People have a way of screwing around with holidays over the years. Look at Valentines Day? I mean what the heck? The same thing is happening with Christmas. First it's about the day Jesus, our savior, was born. Then its about Santa Claus giving out gifts to crappy kids who act good during the 5 days before Christmas. Now Jesus is just that guy some guilty so-called "Christians" go to church to praise every 2 days of the year, and half of them fall to sleep before the first "PRAISE THE LORD!" Ever wonder why Christmas is such a popular holiday? Nope, it’s not about giving thanks to Jesus for saving our ass. It's all about the gifts now. You want proof? Go watch your television commercials for 4 minutes, I bet you wont see one word said about 'Jesus', or 'God'.

And to you pagans, if you don't want to celebrate a holiday where you give thanks to God, but instead you just want to get gifts then you need a new title. That’s just plain disrespectful to celebrate Jesus' birthday and not even acknowledge him for what he’s done. And to all the so-called religious folks out there, I'd like to see you celebrate one Christmas where getting the newest, coolest gift isn’t the priority. I'd like to see one Christmas where everyone got down on their knees and just thanks the Lord for saving our idiotic souls from hell. Is that so hard?

Good points made. Many people, including non-Christians, celebrate Christmas, just for getting off work/school and getting presents. Never really made sense to me why it's done, because in my house, we do acknowledge the true reason for Christmas, although we still get/give presents.

Nice thought, but it's never going to happen. People are too corrupt and non-religious these days to give a cr*p, overall. :( Although, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to do that everyday, if you get my meaning. :)

@az - I can see your point, but this probably isn't the right forum to express your frustrations since people of faith are in the minority around here. There's also something to be said for acknowledging that we're all experiencing differing levels of personal development on our respective Christian journeys and bearing with those whom we feel may have a more secular or carnal view of the season may better exemplify the patience and compassion of the holiday.

^^^ I have to say that is very disturbing on many levels. Other faiths and other races? Have different holidays this time of the year. Hanukkah and Kwanzaa among others. I, as a Buddhist (pagan by your definition it seems), don't celebrate Christmas. Yet you lump us as one, all in violation of the spirit of Christmas.

As for the holiday itself, you are aware that Jesus was not born 12/25? That day and all its traditions itself is an amalgamation of many cultural celebrations. Christianity has evolved over time and has incorporated aspects of now defunct cultures into Christmas traditions. Don't make it out to be a "Christian" holiday that the pagans and non-believers are corrupting.

All holidays mean different things to different people. For you to demand that "pagans get their own holiday or participate the way you feel is appropriate" is disturbingly non-Christian perspective of a joyous holiday.

As for the "lacking religious" people, it seems that you are standing in judgment of your fellow man. Apparently your house is so clean as to judge others without fear of accusations of hypocrisy. You must be perfect.

Christmas, for me at least, is meant to bring joy into people's hearts. I enjoy the giving more than the getting. Yes, I am in debt right now from buying presents for my friends. Only by about 20 buck, though :P For me, as long as people KNOW why we are celebrating it, that is enough for me. Church is fun, and my family always goes the night before. Most of the kids don't epriciate what it means. Whe I was 5 I always thought of it as the last roadblock before the next day. Now Iactually enjoy hearing the story, singing the songs, and somply knowing. But that isn't for everyone. Remember, a lot of the kids are the only ones getting truly massive amounts of presents. It is the parents who enjoy giving the gifts to their kids. And when the kids get old enough to know why, I hope they get the same joy out of giving as the Parents do. Just my look on things.

Az im totally with you... Just one thing though....

Constantine (the Roman Emperor who decided the day of Christmas, and put the bible together etc..) was infact a Pagan... The only reason he turned to Christianity was to stop Rome from being torn apart because Christians were on the rise.

Not trying to rain down your parade, because what your saying is so true.. Just thought id say that, since you mentioned about Pagans not acknowledging the birth of Christ.

Believe it or not I dont celebrate christmas im jehovas witness...plz dont make fun of me thats my religion :)