Forums Index >> General >> those who do not learn from history...
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As opposed to...
As opposed to...
Real action.
You must listen before comment, etc.
Of course it is extremely difficult to do anything proactive and at the same time not spend a dollar. But with the Republican agenda government doesn't exist to help.
An interesting quandary. Maybe Brownie can be rehired...
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Last edited: Monday, January 30, 2006 at 3:33:50 PM
The one thing we learn from history, is that we don't learn from history. If we did we wouldn't be in the mess we're in today.
-- Leonard Ravenhill
What I take exception to is Tally's focus on this word: republican.
The most dangerous aspect of this issue is that so many Americans think they should hand over concern for anything other than protection of their individual rights to the government. The Dems are no better. As soon as you use taxes to fund a misplaced responsibility the parasites and the corrupt will come to feed.
BC republicans = democrats?
I know you are coming at this from another angle, that is, the libertarian idea (or is it anarcho-capitalism?) that governments exist only for the protection of the individual...and should stay out of the way other than that...but...
Personally, I can't think of a bigger phoney than a libertarian. No offense, but, you guys walk on sidewalks, drive on roads, go to schools, etc etc etc, utilize a vast variety of services paid for by tax dollars. In fact, you enjoy a life largely free from threats, natural or human, because you live in a society of social beings who live in a collective, and pay for inclusion in civilized society through taxes, and other compromises...
If you don't want to be part of the collective, that's your deal. But until you cease using publically provided services, and start living in a cave relying only on your cleverness to survive, I gotta think your political philosophy is all just bluster and bullshit. I mean, for crapping out loud.
No doubt, no political party has a lock on proper governance. But surely you can agree that this current batch of GOPers are as incompetent as they are corrupt. To the degree to which they are both, they are unparalleled in modern history...taking into account both republican and democratic administrations of the past 100 years or so.
Last edited: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 at 1:23:01 AM
Ahh, blow it out your ass stinky. Go ahead and vote your humanity down the drain in the name of "democracy".
This whole notion that we can't challenge our leaders for the sake of solidarity, I mean, insert your own essay.
as for the dems being "no better," I think you've found a good reason to pick a box of cereal. Hypothetical boondoggle and real boondoggle are brothers from another mother. So far, real boondoggle is the little fat one nobody wants to talk to. I don't know what that means.
I am curious why these stories didn't get picked up in the U.S. Media (anywhere....at least I didn't see them today, although I have been rather busy):
Visions of the Left Emerge in Venezuela
CARACAS, Venezuela - Dramatic differences emerged this week among Latin American leftists at Venezuela's World Social Forum, highlighting the region's diverse views.
About 1,000 marchers paraded through Caracas on Friday to call attention to causes ranging from land reform to anti-globalization. The crowd was dominated by supporters of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, but one small group calling itself Radical Critics held a sign accusing the Venezuelan president and other leaders of not taking a hard-enough stance against corporate capitalism.
Chavez has used a windfall in oil profits to funnel millions of dollars into programs for the poor while extending preferential oil deals to China, Argentina and other countries in an effort to line up alternative trade partners to the United States, the No. 1 buyer of Venezuelan oil.
Some radical leftists argued Chavez's government should stop working with transnational oil companies altogether.
"Real social fighters like us cannot be indifferent," said Maria Aparecida Barros, a 21-year-old Brazilian.
Yorlys Alvarez, a Venezuelan watching from the sidewalk, was visibly irritated by that message.
"It's wrong for them to come here and talk badly about my president," she said. "If they don't like Chavez, they should go home."
Some 70,000 people were signed up for the six-day forum, organizer Moises Lares said.
Many urged the rejection of "neoliberal" economic policy and the U.S. Plan for a Free Trade Area of the Americas. Some discussed cooperatives and Soviet-style communism, while others suggested the free market can be fair if guided by a social conscience.
Chavez called capitalism a global scourge on Friday and urged activists to do "battle" against U.S. Imperialism. His message drew thundering applause from thousands in attendance, but some said they were more concerned about other issues.
"The forum definitely has a pro-Chavez spin, and I think some of the issues, like women's rights, homosexuality and domestic violence, haven't received enough focus," said Ibrivria Fried, an 18-year-old student from the University of Vermont.
"A lot of people at the forum are careful about how they speak about Chavez because it's being hosted here," she said.
Hundreds held their own alternative forum, accusing the main event of straying from its freethinking leftist roots and serving as a propaganda tool for Chavez's government.
Enzo Tomatis, a 24-year-old Peruvian student activist, said he wholeheartedly supports Chavez's socialist and anti-imperialist ideology, but is uncomfortable with the former paratroop commander's military history.
"Chavez has great programs. The problem is that he's from the military," Tomatis said. "I'm against rule by a caudillo."
The main gathering, timed to coincide with the market-friendly World Economic Forum in Switzerland, has featured hundreds of panel discussions on subjects including poverty, U.S. Imperialism, Marxism and racism.
"It's great to hear the different points of view," said Jose Mejias, a 22-year-old Quechua Indian from Bolivia. "After all the debates, I still don't know whether there is one left, or two lefts or more. The only thing I know is there are many people concerned and working to change the world."
The forum came as leftist leaders appear on the rise in Latin America, capitalizing on disillusionment with old political classes seen as corrupt and incompetent.
Hundreds of young people camped out in parks, sharing food, music and at times marijuana, while some older, generally wealthier visitors dined on sushi at the Hilton.
Roselyne Clement, an activist from Montreal, was among those who camped in the drizzle and said she would never have stayed in a corporate hotel.
"For me, it's like a contradiction," she said.
"What it means to be of the left is in full debate in Latin America, and there is no consensus," said Margarita Lopez Maya, a Venezuelan historian who was among many speakers at the forum, which ends Sunday.
By JORGE RUEDA - Associated Press Writer
Sheehan Considers Challenging Feinstein
CARACAS, Venezuela - Cindy Sheehan, the peace activist who set up camp near President Bush's Texas ranch last summer, said Saturday she is considering running against Sen. Dianne Feinstein to protest what she called the California lawmaker's support for the war in Iraq.
"She voted for the war. She continues to vote for the funding. She won't call for an immediate withdrawal of the troops," Sheehan told The Associated Press in an interview while attending the World Social Forum in Venezuela along with thousands of other anti-war and anti-globalization activists.
"I think our senator needs to be held accountable for her support of George Bush and his war policies," said Sheehan, whose 24-year-old soldier son Casey was killed in Iraq in 2004.
Feinstein's campaign manager, Kam Kuwata, said the senator "doesn't support George Bush and his war policies."
"She has stated publicly on numerous occasions that she felt she was misled by the administration at the time of the vote," Kuwata said by phone from California.
But with troops committed, Feinstein believes immediate withdrawal is not a responsible option, Kuwata said.
"Senator Feinstein's position is, let's work toward quickly turning over the defense of Iraq to Iraqis so that we can bring the troops home as soon as possible," he said.
Sheehan accused Feinstein of being out of touch with Californians on the issue.
She said she would decide whether to run after talking with her three other adult children. The Democratic primary will be held in June, and candidates must submit their statements for the voter guide by Feb. 14.
Kuwata said Feinstein and Sheehan appear to have a fundamental disagreement over whether troops should be pulled out right now. "That's why they have elections, and if she decides to file (paperwork to run), so be it," he said.
Sheehan said running in the Democratic primary would help make a broader point.
"If I decided to run, I would have no illusions of winning, but it would bring attention to all the peace candidates in the country," she said.
Sheehan, 48, who lives in Berkeley, Calif., said she would head to Washington on Sunday for protests against Bush's State of the Union address on Monday, and then return to California to discuss her idea of running against Feinstein with her son and two daughters.
"I can't see _ if they think it's going to help peace _ that they would be opposed to me doing it," she said.
Sheehan and other peace activists met Saturday with Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, himself a critic of Bush and the Iraq war.
"He said, why don't I run for president?... I just laughed," she said.
By IAN JAMES - Associated Press Writer
Chavez Backs Sheehan Plan for Bush Protest
CARACAS, Venezuela - Cindy Sheehan, who gained international fame when she camped outside President Bush's ranch in an anti-war protest, plans to pitch her tent again, Venezuela's president said Sunday as he urged activists worldwide to help bring down "the U.S. Empire."
Hugo Chavez, an arm around Sheehan's shoulders, told a group of activists that she had told him "she is going to put up her tent again in front of Mr. Danger's ranch" in April.
In some of his strongest recent comments aimed at Washington, Chavez condemned the Bush administration and said his audience should work toward ending U.S. Dominance.
"Enough already with the imperialist aggression!" Chavez said, listing countries from Panama to Iraq where the U.S. Military has intervened. "Down with the U.S. Empire! It must be said, in the entire world: Down with the empire!"
Chavez said Sheehan had invited him to join her April protest at Bush's Texas ranch.
"Maybe I'll put up my tent also," Chavez said, to applause from an audience invited to his weekly broadcast on the final day of the World Social Forum, an annual gathering of anti-war and anti-globalization activists.
Sheehan, whose 24-year-old soldier son, Casey, was killed in Iraq in 2004, thanked Chavez for "supporting life and peace." She said earlier that she was impressed by his sincerity when they met privately on Saturday.
"He said, 'Why don't I run for president?'" she said. "I just laughed."
Sheehan, who lives in Berkeley, Calif., said Saturday that she is strongly considering challenging Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein because the lawmaker will not support calls to immediately bring the troops home.
Sheehan, 48, said running in the Democratic primary in June would help "bring attention to all the peace candidates in the country."
Sheehan, who was visiting Venezuela for the six-day forum, said she will decide whether to run after talking with her three adult children in California.
Sheehan accused Feinstein of being out of touch with Californians on the war in Iraq.
Feinstein's campaign manager, Kam Kuwata, said the senator did not support Bush and felt she had been misled by his administration. But with troops committed, Feinstein believes immediate withdrawal is unworkable, he said.
"Senator Feinstein's position is, 'Let's work toward quickly turning over the defense of Iraq to Iraqis so that we can bring the troops home as soon as possible,'" Kuwata said in an interview Saturday.
On Sunday, when Chavez passed the microphone to Sheehan on his show, she blamed Bush for the killings of innocents in Iraq.
Noting that the singer and activist Harry Belafonte recently called Bush "the greatest terrorist in the world" on Chavez's show, Sheehan said: "I agree with him."
Chavez said his government would help protest the war in Iraq by supporting a drive to gather petitions and delivering them to the U.S. Embassy in Caracas. Chavez, who before the war in Iraq had friendly relations with Saddam Hussein, has been a frequent and strident critic of the war.
By IAN JAMES - Associated Press Writer
@ Stinky, Flea, & maybe Tally
I dread both parties we have historically identified ourselves with have left us, my friends.
Earmarks are one example. Pandering to the extremes is another.
Stinky: Dems and Republicans are virtually the same. Take away maybe 3 major issues and I see one party. This country needs a strong third party. That is one reason why I voted green in 2000.
@BC : couldn't have said it better myself. ;)
Chef, both those articles were in my local rag, liberals that we are.
Where's the beef?
"@ Stinky, Flea, & maybe Tally
I dread both parties we have historically identified ourselves with have left us, my friends.
Earmarks are one example. Pandering to the extremes is another. "
Agreed. Always in the back of my mind as I rant against the obvious corruption/incompetence of the current GOP is the sorry state of the current dems...i must concede that it is a bit of an exercise in trading one really rotten crew for one much less rotten. But rotten none the less. I also agree with kkb that we need at least one more party. At least.
And BC: you have used my wife's rebuttal to my nonsense. Works every time!
Left, Right, Moderate, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Green if you voted for W and company are they what you really wanted? Are they what you expected?
If you get angry over lefty challenge for real discussion instead of slogans where does that anger come from? After all, W is in charge.
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Well since you asked Flea... I wanted security and we have not been "hit" since 9/11. Don't get me wrong, I am a father of three beautiful children and worry about them most. But, I also am not happy with W's work. Too much spending and oil prices out the wazoo. Im sure he's involved with that. We'll see what happens with his state of the union comments he made tonight. Stay tuned for that.
"oil prices low, profits high. Environment good. Be green, vote republican."
from the know your political parties handbook."
We have not been "hit" since 9/11
Oh? You mean like warrant-less searches, homeland security, health care up 70 percent in the last 5 years, gas up over 50 percent, and a few hundred billion wasted in Iraq. And that was only thinking about it for 2 seconds.
We haven't been hit at all? OK then. I want what your smoking :)
BTW, I do understand want to feel snug as a bug in the W rug, but I feel you dodged the questions. However, if you signed a W loyalty oath I'll respect your silence.
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Last edited: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 at 4:08:04 PM
@ Chief
Sheehan, just back from Caracas, where she praised Venezuela's anti-American president, Hugo Chavez...
.
Cindy Sheehan and Ramsey Clark gathered yesterday at the Busboys & Poets restaurant and bookshop at 14th and V streets NW for what they billed as a forum on "The Impeachment of President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney.
.
"Cindy for the Senate!"
called out moderator Kevin Zeese, a Ralph Nader acolyte. "It's important for us to stop thinking as Democrats and Republicans and break out of this two-party straitjacket," argued Zeese, a third-party candidate for Senate in Maryland.
.
After the participants made their urgent calls for impeachment proceedings, John Bruhns, identifying himself as an antiwar Iraq veteran, rose for a clarification. If Democrats don't first "gain control of one of the houses" of Congress, he wondered, "how else can we impeach this monster?"
... Bruhns, wearing a crew cut and business suit, disagreed. Somebody in the audience called for him to "shut up."
Last edited: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 at 9:20:15 PM
I'm with GQ....we need a lesbian President.
^ Sooooo original... 8o
So we're right back to slogans again eh?
You want to turn the topic back to comparing the current Cindy Sheehan et al to the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES the most powerful man in the world, the guy with the finger on the button?
I'd certainly agree that's mighty demeaning to one of their positions and raises the other.
Beyond slogans and why Sheehan et al is the new devil incarnate I still haven't had anyone step up to the plate on my questions:
Left, Right, Moderate, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Green if you voted for W and company are they what you really wanted? What did you expect?
{WalMart free for over 24 months!}
Last edited: Friday, February 03, 2006 at 3:30:50 PM
Left, Right, Moderate, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Green if you voted for W and company are they what you really wanted? What did you expect?
OK, I'll give you an opening. You foresaw the dangers of human-animal hybrids and knew W was da man. Right?
{WalMart free for over 24 months!}
I like how he talks...he sounds just like my uncle. He seems tough...like a cowboy. He doesn't seem like a prissy washington type. He ain't all fancy or high falutin.
I have a have a strong emotional response to the guy. I'd like to have a beer with him.
I don't like fancy talking smart guys. I prefer horse sense to book smarts. Clinton was book smart.
I want to feel proud of my country. He makes me feel proud. He doesn't complicate things. He's a christian. He speaks his mind.
He'll protect us from manimals. Manimals scare me. I hate that movie, "the island of dr moreau." I mean the original, not the one with that washed up marlon brando. He's a jack ass. But he was ok in the godfather.
He'll protect us from manimals. Manimals scare me.
Funniest post in a month.
^^
ROFLMAO!
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Are doomed to reelect republicans.
Listen to this republican government's preparations for a nuclear attack. Incompetence and corruption at every level.
http://homepage.mac.com/justinhallman/tt_archivery/60Minutes.mp3
Last edited: Monday, January 30, 2006 at 6:44:30 AM