A few frustrations from recent events in our league. These are my observations and not those of my team. I dont feel like asking my team captain to make an official complaint, so I will just voice them here. I do not expect any action from the league. It just needs to be said.

1. PiP acquired by TDR. According to the rules, a player must be in the draft pool. Then they may be replaced by the commish upon speaking with team captains. Not only did I never see PiP in the draft pool listings, my team captain was not included in the decision to allow this player to be acquired. Is there more to this than what is evident?

2. Game 1 this week started by 5 TDR blasting 3 DN while the other 2 of us were across the map waiting for the GAME ON signal. An early 3-1 lead established. Hrmmm.

3. TDR lag issues attempted to be addressed in between game 1-2 when our team complained to our captain. Two players on the team totally froze and had to relog. Since this was our second game vs. TDR with the same laggy results, something amiss perhaps? My guess is that voice chat being used. While not illegal, it certainly allows the "lag shield" and "jumping" tanks for those using it. Things get difficult when appearing to blast a light with 12+ shots and not getting a kill. Of course, the TDR captain would not answer my questions about if they used chat. Perhaps he would entertain my question here to satisify my curiousity?

4. Committing from killing teammates? I did not see this happen during our game, but I was told that TDR was doing this to save points. No accusation from me, just something passed along.

So, I have gotten it off of my chest. These are my thoughts and opinions.

Last edited: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 at 8:26:37 PM

Wow,

Anywho it was a good game

Game on signal was given by both side before shooting started,

Lag was affecting us as well but we have learned from past seasons to just deal with it As for your question , I did not see it but would have answered and yes we do use voice when it does not cause lag , some games we have dropped it because of lag and poor fire rate

Pip was assigned to rats because loss of Crow, suriname, ancient ones bad attendance, blitz has gone missing and get somes work schedule basically we were down to a core of 4 pip was offered to us because POC was overbooked , we did not ask but was much appreciated.

Finally team killing? Where are you getting this from?
, team killing has no benifit scorewise and qualifies as an immediate suspension as a founding member of this league I would boot anyone doing this on my team or any other team.

Game on signal was NOT given in the first game. It WAS given in the second game.

Lag certainly was affecting you and we mentioned it between games. Did you continue to use chat after it was talked about? It certainly affected having to light up your teams tanks with more hits than necessary for a kill. Maybe next league, they will ban the chat.

Im happy that you got PiP to help your team, but according to the league rules, it was not done legit. Sorry.

Im not going to name who said that TDR was team killing. If they want to come forward with what they claimed to have seen, then they can do on their own.

@fatchick

1. See section PLAYER REPLACEMENT in rules. TDR lost their top level draft pick MUCH EARLIER in the season and other succesive players who have not shown up to be a part of the team. They were down to 6 players on the roster. In contrast, your team has a pool of 8 players (excluding the captains) to field a team. I have given players in the player pool to other teams this season (on 3 occassions) in the same manner as indictaed by the rules. The rules state that "final discretion for the league player placement is assigned to the commissioner." Lep has been asking for a player for weeks. The roster and player placement announcement about PIPS placement on TDR was on the forum prior to gametime (actually on Monday). For the sake of clarity, the commissioner does not need to get the permission from the captains forum to replace players lost due to attendance issues or drops from the league, just a notification via email or on the forums. Normally, I attempt to have rosters set by Monday if there are going to be changes. (in other words, no Tuesday night player adds) IF hawk was bothered by this, then I am sorry. He can contact me to discuss it further.

2. If this is the case, Hawk or captain designate in game needed to come forward and work this out with Lep and I, if not immediately in the game when it happened. I'm sure a score adjustment COULD have been made if presented by the captain immediately (I have done this on two occasions in prior seasons with a captain). If there is still an issue, Hawk will need to bring it to the captains forum.

3. Dash has answered this question on a technical level. If he would like, he can add his thoughts to the mix. This has been discussed and discussed over and over. The only thing I can say here is that the captain needed to initiate a server change discussion with the opposing captain and I feel sure it would have been considered (See rules: LAG/CONNECTION Issues) The issues revolving around voice being used will be revisited at the conclusion of Season 4.0.

4. ON all TBML game servers, team killing DEDUCTS a point from your score - its built into the MODIFICATIONS that dash created. If it was done by mistake or on purpose, it did not benefit anyone, namely TDR. In general, accusing another team of team killing is "matches and gasoline," and insinuates cheating has taken place. Unless there is proof or a captain wishes to make a complaint, then these type of accusations remain baseless and are not productive for the league.

Hope this helps.

Last edited: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 at 4:45:15 AM

As a non league member who observed the entire match between TDR and DN (as in I watched another player playing on a computer), I can state without hesitation that prior to Game 1 - "Game on" was confirmed by parties to both teams (this after it was repeatedly stated that the game would start after the next restart).
Indeed members of both teams were exchanging fire for a while before FC asked "is Game on?".

I also found it curious that while in the game server in the pre-game shoot around FC expressed indignation that other players would shoot FC's tank. At one point even threatening to "lag out the game", if they kept it up.

Such statements did not seem very sporting to me, Ah but I am but a simple scrummer, ignorant in the ways of the Battlemoders:)

Not meaning to fan flames, just clarify.....

Thanks for clarifying my statement even further, Baba. PRIOR to the game, we discussed that would begin on next restart. Of course, all games are set on restarts and still require a "game on" to be announced by both team's captains. (very clearly written in the league rules) Which as far as I could see, was never said. Amazing that the entire TDR was already gathered as a group and firing. Perhaps I was the last player to log in? Shots were being fired as I was desecnding into the playing field. I watched for a second and looked at my radar and then asked if the game was on. At which point I joined my team across the map already down 2 points.

As for the "pregame shoot around"...I asked numerous times to be left alone since we were not playing yet. Yet TDR continually shot at me, as well as bonehead DOC on my team - hes excused. Not only was TDR late to the game, but we had to wait for a "shoot around"? Nonsense. Yes, I did say that I would lag things out. But then again, TDR already did that so my threat made out of frustration because of TDR "unsportsmanlike" conduct prior to the game was justified. Yes, even you Lep had to get in a clip of shots as the timer expired prior to the game. I apologize for my statement made out of frustration. What is your explaination?

Supra, I appreciate you answering my post, as you have no obligation to do so since I am not a captain. I think that the rules are misleading that they even mention that the captain's involvement to agree to new players. If the commish can do it without their discretion, why are they even mentioned? I know that PiP was added to TDR prior to Tuesday as I read the announcement. If Lep was asking for "weeks" why did the commish have to make a solo decision to add a player? Finally, if Joe was in the replacement pool the same day that PiP left, and Lep has been asking for replacements for weeks, why is Joe STILL in the replacement pool?

As for the modifications, that must be new in the last week or a lot of us just didnt realize it was implimented. I believe a few of my area affect bombs in previous weeks killed both a teammate and opponent and it did not count against us. Perhaps I just didnt see the score change then. But then again, why would the rules specifically state that it is against the rules "to prevent a kill or gain advantage" when referred to team killing?

Thanks for letting me vent and have some particulars answered. I appreciate your input.

PiP must have done pretty damn well for all this fuss....

Gj PiP!!!

BTW I think that if you team kill your personal stays the same, your teammate whom you killed loses a personal point, and the team points for both teams stays the same....however the team killing does benefit your team because the other team wont get the point for the kill.......your team gaining nothing and the opponents losing something is good for you :)

Same with suicide after the last person who shot you is dead and respawned. You lose a point but the team points are unaffected and the other team cant get an easy kill....

Both are forbidden in the TBML rules because its unsportsmanlike conduct

B

Hi FC
A little history on PIP
She was in POC but had to take a leave of absence due to the fact
that her brother wrecked her computer
This was announced in the early part of the season
When she came back she asked if there was still a need or room for her
So technically she wasn't a new entry but a returning member of TBML
As for as the lag issue and voice chat, my 2 cents is that it is a cheat
Unless everyone has it and it NEVER effects performance then it
doesn't belong
Roo

Thanks Rooster, I did read the postings for the league and saw PiP's absence. It was the same day that Joe signed up for the reserve pool. Im wondering if my last post will be answered. Guess we will see....

@chick

I dont know that the rules are misleading. Mainly, we limit captains recruiting players from "the general" game play day to day. We used to see captains add players and recruit them without team warnings. We do not do this now, and alert other captains to player additions, limit those additions to attendance or drop issues, and when an extremely good player is involved get the vote from the captains (i.e. Infinite Monkey's placement; Stan's placement) which happened with other players this season.

Whereas league parity was concerned, PIP was a quality player available for TDR. The pool is not meant to be doled out in a particular order, nor does a captain have to take a player in reserve (just as in PSL). Just because players are in the pool does not necessarily mean they are desired to be added to a team. The "weeks" should lead you to conclude that there was no interest in the current pool players by TDR, nor was there confidence by the commish to correct attendance problems they were having by adding this particular player. PIP's availability to TDR was discussed and granted on the preceding weekend.

The team kill rule is there to be absolutely clear about the position of the league, as we have had problems in the past (of which I was involved). The DEDUCTION modifications are not new. They were implemented last season. I hope this helps.

Last edited: Friday, March 04, 2005 at 4:23:45 AM

That sound's like our match. I would unload two clips at a smoking tank, hit it a couple times but not see the incoming shots, and get waxed (the tank was REALLY smoking, none of that puffing stuff). Sometimes I would unload a clip and not really see where the shot's went, I mean I would see some but not all, kinda like I was shooting tracers. There was just general weirdness like that throughout the match and I think I've played enough to know "lag" from "weird".

Sil

Last edited: Friday, March 04, 2005 at 4:00:00 PM

I feel loved.

@pip

LOL - I hear ya

I guess I will have to play another game in league mode to notice the deductions for team killing. If it works, then why the rules against it? Secondly, according to your logic of the reserve pool, any player can make up an excuse, come back a week later and be picked up by a team that feels like it? I just think its silly not to have a full captain vote if thats what the rules imply. No biggie, just curious and Ive enjoyed auditing the league rules AS WRITTEN, not as implied. Thanks for listening.

I'm with you fatchick... The next time we play we'll have to kill each other to see if we drop points. I've never seen that happen in a match.

@chick

Hardly an audit. LOL

No need to wait until next game, just head over to dash bash and test it. Your player point will be removed, AS WELL as your team point you just earned for team killing someone.

Aside from that, I hope you find your peace with the rules.... As we are beginning to enter redundancy on these issues. I guess if it was truly "NO BIGGIE," as you say, you wouldnt have posted anything at all on the matter. I think we all know that IT WAS a "biggie" for you, hence the repeated posts by both of us - ad nauseum. I've tried to help answer and clarify. I got nothing else for you at this point. Good luck!

Last edited: Sunday, March 06, 2005 at 3:02:26 PM

Thanks for your help by replying and even more thanks for the sarcasm in your last post. I guess using "audit" was a poor term since I have no offical status in the league. My concerns became redundant for a failure to be appropriately answered. Im sorry you feel my concerns and what I feel are valid points of view are ridiculous by the "ad nauseam" comment. Perhaps I will apply for a league captain position next season so I can assist with the imperfections in league rules and prevent possible collusion. My final note, this leagues rules are not precise and require revision. Good luck to you.

@ supra

Please forgive my ignorance, but on league night does everyone play on dash's server?

Sil

@chick
I was being funny! Sorry to offend. It is ad nauseum to me. Last try: The commish CAN get a captains vote "in matters where it is necessary." I serve to moderate and bring agenda items before captains. Captains may brrng agenda items to the forum of captains if they wish. The exclusion to this is player replacement. I thought I was clear about that issue above. The vote REQUIRED from captains are on issues that involve removing, suspending or banning a player. The hypothetical player pool scenario above is really not possible. Captains would not allow it (they would cry unfair), nor would the commish. My last comment is that the rules are not perfect, and they are not static. This is revision four. I'm not sure that your issues are that problematic, but I'm sure that we can bring them to the table at the conclusion of the season for review. Collusion? Give me a break..

@silb
servers are mostly rooster and dash - both have this feature since season three.

Last edited: Sunday, March 06, 2005 at 4:31:58 PM