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Amen brotha! We don't invade other countries unprovoked and then make excuses. What I don't get is that we "allow" ourselves to carry nukes, but we get all ruffled when other countries do the same thing to protect themselves from us. Also, when we take away civil liberties to protect ourselves, the terrorists win. Notice the word "terror"--that's exactly why we give up our rights: we (or some higher level bureaucrats) are TERRIFIED of another attack. What we need in this world is more trust.
I can't prove myself trustworthy if you don't trust me.
A rough-ish quote from Abe Lincoln (I'm gonna have to find the exact wording later):
"He who gives up liberty for temporary security deserves neither liberty nor security."
"He who gives up liberty for temporary security deserves neither liberty nor security."
Heard it before, still valid. You go, Abe!
I feel like burning the flag, or at least a poster of Bush's face. The closest thing I can do is fill my playlist with Rage Against the Machine and System of a Down songs- and you bet I did. This makes Reason 5500 to impeach Bush. Is that enough?
I'm right there with ya, brotha,
-U for Ubutnu (aka DJ Wings)
...I wanna be a Canadian...
Last edited: Monday, April 10, 2006 at 8:19:40 AM
Hey, look at me, I'm agreeing with Rabby on a political matter. Look ma, no hands! Good article, man.
Could this be the beginning of the end for Bush? How is the right-wing press (FoxNews, Rush, etc.) reacting to this? Are they simply towing the line, or are they reacting like Rabban? The only thing that can stop Bush now are rumbles from the Bushies themselves. Even then... Who knows.
I find it ironic that Bush is referring to the Iranian PM as "Hitler". I would say Bush is farther along that road than Ahmedinejad, at least in the pre-emptive agression department. At least Iran hasn't invaded any other countries yet.
I think it's time for everyone to realize what us progressives have been saying all along. The Bush-led America is a rogue nation. The Bush-led America is an axis of evil.
Last edited: Monday, April 10, 2006 at 8:06:20 AM
I checked in on Rush today and he didn't mention it. I missed about an hour for lunch, but I don't think it was on the radar. Immigration was the topic of the day.
Good post rabban, dead on.
The threat isn't a box cutter.
Last edited: Monday, April 10, 2006 at 4:48:07 PM
@ R for Rabban:
I totally agree with you, I have been wondering for a long time when that you guys would notice that your governement just does anything they want with your rights and explain it with the simple reason "safety for all our inhabitants". They take all your freedom away, is that what you want? I don't think so!
Do you guys even know that NSA is able to uncode all your emails and read them, download the files you send by email. Hear all your telephones without any proof against you.
Is this a National Security Agencie or a sort of Gestapo?
Because I support you Rabban I will change my PTT name to S for ScytheMan
Great Job!
S for ScytheMan
I saw V for Vendetta and thought it was great, because I left very disturbed that we don't have these symbols or icons that we look for as models. We have broken them all down and laid waste to every one of them, or at the very least, they have no meaning for us anymore.
But whither the symbol? Where is the voice that speaks for all of American Humanity? The symbol that touches the hearts of all people who live within this country? Because the symbols we have are dead. This country needs some inspiration and it isn't in the hands of anyone that's within the current establishment.
We now find our heroes in an imaginary world, and are placated to cynical non-action and arrogant apathy by spending a few moments with them as we relish what might have been. Only to find that when we return to the light, our inspiration is shattered by our own existence. And having been shattered, we return, once again, to doing nothing about our current state. One universal symbol that defines our existence, that gives us purpose as a country in the midst of our own turmoil.
Its a great observation memphis. I don't know if this counts, but I have an example...
Howard dean.
Really the only serious voice in opposition to the status quo in the presidential elections of 2004. And we saw what became of him.
He was turned into a laughing stock partly through his own uninhibited exuberance, partly through sound suppression technology...but mostly at the hands of our pro-status quo media. It is now "common knowledge" that he is a whack-job.
He stood for something dramatically different (still does). But he stood before an incredible, immovable force. He was type-cast as a zany liberal and marginalized away systematically, efficiently. The system would not tolerate a man who questioned authority...or questioned the system itself. I believe Kerry took note, and played the game accordingly.
We like our heroes fictionalized. We aren't brave enough for heroes in the real world, unless those heroes have been branded as such by the status quo itself...witness the exceeding popularity of the NYFD or NYPD after 9/11. Conversely, look at the lowly status of rebel rousers in this country...those who questioned the war. Cindy sheehan and joe wilson, among others, are villified almost daily on Faux News...
We aren't brave enough for heroes. We can't even recognize them till they're hanging from a cross...how little we've changed.
Anyone who says "aye", change your name accordingly. That was why I changed mine.
V lives! E are some excelent points. This country seriously needs a revolution. Peacful or violent, it is going to happen, too. It is only a matter of time before bush declares some insane, DeadDuck law that pushes the bush haters over the edge. Then we will start to see the V's. They will be the ones who can outsmaart our government and, may I quote the man himself:
"No, you have bullets, Mr. Creedy. And by the time you are out, you better hope I am no longer standing, or you all will be dead by the time can reload."
Buuurned! I belive that this has so much sybolism in it. Government= Lotsa bullets right now, am I right? They are shooting a couple at us right now, but they still have a lot of them. They will eventually run out, and if the people realize this, that government will be punched right in the frikin face. I have said mine, and will preceed to not change my name, but stand as who I am, and for what I beleive in.
Pardon my rudeness, I cannot abide useless people.
I become less active in this forum and the whole world turns upside down. Was this thread started by the same guy who used to post under the name Rabban? Is JJ still a Mehlman talking head...or has hell frozen over?
;)
I might just have to see this movie. I kind of like the name.
^:)
@ PGG: Great quote, I couldn't remember his exact text there. But I m sure you r right!
@ Memphis: So you mean something like the Church was, with the Holy †.
Scythe
Scythe, no, what I mean is an actual person or thing that we all can see as inspirational. It used to be leaders, like Abe Lincoln, G. Washington, JFK, ML King Jr. I would even say, Uncle Sam in the past, the minutemen of the Revolutionary War, or even the statue of liberty.
I wouldn't deny that God's Spirit is the source of inspiration, I just don't believe others are willing to make that interpretation or see it as something unifying.
I just want someone with integrity, someone who is willing to take some risks and not make leadership about partisan or cronyist favor, who will say what needs to be said, and go beyond the usual defining issues. Because after all, is not America about rugged individualism?
Last edited: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 at 6:01:50 AM
Explain the rugged... Indivualism I get :).
I never knew you were a smart guy, but yea gee I like that :)
Now about your post. Indeed a G. Washington-look-a-like is what the USA (and maybe the whole world) needs, but how to find one...
Maybe they will step up, maybe it is something that forces him/her too... Like cruel things done to his/her parents.
A new Jeanne D' Arc :) I d love to see...
In the books they always say that she was very pretty XD
Scythe
Iran is said by many analysts to lack the equipment, including a nuclear reactor, to make nuclear weapons.
But Rice brushed aside suggestions Iran was far from the goal the United States and its allies suspect _ nuclear weaponry.
I can't help but wonder if these are the same analysts who said the aluminum tubes were for conventional weapons?
Last night I had a theory, fueled in part by Blind Cide's link. Perhaps the goal all along has been to take on Iran and Iraq was just a stepping stone, a locality to launch our operations against Iran. That way the war is in the Middle East and we don't risk our real estate. The other day I read a quote by Bush that said he felt he was the only one with the courage, both now and in the future to do what had to be done. Which says to me, he's not afraid to use any device at his disposal to win the war on terror. That's a bit scary. He is singular in his vision/mission and sometimes that's a good thing, but I think he needs to put on the brakes and think about where we're going to be in 10 years.
On a diabolical note, in my Christian circles it seemed like it was always assumed that some godless liberal would lead us into the end of the world kind of stuff. What a twist it would be to find out that a Christian would actually be the one to start that fire with many of the faithful going right along with him/her. Not to say that God isn't still in control of the whole thing, but often times our perception of what God wants can often impede what He's really up to.
Bush had a giant campaign before the election didn't he... He one his own can't afford a campaign like that, where did he get the money then, the oil companies from Texas supported him and now he has to pay them back. In Iraq there is oil, Afghanistan too and Iran is one of the biggest oil producers in the world. A real rival for the Texas' oil companies, that might be the true reason for the wars in the Middle East. The rest is just propaganda like the nazi's did, like the chancelor did in V for Vendetta. You guys should see a propaganda movie made by the nazi's that is just cruel making everything look like that..
Scythe
Just thinking...wouldn't it be better to revisit America's policy banning the use of assassination rather than nuking another country? Somehow it would seem to be more logical to take out a country's leader who's bent on destroying America rather than blasting his country and giving him the opportunity to retaliate. I think a 1:500 kill ratio would be morally acceptable. ;)
Hey rabby: that works for pat robertson!
"Not to say that God isn't still in control of the whole thing, but often times our perception of what God wants can often impede what He's really up to." Especially when your perception of what God wants has been shaped by the GOP and their Conservative Christian Allies...question the nexus between the leaders of the religious right and the GOP.
What is it that the leading evangelicals want politically? And why is it that they feel like they can get it from the GOP but not from the Dems?
What is up with these names.....
D for DJ wings (SA)
R for Rabban
S for Scytheman
S for sersh
????
Did you ALL see that movie?
Did you plan this?
C for Cynicism
I think V for Violence is a rather nihilistic movie. Ok you blow up all institutions because they're corrupted... Then what? It's a childish thing to suggest all institutions and everyone are corrupted and thus it's ok to wipe hundred of years of finely honed political traditions. How grotesque. This is Weimar Republic thinking, and can only lead the way for a real dictatorship.
We'll never get rid of the Political - it's not the point anyway. The Political is there to help organize things at a macro level. The Political is an immanent fixture in our human landscape.
What this movie does to young mind is just feeding more cynicism and promotes laziness. Why bother to get informed and learn about our democratic institutions, our history? Again the one-liner mentality: wipe the bastards. Great. We're really moving forward.
There are plenty of checks and balance in our system - if only rules are respected and rotten apples prosecuted. We all know it doesn't work perfectly but that overall it's doing a fairly decent job. Institutions are bigger than Bush or Blair or whichever unpopular leader of the hour.
But then I don't have the solution to the 2 parties crisis in the US. It's true that Washington is becoming a monolithic bloc of power and money. Hopefully one day other minor parties will emerge and we'll see minority government in the US too. Works great here in Canada.
Well, stink, you're going to get my budding theory, (which may or not be the truth) concerning the GOP-CCA connection. For awhile there, the GOP was simply on the same side as many conservative Christians on some key issues and got their vote. The GOP has sided more with the CCA on gay and abortion issues. Then I think the GOP started courting them in addition to the Christians becoming more politically active, seeing that a party was actually starting to take them seriously. The thing is, I think the CCA is starting to depend more on the political and judical process rather than the Gospel. While I can see trying to stop abortions through reasonable compromise, gay marriage is a different deal. Stopping gay marriage only does one thing in my book, keeps gays from getting married. It doesn't change their opinion or lifestyle and doesn't get them any closer to the kingdom of God. I think they're trying to accomplish what they feel the Gospel has failed to produce, but the failure lies with the messengers, not the Message. I could argue the same thing with any moral issue since making something illegal doesn't necessarily stop someone from committing the act and even if they don't, they're no closer to God. I think Christians in general need to get back to their message, their mission and see the change that comes through transformed hearts and minds.
@canon - I changed my handle to express my support for the ideas in the movie, the others followed suit in an expression of solidarity.
@ Hugo- You made some good points there. But there is a minor flaw in the whole "Keep reading and you'll do good" theory: Reading is reading. You need to step up. There are plenty of people who have the capabilities to overthrow our government with a flick of their finger in the world, but none do it. Why? Because change is uncertain. It can completely backfire right in your face. It can blow your ass off twice and still not be done.
But, what if it doesn't. What if what you try to change somthign by some drastic measure(In V's case, blowing up a building without hurting anyone... In the explosion). It is not the drastic measure, or explosion that changes it though. It is what people beleive the drastic measure stood for. The number 1 is only the numer one because we say so, and a firecracker could stand for chicken. So why can't somthing that comes from your brain be what your brain makes it- A victory.
On a different note, lets put it this way. Humans have botched up. They screwed around with intelligence, and they screwed around with stupidity. You would be supprised how they somhow managed to do that simltaniously. Maybe our only purpose in life is to be alive. We don't seem to be doing much else. I have found myself continuosly asking myself this question since the whole "death to 90% of you" thing. Maybe we should just die. Maybe would should just all go away. We suck... Why not? Then I rememered a nice quote from the ol' j-man: "Destruction is never a good path". Now, I know this completely cotridicts my above statement, but there is always more than one raod in the same direction. Maybe we need to do somthing big, but not destroy anything valuable. Enlighten, if you will. Take responsiblility, stop pointing fingers, and just start to live.
Now, since it seems like I am just rambling on, I will stop. I hope that I did not make anyone mad, but show them a different path... Damn, I feel like a hippy :P
Pardon my rudeness, I cannot abide useless people.
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As some of you may have guessed, I recently saw V for Vendetta . I thought it was a good movie, but the themes were even more important. By the time I came out of the theater, I wanted to book a flight to anywhere just so I could refuse to remove my shoes and insist on keeping my fingernail file and clippers. How long will we allow our government to do whatever they want concerning our rights in the name of safety and security?
Then this comes up... Bush 'is planning nuclear strikes on Iran's secret sites'
This has got to stop! We can't preemptively attack another sovereign country based on the fear they may attack us or our allies. We need to sit back and take the hit, otherwise we really do start becoming the aggressors. And what's to stop Russia and/or China from deciding THEY need to attack US since we've become too powerful and may seek to undermine them? This sort of thinking never ends. So we take a hit, then respond with a butt kicking.
Here's what I think. We need to go back to a pre-9/11 way of thinking, at least in a few areas. Do I want increased security? Sure, but not at the cost of trampling the Bill of Rights and other freedoms. I'll take the risk. I think many other Americans are willing to do the same. Anything we change about our country that effects our citizens is a victory for the terrorists. They're causing our own leaders to take away our freedoms and restrain our rights.
Somehow, I prefer the defiant America, that dares any terrorist to try to hijack an airplane with a box cutter. He'd get the crap beat out of him before he made it 5 ft to the cockpit. So give me my dang shoes, I'm going to need them when Hasan makes his move. ;)