What about the presidency?
Since most of you have already established that "any moron can be prez" why don't you run? Most of you qualify.

This way we can swap you for the mexicans... The people who want to make their lives better instead of complaining how everything isnt fair.

I'm not 18 yet...And I'd rather change the US than let it go on the way it is.

@ Cat-

I hope you aren't confusing criticism with bashing. One of the most patriotic things you can do is be critical of unjustices. God Bless the USA!

^ amen, brotha. God bless the First, more specifically!

Yeah, god bless our Bill of Rights. And just so you know, all you older people out there running the country, if you ever try to get rid of our B.O.R, I'll have to hunt you down and shave your cat.... :P

^(I cite my first amendment rights)

Last edited: Friday, June 02, 2006 at 11:07:19 PM

Bigger country more options to choose from. What to make of my life? More idiots to sell crappy products. *hint* See eg mcdonald, talk about superior idiotic *hint* Pretty much all countires have fought in past and there is no reason why they wouldn't fight in future if they have to.

Cat: you need to pull your head out of what ever orifice it's lodged in and realize that THIS ADMINISTRATION DOES NOT EQUATE TO THE U.S.A.

They are two separate entities. This administration just plain sucks by all accounts. Its sucking is unprecedented and historical. But this country has been great in the past and hopefully will be again one day when jackasses like the ones you support aren't running it into the ground.

I'm with LGM. :)

Stinkfingers makes a good point... XD

When someone dies, I blame the one who pulled the trigger. That's all there is.

We should all just shut up and move to Brazil. :)

@ cat
my comment was not aimed at you... It was more like a continuation of your post

Cat

I think its not the USA people "hate"
but maybe the monkey in charge
of the USA...

Peace

My solution: AMSTERDAM! :P

The most patriotic thing you can do is have the courage to criticize the current administration. If everyone blindly followed Bush then democracy would no longer exist here. Questioning authority is the root of democracy.

Yeah amsterdam! I love that country!

My wife and I were having a conversation, and I swear, I said almost the exact same sentence.
Bush[admin] is both embarassing and comical. More embarassing. America bashing? I'm embarassed to be American.
I hope the [admin] password is changed before this server crashes.
Before packing your hooka and Trojans, watch the movie "Hostel". Fiction, of course, but will make you think twice about moving to Amsterdam.

Last edited: Saturday, June 03, 2006 at 7:04:27 AM

Love it or leave it. Right?

Cat, you're young...I suspect. Print that first post of yours and put it somewhere in storage....go back and read it in ten years. I bet you'll be embarassed.

Last edited: Saturday, June 03, 2006 at 12:26:22 PM

America offers some of the best and of the worst to the world! It's a big powerful countries so it gets lots of flak. But don't get it wrong: everyone loves america and the best it stands for - freedom of expression, land of opportunities, its culture, its trade, its folks, its WW2 participation, etc. The world wants a good world citizen america, and not the dumb school bully america we've been served as of late.

Let's just say that the unilateralism and contempt of the Butch-Chimney administration is despicable on all account, be it the Iraq deception (Powell at the UN), the flaunting of Kyoto, the Arctic Refuge oil drilling, the 'Climate Change is a myth' thing, the illegal wiretaps, etc. Etc, etc.

None of the America critics are doing a wholesale condemnation of America: it usually is targeted at its foreign policy.In fact under the Clinton years America had a much broader support in its policies.

My reaction in the Memorial thread was caused by my perception that these soldiers are dying and killing in vain and even criminally since your country is illegally occupying Afghanistan and Iraq. What part of illegal you don't understand? But even this is not the sum of America; it's a dark hour in its long history.

Like I posted there (and subsequently deleted) if your country really wants to honor the memory of the fallen you should jail your leadership - or send them rebuilding villages they decided to bomb.

As a Canadian, I think America is great.
I just hate anything directly related to, effecting, or because of it. :)

I kid, I kid.

CAT said..."@stinkfingers: the crank: Why get rude? How do you know who I support , it's sure not who you are talking about.
The reason this thread was created was in response to the stupid posts in the thread about Memorial day.
And blaming the soldiers for the war in Iraq. And them making decisions that can cost them thier lives. And how no war ever saved our fredoms."

Why get rude? Why not? If you are going to trot out the "america: love it or leave" it theme in response to criticism of this administration and its misadventures, I figure I get to make the observation that you have your head in your butt. Your criticism is the same one used against anti-war demonstrators during the viet nam war. It's just as false and desperate now as it was then.

Let me make something clear to you dolts on the right: you don't own the flag, and you don't own the keys to the kingdom. Fierce partisan support of neo-fascists government does not make you all patriots. It makes you useful idiots. Part of what makes america great is that we don't all of us suck up to power out of a vague and general fear of JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING. Nut up, conservative cowards. Quit being such pansies. You think your blustery support of these corrupt turds in DC proves that you are worthy americans? It just proves you aren't worthy of democracy. Want me to leave because I have higher standards in mind when I consider our policy and politicians? Make me, brown shirt.

America, the home of the brave? Not judging by the right it isn't...love it or leave it you say. Aka: accept it as it is, or piss off. No thanks. I choose to continue to demand that america always strive to do better, for its citizens, and for eveyone else it impacts.

"All I am saying is it's not the people thats stationed there fault and they have to do what they think is the right thing at the moment."
no shit. Who is saying that it is? That's a no brainer. Brave stance there.

No, but really. "Wait why are you still here? You hate the U.S. So much" and all that. You said that. Revise it if you like, your lead post is just another weak iteration of "america: love it or leave it." such crap has always been used to attempt to limit criticism.

"You have no idea what it's like there.
All you can do is sit at your computer and rant.
Go do something about it."

Apropos of nothing at all.

If that isn't "love it or leave it" I don't know what is...
if that isn't what you meant, you need to edit your lead post, because no sane or intelligent person can read that in the way you say you intended it to be read. I suspect that you don't like being called on your BS. Your lead post is not ambiguous...it lends itself to the impression I was left with.

And then there is the title too...TO ALL THE U.S.A. BASHERS...

Don't be a jackass. I called you on your BS, and you are playing dumb. Nowhere in your title or lead post do you mention US troops or people blaming them for anything. Its just plain ol' stupid ol' "love it or leave it."

Ya know, you could just edit your posts, instead of triple posting...

You want a piece of this?

Hilarious! A few posts up you denied this, and now you are back to it? Makes my job easier. I'll just quote what I said above:

Love it or leave it my ass! As though those were the only two choices....like trying to change it isn't an option! This country is constantly evolving, and sometimes it's even for the better. I would argue that it has recently changed for the worse because republicans in the 90s (and way before this) decided that they didn't really love the way things were going here and rather than "leave it" they decided to change it.

See there? Love it, leave it, OR CHANGE IT!

Btw: don't you just love what the republicans have done with the place? Coruption, falling international status, a war without end, tax cuts for the rich and record deficits...and that's just the top of the list!

What typically happens via the right wing however, is when they get things cozy for themselves they yell AMERICA!: LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT! As though they could freeze the hands of time. Conservatives have always feared change, the kind of change they can't control...

But because life is change, they are stuck in a losing battle. No matter to them, because they like battles too...especially futile ones.

Last edited: Sunday, June 04, 2006 at 9:29:59 PM

Well cat, why else say "love it or leave it"? Every other time such a thing has been said, it is been by some conservative dolt attempting to quell criticism of a conservative government.

"Love it or leave it" is a defense of bush and his cronies.

Phew. Stink, I admire and sometimes marvel at your perseverance. Maybe I should have posted the RFK excerpts from his first major speech against the war (as a presidential candidate) and against the Administration on this thread instead of starting another one. I suspect that many of the youger participants in these discussions are for the first time in their lives being challenged to come up with their own opinions about these current social and political issues. For encouraging them to think more deeply with a broader awareness, to question authority and to examine why their opinions are what they are, I think they should each send you a dollar. :)

:)
but what you might think is perseverance, maybe more accurately described as "lack of imagination" and nothing better to do at the time.

@ Cat: Way to go! These idiots have no clue whats with your point.

@ Stink: GOD you stink. When are you going to get with it. Are 15 or unemployed? Get a frickin life!!! :P KKB

^ Lololol. Good God, that's so perfect. You are almost too good to be true. I'm sure I'm not the only one who once held out hope for your capacity to grow. Oh, well.

Ever find the time or the inclination to read Einstein's essays in humanism? It's a start.

^^ again, nothing at all to add to the discussion but a fleeting opinion.

KKB apparently has insights into the nuances of cat's coopting right wing slogans for unknown purposes...for the rest of us, it remains a mystery.
hey kkb, I should get a life? You should get another neuron. That would give you two by my count. Feel free to challenge what I write, turd. But that weak ass crap just makes you look semi-literate.

"get another neuron"...LOL

Note KKB's smile it looks like that --> :P SO *maybe* he was joking? Only he can tell.

Please tell me where replacement neurons can be obtained. I damaged a large percent of mine at Woodstock '94.

I personally strive to be semi-literate. KKB can I borrow your alleged remaining neuron?

I'd never burn a flag. I'd never diss "the office" of the President.

But free speech for/against the policies of the men who hold the position is the right of all citizens.

America doesn't consist of a bunch of sheep in agreement.

America was founded by bold people willing to take a stand against what is wrong and to stand, and fight and die for what is right.

These same genes and attitudes are present on both side of the current political spectrum. ( and by spectrum I mean the blackand white polarization we currently have)

What was meant to be a country run by chosen, men from all walks of life, is now a country run by lobbyists for special interests, large corporations, and powerful wealthy families made rich in the process. That's something I will not be a cheerleader for...

America Then > America Now.

Last edited: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 at 7:05:14 PM

Sniper,

I read your post ^, and assume your inequality should be as follows-

America then > America now

It follows logically from your mention of special interests and wealth getting more power.

Unless you meant to say America then is less than America now...

Illegal occupation of Afghanistan? If any country ever needed occupied it was Afghanistan. Toss in Somalia too.

Discussions about the illegal occupation of Iraq are warranted, not Afghanistan. There was and is a real purpose for being in Afghanistan. Hugo, I'm sorry I always comment on your points, but you're just wrong a lot. XD

Good post sniper. And I agree with rogue, at least as far as afghanistan is concerned...(not about hugglestein being wrong alot though).

^^ heh Rogue we agreed a long time ago to disagree :)

Well, as a northern neighbor to the US I glad to see that there is always open discussion in free nations. Argument can be good, as Monica stated, it can serve as start to a better future.