A boycott isn't going to happen, but how about taking steps to reduce consumption?

In the past year, we've sold a gas hog and replaced it with a more economical van (need the seats for transporting kids). I've joined a carpool, and am considering becoming a bicycle commuter again. Won't be a bad thing from a fitness point of view, either.

Still need to improve on driving around too much. We need to get more organized so we don't have to run to the stores as often. We live 20+ miles from the nearest larger town, so cutting back on trips there would have a big impact.

We're over $3 a gallon. It's ridiculous, and it is impacting what we do. Our disposable income is going to continue to be gobbled away if we don't make changes. Reminds me of the 70s
:[

The increased cost will affect everyone differently - neither carpooling nor public transit are options available to me, so I now work from home one day out of the week (boss agreed so long as it continued to be productive). We will most likely be moving out of this house within the next month or so - perhaps we'll rent an apartment/house closer to where we work.

Accepting?

We have to get to work and show off our Hummers. Who cares if lenders are now showing up at the pumps.

This is gonna be the biggest issue in the next presidential race.

I thought people had jobs before cars... I must be making things up again...

I work from home.... The price of gas is not much of an issue when your only commute is walking downstairs to the coffee pot and back. $3 per gallon eh? Yikes.

Things sure are better since the Boosch Administration took over. We are in a cool war with no real way to resolve it, 2,300 American Soldiers have died so we could get the Weapons of Mass Destruction... No, wait... Liberate Iraq... Nice touch GW. Gas is more than $3 per gallon.... America is the only industrial nation that will not sign the Kyoto Pact to reduce global warming... (great legacy GW)... Taxes are higher, as is unemployment... GW is doing a GREAT job. America is making a lot of friends around the world.... It's a feel-good thing. I sure am gonna miss GW, always fun watching him give speeches, I don't think Jon Stewart will be the same after GW slithers out of office.

The question here should be who
did I vote in office that just sit on
there ass and except the fuel
gouging, and at the same time
watches there oil stock sky rocket???

Btw does anyone know how many
people in our government have stock
in oil???

I know of two people, the President and Vice President.

Peace

I set it up so that I could ride a bike to work, and proximity of home to work will be THE consideration for me and mine from here on out. Gas prices affect me less directly than it does others, but we'll all be seeing the cost of transportation and prodution creeping up and affecting our ability to buy groceries and all of that soon I imagine. My house is 1200 square feet. It's insulated up the hooter. I'm putting in a wood stove and installing a rain capture system for the garden.

If high prices continue, it will mean a death to the suburban lifestyle, and bring people into the communities where they work. (think real estate: buy in the city, and hold onto it). It will also mean that shopping will likely cease being the number one american passtime. I'm looking forward to the end of these phenomena anyway. Should decrease carbon monoxide emissions. I'm not exactly looking forward to the rest of the upheaval, but I've been expecting it.

In my opinion, conservation is crucial now. It doesn't look like technology has a cheap and comprehensive solution in the immediate offing. Partly because most people were dozing when they might have been thinking ahead. This goes for most of us, but save a big chunk of the blame for our government (thanks republicans) and private sector manufacturing.

High gas prices are here to stay. So long cheap energy. So much of our economy and lifestyle is predicated on cheap energy. You all ready for the transformation?

Do you really think the planet can sustain 6.5 billion humans once cheap energy is gone? Think about that, and prepare for upheaval. Doh! I guess we should have been thinking about population expansion a tad earlier. Had a dialogue about that. The 20th century's hyperpopulation drive was only possible because of cheap energy. 3 billion people (circa 1950) sharing the earth's resources sounds a damn sight better than the proposition of 6.5 million folks (now) competing for the same pie, no? The 'green revolution:" technology's triumph in increasing farming yields was more about just dumping cheap, petroleum based fertilizers on the earth. This too will pass, and yields will drop. High cost of transportation will be the end of out of season cuisine. And I do so love lobster bisque.

Its reap what we've been sowing time. Literally. Learn to garden, and find other ways to reduce your footprint. The age of excess is over, and in our lifetimes. Strange eh? Who woulda thunk it? This planet we live on isn't a warehouse, or a mall, a factory, or a gas station. Its living, breathing, changing organism. We are all dependent on it. Our success as a species lies in our ability to find a responsible balance with other lifeforms, space and resources within our natural constraints (or "environment" same thing to humans). We've been conducting ourselves like 14 year old boys on a desert island...made out of chocolate, pornography and motorbikes. That's over.

Imagine that. And you thought the purpose of life was to make a shit-load of money, and avoid paying taxes? That was just a sub-plot stupid people mistook for "life." enjoy your commute, and your 3000 square foot home. While you can. "life" isn't about entitlements...it's about balance, and we don't set the scales.

Last edited: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 at 11:51:51 AM

Good read:http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/7203633/the_long_emergency/?rnd=1145991846447&has-player=true

I hate to split hairs...

"Except" = exclude
"Accept" = agree

I noticed a few times (Including the title) where people are using the word Except instead of Accept.... Totally turns the meaning upside down....

339 to fill up here.

Hum.... This is why I run to where I wanna go, this is why I grow my food, this is why im always frigging out of breath........

And this is why I still have money in my pocket

WELL anyways, I wanna see what crap they try to pull when all of the oil is gone, friggin idiots need to die.

So what you you just said is that we need high priced gas so only the rich people can buy gas?

Ghost, yee see the irony.

Jesus: where did I say that? Pretty much...no where.

But you do hit on a point...in the future, only the rich will drive gas powered cars. I imagine that the rest of us will be walking, riding bikes, or riding horse drawn buggies, that is, unless technology somehow saves us and delivers unto us another cheap source of readily available energy. I'm not holding my breath.

But consider this: in no time in our history has the gap between the rich and poor spread to the point it is at now. The bush admin only increased this gap. There are lots and lots of very rich people who could afford $10 -$20 a gallon gas. No surprise. 5 percent of the population control 80% of the capital. That leaves the remaining 95% of us fighting tooth and nail for their leavings.

As it is now, because of credit, inexpensive toys and cheap food, the perceptible differences between the rich, the middle, and the poor are blurred. In terms of material consumption, we feel like we can attain everything that they can attain. Our poor folks drive cars, buy new TVs, eat out....but not for long. Cheap oil and cheap energy was like free money to industrialized countries. Now that we set up our economy on free money, it is all going away. Now what? Only the rich will drive. And along with loss of cheap energy comes...more authentic poverty, the loss of the illusion of material equality...and class strife. Could get ugly.

If I'm riding an ox to work and a Hummer goes ripping by, I don't know about you, but ima key that SOB if I get a chance.

Dunno bout you but gas is frickin cheap

$10.17 per gallon of gatorade

$84 per gallon of mouthwash

$123 per gallon of pepto bismol

$178 per gallon of nyquil

$26 per gallon of whiteout

...and much much more...but we use gasoline the most which is why its expensive

"America is addicted to oil!"

Who say dat? XD

Our oilman-in-chief say dat. He got an "amen" from the vice-oilman in chief.
and then they watched their oil stocks soar.

Wat you expect from oilmen?

I like to drive as fast and as far as possible. My ride is a black Pontiac Trans-Am. I disobey every open container law and I believe in free range children. That means there's no seat belts at all in my ride.

Some sucker named Big Enos Burdette just bet me and my rig driving pal Cledus that we couldn't bring a truckload of beer back from Tex-Arkana in a very small period of time. Easy money cause those smokies will never catch us.

We gonna do what they say can't be done...

LOL

But you dont have keys...

^ no offense, but "sticking it to the man" by not putting on your seatbelt might not be the best of ideas :P
Back on topic:

Yeah, we try not to buy from Exxon as much as possible. One person doesn't make a difference, though. You would need at least a million people not to buy to make a pinprick. In order for them to notice you, you would the need the entire state of PA not to buy gas. In order to put them into bankrupcy like Cat said, you would need everybody east, or west of the mississippi to not buy gas. I am not saying we could do it, but if we are, we better get some sort of add campaing that will spread all across the nation. No offense, to ThinkTanks, but it doesn't really have 50 mil+ people to read these posts. Totally agree with most of you, though. Cost us $25 to get 8 1/2 gallons today, and that was at the cheapest place in town (two cents! W00t!).

Just to let you know I would LOVE it if fuel was $3.00 a gallon in the UK!!

In the last few days unleaded petrol in the UK has risen 6-7 pence per litre and when I filled up today it was 98.9 per litre.

Ok so you are thinking so what, well on todays exchange rate and calculating litres to US gallons thats a massive

AND YOU THINK YOU HAVE FUEL PRICE ISSUES, TRY BUYING THE SAME STUFF IN THE UK

It all stinks man, and its getting worse

Very ******* off and out of pocket

Daz

I'll sell yah this autographed pic of Stink on his way to work if you'd like.

One of the benefits though is that you have a better public transit system then we do. US is too large to cost effectively build good mass transit - it's always been cheaper and easier to grow the cities out than up (urban sprawl). But if it starts getting too expensive for all to maintain their own transportation then mass transit will start becoming more popular - either by more people moving into the higher density areas, or the existing transit systems spreading out further (probably both). I doubt we'll ever become as well covered as the UK and Europe are. We've just got too much space.

I'd be willing to take light rail from home to work if one existed (bus would take too long at current commute).

No Cat, the boycott will not work. We send Exxon bankrupt, then we move to Arco. They are gone within a week. That leaves 76. 76 notices that they have no competition and hike their prices to 10 dollars a gallon. Oh gee, where else can we buy gas? Nowhere, you bankrupted all the other companies. Dont, do it.

^^ TMO

That is a commonly perceived myth about the UK transport system projected by our government,and believed by many outside of the UK. To put it into perspective, for me its a 25 min train journey to the centre of London, which is pretty good. To travel there and back on the train costs around $18.00 per day thats nearly $100 per week and around $5000 per year, and I only live 20 miles outside London!!! On top of that you cant get a seat on the train in the mornings or evenings, there is no air conditioning on the trains or underground, its hot, dirty, smelly overcrowded and to top if off the service is unreliable and scheduals are ruined if its to hot, to wet, to cold or if there are leaves on the track. LMAO we have a better public transport system, sure trains, busses etc go around the country and we definately dont have as much space to travel as the US but I tell you its as expensive, if not more so, than actually paying through the nose for fuel and driving. You may not know this but in London now we even have a conjestion charge, which means that there is a zone around London that you have to pay if you drive into, that alone is $13 per day!! If you dont pay or forget to pay the charge its a $110 fine, how do they know well there are numberplate recognition cameras everywhere around the zone - no escape from this tax opps charge.

In the UK its getting more expensive almost month by month to travel by car or public transport, the increases in price are way more than inflation, and as I drive about about 35,000 miles a year as well as getting the train into London a few times a week I feel that my travel cost are spiralling out of control and there is nothing I can do about it. I need to work as do thousands like me, so we just have to live with it and work harder to earn more money just so we can put fuel in our cars.

The UK is an expensive place to live and I just can't see when or where it will level out, the government are just taxing everything to the max, two thirds of the cost of fuel is tax. Perhaps there will be a revolution sometime in the future, just in time to save all the people who live here from bankruptcy.

Last edited: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 at 8:36:59 PM

I personally am hoping to see the return of the Stanley Steamer

Who's with me? XD

Selective boycotts at best will reduce a company enough to be bought by the other. Eventually we'll have a gas-station monopoly. Hardly a solution.

The U.S. Burns oil faster than the Earth can produce it. The solution is to USE LESS GAS. I know that this may not be feasible for some (can't afford newer vehicle, no bus available, etc), but most people CAN. People who drive 1/2 mile to the coffee shop instead of biking ro taking a walk. People who don't even look at the mass transit system in their city. People who chose an SUV over a station-wagon or van strictly because of the "cool" factor. These people need to look at their priorities.

As I said in another thread, by free market rules: the gas price will not go down until either the supply goes up or the demand goes down. Which is more feasible?

I don't want the government trying to regulate gas-station prices. That's treating the sympton while possiby causing other issues. What I do want is for the government to make an ACTUAL HONEST attempt to reduce our fuel consumption. I want to see increased federal funding to make useful mass-transit systems in cities (buses and rails). I want to see some upgraded and expanded inter-city rail systems for shipment (to reduce the crazy amount of shipping trucks on the highway). I want to see some government subsidizing to commercial companies developing new fuel-saving technologies so the new efficient cars don't have to be so dang expensive to the consumer.

Subsidizing fuel refineries and reducing their emmission requirements was certainly not the solution I was looking for. America is hooked on gas like a drug, so it's only pathetic that we are whining to the drug-dealer about his price when you know we're going to buy it anyways. Gas rehab is gonna suck, but we'll be better off in the end.

- Bomb...James Bomb

Since we're talking market forces here, let's relate that to a boycott.

If we somehow magically got the American public to stop buying gas at Exxon stations, what would that do?

Exxon would have a larger supply of gasoline than they could use. Would they lower their price to drive us back to their doors? Doubtful. Joe Gascan, your local Exxon dealer, would go bankrupt. Exxon would just sell their product to independent distributors on the open market for a premium price.

Your other stations would have a somewhat larger supply to work with, but since the market forces pushed that fuel into the open market, the price went up. You take it in the nads either way.

Truly, we are not going to see gasoline supplies go up. Not going to happen. So we have to work on the demand side. This is going to hurt some of us more than others. If you live in a somewhat rural area like I do, prepare for pain. If you live in an urban area, park the car. Dig out that bike, get the bus schedule, take light rail. Save your car and fuel budget for trips to the beach with the family at vacation time.

Stink's probably right about peak oil. It's not going to get better, but sure could get worse. I can foresee a reverse of the urban flight effect. The affluent will be running back to cities because living 40 miles from where you work won't make sense. Big problem though- where do they get to live? That pressure will push up housing costs in cities, driving out lower income residents. They'll be forced to move to the suburbs, where housing will be cheaper, but you better find a way to get to work... (Of course the ultrarich won't care either way.)

It's going to be a difficult adjustment, and may be far worse for some people than others. JB's got the right idea. We need to invest (at a societal level) in transit systems that are efficient and useable. The transition time is now, but where's the leadership to take it on? In Exxon's back pocket, of course...

"Clench your bottoms, it's goin ta be a bumpy ride..."

Last edited: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 at 8:25:37 AM

@Cat

First I want to say I am glad you made this thread as its a subject I am passionate about, you are right fuel costs effect many, if not every aspect of our lives, and the way things are heading, well I just dont know..................................

Pressure groups in the UK have tried to get boycotts going, by sending thousands of emails to people and getting them to forward them on. One week everyone woulf boycott Esso, the next BP and the next Texaco and so on. This was about 18 months ago and there was a massive momentum towards getting this to happen. On the first week of the boycott what do you think happened? All that good will and determination went out of the window and people filled up their cars at the same station as usual resulting in a collapse of the boycott and leaving the oil companies with a big grin on their faces. Do boycotts work? In my oppnion they do not.

I am not saying that its worse in the UK or the USA but that its a common problem we are all getting shafted by the Oil Companies and Governments on the cost of fuel. I personally spend in excess of $1000 a month on fuel and its getting out of hand. To start analysing the cost of living and what people earn is nonsense, we have the same bills to pay as you, sure we got so called free national health but we pay for that each month from our salaries in a tax called national insurance. There is not that much difference in the types of bill we all pay, why is it that everyone outside the UK thinks we earn huge amounts of money and every English person is rolling in money, when I can tell you we are'nt and dont. Come to london and by a bottle of Bud in an average bar and it will cost you £3.50 - £4.00 ($6.25 - $7.14) and that is no BS!!! We are under just as much pressure to make ends meet, pay out bills / taxes and have a decent standard of living as you guys. The increases, for us as well as you, in fuel costs are way above increases on the normal costs of living, and indeed far in excess of what annual increases in salary offer. If one of my employees asked me for a rise to help cover their fuel bills I would have to give the same answer as you guys would get from your bosses, a resounding no. So who pays this extra cost, we all do out of our hard earned money just to be able to travel in our own cars. On this point we are lucky as we do not have the distances to travel that you guys do, and thats one thing I am glad of.

What can we do, I wish I knew. In the UK there have been blockades, demonstrations and protests over the last few years on the cost of fuel and what it is doing to our countries businesss as well as private vehicle users, these events have made no difference in the slightest, they might as well not have happened. Haulage companies are struggling as the cost of running trucks and vans etc is dramatically growing but the value of haulage contracts are not increasing at the same rate as fuel prices. As the larger companies are trying to hold their transportation cost at the same level as three years ago, how can a company make money on that basis - simple you cant. How do I know this? Well up untill 3 years ago I owned a haulage company running 32 trucks, due to spiralling costs and after 12 years I sold up and had to find someother source of income. Past business contacts and friends who are still in the business are struggling like you would not believe, and they see no end in sight.

Three years ago fuel in the UK was 63 - 67 pence per litre today its 97 - 99 pence per litre, a rise of around 34% - to me that is unacceptable but the oil Companies and governments have got us by the nuts!!! What can we do? Not buy fuel, not drive, not travel, just sit at home and look out the window? (and play TT of course) No we have to carry on and pay the extortionate prices that we are being charged - what else can we do to change this,...... I think nothing.

The real question I would like to know is why over the past few years has the cost of fuel/oil risen so much? Does it cost more to extract? More to refine? More to transport? More to find? Is there much less? Is the crude quality depreciating? Are the oil companies and governments being honest? Is it all a big stitch up?

The final thing I personally would like to know is who has got all this additional money?, where the heck is it?, and what is it being spent on?

Probabally not a long term sustainable alternative to oil thats for certain.

Phew

Daz

Last edited: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 at 9:15:02 AM

Good stuff up there.

JB:

trains are hundreds of times more effecient at moving freight than are trucks. The government has abandoned the rail system and needs to reinvest in this crucial mode of transport. The time to do this is 20 years ago, but we might as well hit it hard now. This will take awareness and leadership. Both are lacking at present

LGM:

bingo! The rich will drive up city housing costs (its already happening in the west) as they flee the suburbs, and the poor will backfill the suburbs...leaving them in quite a bind because they will have no effecient way to travel to work and they will have no way to easily acquire the ammenities they need as suburban stores/services will close due to cost of transporting goods out there.

It really will be a bumpy ride. Ready for a little more social darwinism?

That could be correct Fingers. Resale homes have increased for two months in a row after a five month decline. New home sales weretaking a dive. Check CNN for the record gain of new home sales. Man they really jumped because of the lowerage in price. Future data will show where people are moving. I'll post it once I get the info. It is my biz after all. Most new homes will be outside the city limits.

After all of my goofy posts I'll be serious for a second. Gas prices are killing me. The main part of my job is to drive people around to look at homes. I put on about 25,000 miles a year. This year was the first I was able to claim gas and mileage over depreciation.

Last edited: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 at 9:29:25 AM

LGM raises a good point about the resident versus employment region separation in the U.S.. For many cities, there is only a highway from the affordable residential clusters to where the jobs are. No train and no express bus. Alternatively, trying to live in the same city as your job can be nearly impossible with housing costs in the "convenient" locations.

Anyone ever play Sim City? I always liked to put a rail between these locations. With enough parallel tracks, I could reduce the congestion on the highways. The Bay Area has the BART train and VTA Line that connect the outside resident zones to the inner city. It's actually a very nice system and a good model for other cities. However, it took susbstantial city and state-funding to get these systems in place, and the Bay Area is considered to be a "rich" city compared to others in the nation. So, there are viable solutions, but they'll never see the light unless the Government starts providing some federal funding to support these projects.

To Dazzle:

Did you see the retirement package for the ex-CEO of EXXON? I think it's pretty clear where the money went. All of the excuses about war and so on are pretty false. It's simply a matter that the price is set at a level we are willing to pay. Yes, the price is over $3.00/gallon? Did you still fill your tank? Then the price is not going to go down.

I think the only place of confusion is that ALL of the gas stations have high prices. Theoretically, one gas station should try to have lower prices than the other. This will make people buy their gas and increase their profits. The other gas companies should then lower their price in order to get customers again. This continues until the companies can't lower their prices further as they compete against each other. Remember when you'd see gas commercials?

However, it now feels like they are all just different faces to the same company, because I don't see any visible competition between them. They all raise in unison. There are two possible reasons. One is that they are all collaborating to raise prices. This is an ogopoly (spelling?) and is illegal. However, I wouldn't be surprised if the government was a tad...ermmm...slow in responding to that. The other possibility is that the overseas oil is just massively expensive and that all of the gas stations had to raise prices to remain profitable. I don't think the oil cans have raised THIS much, though.

Either way, there is no easy solution to lower gas prices. We just gotta find a way to use less.
- Bomb...James Bomb

Rogue, hybrid time?

Boycott? Boycott your car.

Rogue: house prices inside the city of portland have more than doubled in the past five years or so. They've increased everywhere, but not as much as the close-in houses.

I can't say that it is soley because of energy. Many of the folks that moved in came to portland because the city invests tons of cash into infrastructure and urban renewal. Our downtown and surrounding areas are amazing compared to how they were 10 , 15 years ago. We have an awesome public transportation system which includes light-rail and street cars. The light-rail lines extend into surrounding bed-room communities. They are cheap, safe and easy to ride.

I think the forward thinking and investment by our elected representatives and our public has created an extremely desirable urban location. This city is truly a model for how to improve struggling urban landscapes. The pity now is that middle class and working class families can no longer afford to live anywhere but the fringes and the suburbs. We're seeing our student enrollement decrease sharply at the same time it increases out in the county.

I expect the trend of rising house prices in the city to continue. It hasn't even begun to slow down here, even though it seems to have elsewhere. Rising gas prices are likely to just keep it ticking upwards. Not a bad time to be a real estate agent.

By the way, how do you fit all your clients in the Trans Am? Those back seats suck. You must hear "Shotgun!" an awful lot.

Last edited: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 at 9:56:59 AM

I had a Hybrid Ho. Unfortunately due to the incredibly fat folks I drive around it wasn't working out. I had a really hilarious situation where a fat family couldn't ride in the car with me. I also got sick of taking the car seats in and out. It was a Honda Hybrid. A hybrid would be more feasible to me once the price drops. What I was paying for it compared to a standard Honda really made no sense, even with the tax writeoff and hefty gas prices. Plus, as I said, when driving fat Americans around I typically have to drive my Cherokee.

Yah Stink, home sale prices will always go crazy the closer in they are. What I was considering was places like D.C., NYC or L.A. There are some new subdivisions being built in these areas but not nearly as much as in the Burbs. A smaller or newly exploding city such as yours will reflect the new home sales data. An older and established city such as where I am will reflect resales. You should see the crap people pay for just to get to work easier. These places need bulldozed yet sell for 800k on the low end. Washington has completely transformed. Placee you'd be afraid to walk down the street in are now spectacular places to live but they're resales. Hence the reason I'd like to wait and see the data in regards to high gas price and where people are moving.

Sorry, this is garbled and has not been proofed. I'm typing with a 1year old next to me. Woot! He starts daycare on Monday. FInally.

Can't belive ow much wrting one person write in this thread.

Can't belive ow much mispeling one person write in this thread.

Cant bleive ow much grammar one person buthcers in this thread

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Why would somebody butcher his grammer? I love my grammer. She's 95 years old and knits me sweaters from laundry lint. Goof on his mudder but leave his grammer outa this.

Loudest I've laughed in a while...even called the wife over to read.

JB believe me, intermodal transportation is too unreliable.

Same old BS. The people who make the laws have their money in oil. We are gonna pay thru the nose until we start using something other than fossil fuels. R & D on that will crawl because the lawmakers dont want competition.

B

^ finally, a realistic fuel gauge

You're right about the fuel dealers. They barely make any profit on gas, and the minimart keeps many of them in business. Support your local gas dealers- buy a slurpee as you pedal by on your recumbant bike...

Or join this carpool! Slurpees all around!

Time to get creative with transportation... Anyone ever try an ostrich?
;)

Last edited: Thursday, April 27, 2006 at 8:01:05 AM

@Cat: Love the guage, but it's inaccurate. Many a time I had both empty tank and empty wallet! :P
@LGM: man, those funky bikes look disconcerting! Riding backwards on a 2-wheel bike? No thanks. The "conference bike" amuses the heck out of me! It just reeks of a "team building" exercise.

I had this sort of screwball idea: remember the "Sky Line" at amusement parks? Similar to what you use to go up ski slopes, only they are fully enclosed. The neat thing is they never stop, they just pop off the track at stations (which pull the cables). Imagine those in a city where you could code in your destination. Each cart can hold up to 4 people. It would then run down the cables and switch tracks at connecting stations based on what destination you have encoded. It would be slow, but continuous since you would only stop at your destination as it pops you off the cable. These could run over the streets using the buildings for supports. Businesses could get government benefits for supporting a switching platform on the top. The view would be incredible. For safety, the cable could be triple-wound so that 2 out of 3 can break and still stay up.

This is after 10 minutes of thinking, and the devil is in the details, but I wonder if it could work?

- Bomb...James Bomb

^ hmmm.... Kinda like the old cable cars at Disneyland. Could be a problem in heavy weather though.

I just got this from a listserv, and it ticks me off

Bribe us with a few bucks and try that again, will they? :S

Yep, it's a bribe. I read that this morning and no amount of coffee has made me feel better since. $100...what is that, less than 3 tanks of gas? Somehow, I thought the Arctic Refuge was worth more than that....

- Bomb...James Bomb

Last edited: Thursday, April 27, 2006 at 1:52:14 PM

Speaking of jackasses:

GET ME OUT OF THIS GD THING!!!!!!!!!!

Last edited: Friday, April 28, 2006 at 10:57:07 AM

^ Lol... Maybe he's allergic to H₂O... Smelly exhaust on those H₂ rigs. Maybe he misses all the carbon monoxide.

Cripes- what a hypocrite. Anyone seen a clearer example? Makes me wonder how much these guys laugh at all of us after their little staged press conferences. :(