rarely think to use it and I haven't noticed any speed differences either.

No, it's on my game keypad (I'm having a brain-dead week and have forgotten what it's called :S ) You can program individual keys on it, including multiple strokes like "click-click-click". I have noticed though that the max speed of clicking isn't really any faster than using the mouse. What it does do is reduce wear and tear on your mouse.

Paisano, it takes 2 full clips to destroy a light tank (by another light tank) however, u must know that sometimes lag makes u'r shots imvissible, exept for mabe 1 or 2. It would seem like u'r getting hit by just 2 shots, but in fact u'r getting hit by every clip withought even knowing.

Also, it doesn't take much to shoot fast, u just make sure that after every shot has been unloaded, that u unclick and click the left mouse button with fast reflexes ;) (I can relate to that with Bolo :P )

Cadc (SA) (Leader)

my secret weapons!!!:

Regular Wireless mouse

And a keyboard XD XD XD XD XD B)

Cadc (SA) (Leader)

Napalm, you could always get the Nostromo gamepad, which can be programmed the way MTMO's is. Me, I'm old fashioned. Just a normal mouse clicking away on it like a madman. %)

I also think the situation paisano describes is due in part to lag, and in part to skill of the opponent. I've run into it to, where I feel I can barely get 2 rounds off before I've had a full clip and half dumped into my hide.
I never thought to try lowering screen rez, or changing color depth. I may just have to give that a shot. I've always played TT at full 1280x960 rez, with all options turned on. Lowering my settings might help out in that regard.
Thanks for the tip.

Yes, I turn off all non-essential programs when playing. I don't have a lot of external hardware hooked up, so that's not a problem for me. I do tend to leave my popup blocker and PeerGuardian and anti-virus running, just to be paranoid, but no email, no IMs, no browsers, etc.

And thanks to the mental nudge received above, I am using a Nostromo N-32 gamepad for steering, hotkey setting, and picture taking.

Most of this is all true..

The more you play the more you can make the most of lag. Even when I lag (like last night) I can still take out most tanks. The top BMers you wont but you can still try.

Seems like either I have smooth play or jitter. When its smooth I dominate otherwise im just above average....sometimes even worse.

I find that when im laggin I can still aim good most of the time. However dodging bullets is impossible because you dont see or hear half of the bullets that hit you. Its frustrating.

See -z-'s explanations of lag on another thread.

B

@ paisano
I can tell you I didn't have time to read all of these comments due to short on time but I just had a new video game card put in and man I have no clue how I did so good in the past. I am 10 faster now then before, I was able to go toe to toe with supra last night and more then once. B)

Last edited: Friday, October 22, 2004 at 11:37:40 PM

Heh get a mac it runs smoother I used to play on an old comp now I got a new mac and it runs great you can easily move around your aimer and shoot them easily and I never get lag

Those were great games pai

@Bolo= yea, Lag devastates my game play, lag makes me be above average as well (in both scrum and BM) heh, Lag still dominates me, but I'm glad that the only y XD B)

Now LAg pockets, that's another thing! Most of the time, they r to my advantage :P

Cadc (SA) (Leader)... The Teleporter XD B)

Quit running away pai and turn around and shoot; ya wuss.

My best advice would be to forget the technical aspects...just keep playing the top players. Your reflexes will adapt and you will learn from them if you watch them. Most of the really good players benefit greatly from positioning.

Knowing the maps and how to position yourself to deliver your clip at a greater advantage than your opponent helps tremendously. Prof is very good at this. He will take you on at a position of his choosing (ie just over a hump, on the side of a hill, etc etc). Whatever terrain you challenge him on he will find the ideal position to fire upon you. I've tried to emulate this and have found it to be very useful.

Identifying your style is key. I have found that I am better on the side of hills than in flat open terrain. Its just the way I like to play. Tankor is tough in open terrain but I find I have a better chance against him when I'm on the side of a hill. Cant explain it other than I feel more comfortable that way. Few can dominate in open flat terrain so I would suggest avoiding that scenario.

There are plenty of more tips and strategeries (lol...that cracks me up) but these two have help me to become fairly competative no matter who I face. Of cousre lag is the great equalizer....but when its smooth...look out!!!! Its on!!! Lol.

I have to say LAG is the major problem.
I know I play from Germany I have the fastest connection 3000 with fast path for gamers and still I only get a 180 ping to shockwave, when I want to go and play on Homelan my ping goes up to 230 you can forget playing a good game there. Thats why I run my own sever (NO LAG). Great to play.
I have also played around for the last 4 months with the MTU and RWIN settings I have found this makes a big difference to your game. I have my computer and Blackfoot's computer connected togeather through a switch so when he joins my sever he gets no lag same as me. With these conditions its fun to play we never shoot at each other unless you have the scrum because I know I can take him out in 2 to 3 seconds, when I am playing on shockwave I have to lead alot in shooting and start 2 days before that I can drop someone before he scores, this is very frustrating, whats more frustrating is when I lose the scrum from behind or at the goal and in my radar theres no one there LAG POCKET. :S
I wish it was possible that every one had the same conditions and then you would see who the good players are or could be. I get mad when I read VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER who cares you can't vote for something like this, all players have to have the same conditions to make it a fair contest and this will never happen
@Paisano I use DrTCP it lets me change the MTU and the Rwin I found what works for me, MTU set at 1470 Rwin 56565 as I said I have been playing around for 4 Months don't expect a miracle straight away.

Bimp

Max: most of the time my jitter is not to my advantage. My game suffers from it. Cadc and tankor actually have lag pockets that give them an advantage. That is two separate scenerios.

I got nothing to prove when it comes to shooting

:)

B

Well actually, the lag pockets I get causes many things (and many that r to my advantage): 1) a Tank "Dummy" is created, u can't hit it, moreless kill it, while I'm still frozen in the same place, but other players can never be aware that a lag pocket ha soccured, because it happens at random, and it looks normal to other players.

Also, if I'm being chased by like 5 people hot on my tail, if I get a lag pocket, they will pass me up, and I'll reapear rightbehind them ( this often leaves the other players in a great comfussion)

I know there's more to list, but I can't think of anymore for the momment.

As far as my aim goes, it's as deadly as ever (most I comfront in dog fights (prior to testing sometimes) almost always get poped (Bolo should know :P ))

I once battled Bolo 1 on 1 for an olympic match... It felt so stupid because our skills were equally the same, totally matched! I actually quite enjoyed it, Thx Bolo B)

Cadc (SA) (Leader)

I would like to see a rapid fire contest between bolo and any normal tank. In a head to head, no distance between dogfight. Bolo gets off shots faster than anyone I've played. This is not lag gents. I have attributed it to computer CPU clock speed. Forget all the graphics draw stuff, video cards...
You can't miss in this dogfight. Much like Max has said. He will turn and kill you after you get your 5 shot first round. In my case, I have a better connection to the net than bolo and I'm closer to the default servers. What could this be? Something modded or a faster computer?

Am a good Bmer!!But no one Plays Bm anymore!But there was one server that no one could beat me at and thats surivior!!!!!

Cliff hanger perhaps? Lol j/k :P

Cadc (SA) (Leader)

What is this 5 shot stuff about. That is the medium tank.

Light tank: 8 round burst, 0.87 damage per round, can take 11.8 damage
so a light tank will kill another fresh light in 14 shots (11.8/0.87 = 13.6)

@Prey: bolo's fire rate varies with server and day to day just like everyone elses. I've seen him with a great fire rate and I've seen him with a bad one. He's still a good shot and tough to kill either way. But I like him better on his bad fire rate days :)

Yea I never would have won that with any lag

@prey

U shoot just as fast. Because you are an old man you just have poor aim. Dont blame me. (j/k)

U have a better computer and faster connection than i.

Fire rates??

Au, fatlips, and hanksta are much faster than mine.

Dash

16 shots from a light kill another light. Not 14

B

No Bolo
% LightTank.dump();
Member Fields:
accelRate = "14"
antiSlideRate = "10.9"
armorScale = "1"
brainShapeFile = "game/data/shapes/tanks/brainjar01.dts"
Camera = "DefaultTankCamera"
category = "Tanks"
className = "TankData"
coastDeccelRate = "10"
damageAmount = "11.8"
damageScale = "1"
deccelRate = "20"
defaultProjectile = "LightProjectile"
fireScale = "1"
fx = "DefaultTankFx"
maxSpeed = "15.9"
misc = "DefaultTankMisc"
shapeFile = "game/data/shapes/tanks/tank01.dts"
springCorrectScale1 = "2"
springCorrectScale2 = "0.99"
springRangeX = "0.06"
springRangeY = "0.06"
springRangeZ = "0"
springVelScale = "1"
suspensionRange = "0.8"
turnRate = "61"
turretAutoLevel = "0.92"
turretHorRange = "53.5"
turretVerCenter = "2"
turretVerRange = "21"

% LightProjectile.dump();
Member Fields:
bounceExplosion = "DefaultExplosion"
bounceFactor = "1"
burstCount = "8"
burstDelay = "1000"
canSave = "1"
className = "ProjectileData"
count = "220"
damage = "0.87"
gravityScale = "0.4"
inheritVelocity = "1"
maxRotation = "0"
numBounce = "0"
otherExplosion = "DefaultExplosion"
ownTankExplosion = "DefaultOwnTankExplosion"
reloadTime = "125"
resource = "game/data/shapes/tanks/DefaultProjectile.png"
reticle = "LightReticle"
saveOldCartridge = "0"
sizeScale = "0.4"
splashArea = "0"
synchBefore = "500"
synchTime = "1000"
tankExplosion = "DefaultTankExplosion"
velocity = "77"

Dash do I need to teach you how to count?

:)

B

Vash, can I borrow some ram? :)
Bolo doesn't cheat aye.

I know Bolo doesn't cheat, cus all I have is a normal wireless mouse, a normal keyboard, an acer monitor (don't ask y, but I just like the fact that it has speakers built in :P ) and built in computer Kit, and I completely eaven out with skill with Bolo ;)

The nothing speciall, but a gifted skill ---------> Cadc (SA) (Leader)

Ummm... I think I said:

What could this be? Something modded or a faster computer?

Let me check. Seems I've said it twice now... Errr yup I have.

Let's have the shoot off. Heh! In general I've seen players with extreemly fast shoot and re-fire rates. Bolo is on all the time. We play often and was the first I've seen like it. I think the test I described takes out poor aim from the equation. Bolo and I have been nose to nose many times. I've lost out in these battles. You come to know who you will lose, in a duel of guns in Team Scum. Unfortunately for me, the list is getting bigger. I think it is just the natural progress of machine upgrades. My computer hasn't changed since I started the game. Others have upgraded. When you see the upgrades, you notice the difference. The bad of it, is the BMing is taking the long run out of the game. The types of players who still work well are the campers and thiefs who steal close to the goal. Stealing away from the goal is still fun, but is useless in SCUM and Team SCUM. This was not always the case. I feel it has taken a lot of fun out of the game & it causes more bunch ups at the goal. Not in Battle Mode. I bet the faster computers get you higher scores.

Last edited: Saturday, October 30, 2004 at 9:04:32 PM

OLD MAN...plain and simple

:)

Nose to nose with au or fatlips sends my brain popping...try BMing them and tell me im faster..lol

B

I agree with Prey about the further cutting down of long runs. Something must be done, he says.
( I forgot to quote myself: august 03 :))

Last edited: Sunday, October 31, 2004 at 1:52:09 AM

I'm going to repeat an email I sent regarding a discussion of this topic that some of the Psycho captains were having, plus some [second] thoughts...

To the Psycho caps:

I'd like to see this discussed here in more depth for a couple of reasons. First to set aside the thoughts of cheats and second to give us some insights to strategy.

Let's see if we can agree on a foundation. I'll start with some assumptions...

Ping lag is the time it takes for an action on our computer to be registered on the server. We shoot, it goes the to server where it is registered, then the result is sent to our screen. I mostly agree with Sluggy's post on PTT where he suggests lag is overblown. He is correct to say it is seldom the fault of the server. And even if it was all players in the game would be affected to the same degree so the playing field would be level anyway. It is usually a "local" condition as he suggests, such as your isp, and he mentions some "flaky" routers. But since a flaky router can be feeding the signal to several players it can affect the game dynamics if they are all on your team.

[Do you see some of the other consequences of this? It means we have to learn to adapt and "lead" our targets depending on our lag. It also means we may not register "locally" all the hits to us. Bang, bang, we're dead.]

Let's also not blame other players for giving us lag. The server is dishing up it's information to all players at the same rate. We might see them hop-scotching about, but they don't affect our lag. [Dang hard to lead them though, but they are lucky if they can hit anything too.]

Sometimes while running about I suddenly find myself time warped to a different location. I believe that to be caused by packet loss. Like lag, packet loss could be the fault of the server or be local. [Yes, we can be killed during packet loss.]

I think the sluggishness most of us feel during a game now and then is a graphical slowdown. Our graphic cards just can't keep up drawing all the details. This is probably why those moving to new computers are "improving." Their new graphic cards have an easier time keeping up drawing the details and they can aim and steer better. If you can upgrade this is where I would start. Alas, mine is buried deep into do not touch by consumer land on my iMac.

[This past game where the Killer Fleas played Killemall most of us were running around pre-game warming up. I've had decent lag in most servers but on that one I was registering 152 ping going in. That's above my comfort level and I figured others would be having trouble too. Knowing Bolo likes to shoot me I drove over to him to see how is lag was. He fired 3 bursts at me and I was struck 2 times. I told him he was going to be dead meat but I'm pretty sure he could figure that out himself. (He did waste me while I was sitting still typing that though:) He said he was lagging. We tried other servers but we all pretty much thought that the first one was the best for most. My lag was mediocre his was worst. His shooting just wasn't a factor that night. It sucks when that happens. A week earlier I was in his position. Grrrr...
BTW... 14 hits in a light and you are history.]

@Bolo
Heed the wisdom of the flea. A light tank shoots 8 round bursts. If your's does not you purchased some cheap wacko version of TT.
A light will kill another fresh light in 14 shots (11.8/0.87 = 13.6).

The secret no one is telling you paisano is that all these people learned to shoot from the master...

Last edited: Sunday, October 31, 2004 at 4:06:36 PM

@ FireFly
In case you forgot I have beaten you sevral times if not ever time in Surivior. In fact the only person that has beaten my high score of 89 with all players not bots but Pred. Was Moe I saw him score a 93 1 time! Just for thee record thats with out jumping out of the maps to. B)

LONEWOLF(UF/AB) (Co- Leader)

NO NO not me what happened to my picture up there of Shooter McGavin? We can all argue until we're blue in the face over who is best so I won't get in to that.
But Stan is a really excellent BMer and more importantly he is the best I know at teaching someone else how to shoot and dodge. I'm not good at explaining things, especially how to play this game. Catch Stan and ask him to teach you how to shoot and dodge.

Last edited: Sunday, October 31, 2004 at 4:04:44 PM

I know how they do it they aim at you and click the mouse.....

And lag a lot like this guy ^ XD

_{gotcha dash, removed my post}

Last edited: Sunday, October 31, 2004 at 8:27:26 PM

Ya, I think so too dash. Stan is pretty good teacher... Seen him teaching few times and it was interesting to watch.