OK, I just want someone to explain this to me. Im not interested in the right or wrong of it, but the why.

A co-worker's sister just got married. The brides dressed in black pants suits. The thing is one has the butch, cropped hairstyle while the other (who's carrying twins) has long hair. The manly girl wears her pants with a long crotch. The other wears makeup. They seem to be filling the male and female roles of a couple.

That's what I don't understand. It would seem that it you loved someone of the same sex youd want them to act like the same sex. If I were a gay man I'd think Id want a masculine gay man to be my mate, not a feminine guy. If a woman loves another woman, isnt that what she wants, a woman instead of a man?

This puzzles me. :o

OK I really dont give a flyin crap why, all I know is that same-sex marriages are totally screwed up. I mean if God wanted us to marry the same sex, he wouldnt have given man his thing and woman hers (cant say the 2 words here, there are little kids around). So really I dont understand the mentality behind wanting to be gay, so I cant really answer this question (neither do I really wanna know) %)

Are you equally puzzled when a man chooses to marry a woman who is a professional body builder?

Last edited: Thursday, July 29, 2004 at 2:37:00 PM

I know I am

(In my best Captain Kirk "struggling for words" impression)

Must....
...

Not.....

....

Reply......... :)

Last edited: Thursday, July 29, 2004 at 6:56:36 PM

Oh you'll reply... They all reply

TG, surely you can reply without attacking my views...right? I mean, I've answered your posts that were meant just to gather info without attacking you.

@44 - Just because a woman lifts weights doesn't make her manly.

Rabby.... I wasn't being negative... I was being goofy.... It has nothing to do with you, it has more to do with me wondering if I feel like stepping in this door again. Being as I am the only openly gay member of this community, these threads turn into heated debates featuring:

Me vs the closed minded hicks
Me vs the closed minded religious freaks
Me vs the those who are open minded but still against gays

Throw in a smattering of those who are in defense of peoples choices,
add a few sprinkles of those who are against gays unless you are talking about two playboy model lipstick lesbians,
and you have the recipe for this thread.

These threads force me onto an emotional roller coaster ride. I will not be able to change anyones mind if they are closed minded, I don't need to change the minds of those who are open minded, so the only thing that happens is I get pulled through the wringer and hung out to dry. I become the poster girl for the gay community, but the downside is that poster has a bulls-eye on it for the degenerates and I end up being attacked in this forum, in game-chat, and most obnoxiously in disgusting emails.

It happens every time.

This is a perfect example of the kind of statements that make me crazy in these threads.

Arggghhh.... I feel myself being pulled in.....

[Back to my best Captain Kirk struggling against an invisible force]

...got......
........to........
...............get................
..........................out!...............

Last edited: Thursday, July 29, 2004 at 5:54:44 PM

Wanting to be gay?
who said that.
do you want to be straight?

@Rabban
I thought you were seeking an "explanation" not advancing "views".
Heh, the bait in this thread seems very transparent to me.

@ scotty et al
A very poignant and insightful explanation of God's views.
History (and present day) shows us many examples of theological justifications of racism and bigotry. Genocide, war, systematic oppression of races and groups of people have all been enacted under the banner of "God's will".
Indeed marriage between people of different races was illegal until fairly recently in this country.
I raise this not as a rebuke of religon per se, but as a warning to be wary of self appointed "messengers" of God.

As someone happily involved in and committed to what some might view as a "non-traditional" marriage I suppose I take this topic rather personally.

Tally you beat me to it. I find it amazing how the close minded folks actually still believe people wake up one day and say "I think I'm going to be gay!" 8o

So much for Rabban's wanting an informative, flame-free thread... :S

Rabby, you still have the misconception that being gay means "Self-Love" i.e. That a gay person really wants a reflection for a mate. You have said this to me many times.... I think you need to change your mindset on this because it clouds your ability to see what is going on here.

That said, Love is Love. You don't choose to fall in love with one type of person or another, it just happens. Granted, you may have filters that make it more difficult to fall for one type or another, but still, love happens when you least expect it.

I know nothing about your wife, but for analogy sake, let's say she is heavy set. You may not have been looking for a plump woman to marry, you may have been looking for a skinny blonde, but you fell in love with a plump brunette. Love is love and you can't choose who you fall in love with... It just happens.

I personally do not like masculine women, (nor do I like flaming-gay men) doesn't do a thing for me. I have always gravitated to feminine women. I know plenty of same-sex relationships where both women are butch, or both women are lovely, or one is the "man" and one is the "woman", etc....

As a matter of fact YOU know of plenty of hetero relationships where the woman has short hair, the woman wears pants, the woman is masculine, etc.... This is just as common in hetero relationships. How about military relationships? Those women not only have butch hair, masculine bodies, wear fatigues and army boots, they are also trained to kill you.... (lol)

How about race? Know any interracial couples?

It is all about Love, it is about who you are as a person, and it is about who you are comfortable with. No secret club handshakes, no Team Spirit, just falling in love with a person instead of a gender.

Nice try TMO, but in fact most of the responses here which you claim are "flaming" are more in response to Scotty's bigoted comments, not in response to Rabban's question. I actually commend Rabban for attempting to frame his question in the least offensive manner he could.
As for attempting to understand gays or their feelings and attitudes, I'm not sure anyone that's straight could ever do that. You simply can't walk in their shoes or feel what they feel. The best we can do is accept them for who they are and not judge them because they're different. It's a difficult thing not to judge others, and no-one is perfect at that for sure. But maybe it's something we should aspire to do.

So, being a straight man, I couldn't answer Rabban's question, and I'm not judging him for asking it. However, I don't know that we'll ever fully understand it.

Hiya OM!!!
_{how is it going? I haven't talked to you in a long time... Hope things are great:)}

Let me ask you.... Do you understand Falling in Love? If your answer is Yes, then you understand things just fine.
:)

@OM - sorry, I wasn't trying to say you were flaming (err... You know what I mean). I am tired and a bit grumpy this afternoon (being away on a business trip over my birthday ain't no fun), so I'm sure I'm tending to be a bit short in my responses. As I had just read the thread for the first time, I was talking about the entire thread, not any posts in particular. With the exception of Rabban's initial question, most of the primary posts in this thread were hostile in nature, which usually just incites more hostility, which in turn incites more, and so on, until the entire thing goes up in flames.

But it's my fault for having a poorly phrased post, rather than you mis-interpreting me. Your interpretation was perfectly reasonable given the rest of the thread. Sorry. :S

Last edited: Thursday, July 29, 2004 at 7:01:21 PM

Uh oh!

TG, you are freakin' psychic! As a matter of fact, the Mrs and I shared a class in college. At the time, I was sitting with Miss WV, a petite, 5 foot nothing blonde who was really nice and sweet. But then one day, I bumped into my "plump brunette", dropping the books and the rest is history. ;)

@Baba - I think I get what you're inferring, but its not my intent. TG mostly understands where I'm at on this topic, so I didn't want her to start going after that per se, but to help me understand what's going on in the relationship I mentioned. I have also been involved in an interacial relationship of sorts and I've known a few couples as well, so please don't lump me in with the folks who have given you a hard time. :)

@all - I am sorry that Scotty's response is the first.

@Baba
look man I agree with ya on some points, but im a christian, so that's all I believe (and if one of you say that christians are hiding and need to open up to other possibilites ill smack ya ;) *jk*).
@44
if I married a woman like that there are 3 good points:

#1 : Really Strong = More energy/strength to help around house (not to mention more energy for bedtime ;) )

#2 : Builder = Good money to help out so there is no fighting/quarreling about money

#3 : Really Strong does not equal manly, but my opinion is a woman can do anything she feels that she can do, you have to remember the saying: B.I.T.C.H. = Babe In Total Control of Herself

I have the utmost respect for women and I'm one of those guyz that says the girls need AS MUCH POWER as possible

(WE NEED A WOMAN PRESIDENT, CAN I HEAR AN AMEN TO THAT!!!!!!!!!?????????????)

XD

Hey TMO, no worries dude. I actually didn't think you meant that comment just for me. I agree that these threads have a tendency to go up in flames rather quick. However, I kind of disagree that there is major hostility in most of the comments, so far at least. Let's hope it stays that way.

Sorry about your grumpiness. :)

Bab. Point well-taken. A quickly-blurred line.

Wait is tank girl gay? Cause this is wat its making me think and if she is gay im getting freaked out 8o

Okay, I usually stay clear of most threads like this simply because I don't venture into these forums enough to be able to defend my comments if for some reason they are taken the wrong way, but....

I have recent personal experience that kinda fits into this topic...

My recent exgirlfriend and I had more differences between us then I ever thought I would have in a relationship. She was 11 years older than me, of a different race, and had been in a lesbian relationship for about 8 years before we dated. Each of those things could have potentially been an issue to us or others around us, yet it never was. She never imagined being with someone like me and I never planned on being with someone like her, but when we met we immediately fell in love.
She had similar views as TG...

She fell in love with her exgirlfriend simply for the person she was, not for her gender. The same when we met... She fell in love with me because of who I am. Although I do not personally feel, nor want to feel that kind of gender indifference when finding a mate, I can understand it.

There are only two people that you can ever no absolutely for sure are lying: yourself, and this "god's will" cat.

How many gay men are the masculine type?

B

OMG... That's a classic. We need to start another "Quote of the Day" thread. Seriously.. That just made my day :P

I'm not gay, so I'm not sure I can really properly answer this question, but my best guess is that some people are attracted to masculine people and some are attracted to feminine people, and that is true regardless of whether they're gay or straight. I myself see no particular reason why one couldn't be attracted to men and attracted to femininity or attracted to women and attracted to masculinity- not as long as there are feminine men and masculine women. Surely feminine and masculine have different meanings than female and male? If feminine was the same as female, Rabban, and you're attracted to females, wouldn't the logic follow that you would be attracted to feminine males? But you aren't. Therefore if masculine was the same as male, and the feminine woman in the example couple is attracted to masculinity, it does not necessarily follow that the woman is attracted to masculine males.

In a way, Rabban, you answered your own question:

So... You're attracted to females, not necessarily femininity.

Just apply that to the feminine woman:

She's attracted to females, not necessarily femininity.

Being gay means being attracted to the same sex... It does not mean attracted to the same personality.

If I were a gay man I'd be all over myself.
O wait...

@(da)zoltar
Yup, I am gay... Although I am actually Bi-sexual. I am in a wonderful relationship with a woman named Caryn and have been for quite a while now.

A good definition for Bi-Sexual = "Love, Regardless of Gender". Sex is great either way, each with pros and cons.... But the main thing is falling in love with the PERSON, not the genitalia.

:)
K8

Last edited: Thursday, July 29, 2004 at 10:27:02 PM

Rabban the answers you are seeking are looking straight at you, LOVE. It is one of the few things in life that are somehow unexplainable. While it has always been a mystery as to why in a gay couple you have a more dominant partner (manly), in lesbians, then again in normal heterosexual couples, there is always a dominant person. While we all like to think that the man is the dominant, I am almost 100% certain, than in any given family unit, it is the wife that mostly looks after the finances, it is also the wife that looks to wards the future, and directs to some extend, the path of the family. While it is no doubt that in a married couple in a high percentage of families the man is the main income earner, as they say, behind every man is a good woman.

I know a fair number of homosexual couples, and you can always tell the more dominant, and in most of the lesbian couples, the dominant person tends to be a more butch in their manner. I know some butch women, who would be good looking enough to walk the fashion cat walks of this planet.

@ Bolo

Lol
One could probably venture into any major sports locker room and not have the gaydar go off...

@ TG
All I can say is," TG I admire you for talking in here do to some peoples views in life!" That is all I'm going to say on this topic
---------hmmmmmm-----------
OK just incase there are some questions on my point of view. I am not gay or bi-sexual, if you are in love, thats all that should matter ! B)

I think Asterisk is giving me a pretty good answer. :)

There is one thing here I think I'm picking up on and I hope its not offensive. If I take TG's definition of love as the key, then love doesn't really have anything to do with gender at all. In fact, straight, gay or bi are all labels we're created, which are not governed by our biology, but our choices.

TG's been in a male/female relationship, but she was open to a female/female relationship and so she's in one. Its plausable that if she would break up with Caryn, she could fall in love with another man or another woman. I suppose it would depend on who she met first and who gave her the most chocolate. ;)

I may be attracted to a man and want to develop a relationship with him, but I'm not open to having a love relationship with him. Its not a matter of my biology, but who I choose to love as a mate.

Some men may only be open to loving other men, the same with women. I still hold that it is a choice, that we're not totally controlled by our passions. For example, a white man may be attracted to a black woman, but for whatever reason may refuse to allow himself to fall in love with or to pursue the relationship for whatever reason. A married man may meet a wonderful girl at the cafe, spend a charming afternoon talking with her, but decide not to pursue the relationship even though he feels he could easily love her. A lesbian could meet a wonderful straight guy, decide to give him a chance and fall in love with him.

So I think the love and choice factors work together.

I hope I dont cross any lines but...

If you were to clone yourself, then have sex with yourself, would that be homosexuality or masturbation?

( refers to earlier post )
meh.

We need a gay man to provide us with some insight on this topic.
Bolo, the floor is yours.

I kid.

These are all examples of choosing how to respond to an attraction. We're talking about choosing what you are attracted to. Very big difference.

As far as gay females, I think it is sexy watching the two carpet munchers go at it!! Does that make me a lesbian in a man's body?? :S :S

@44 - But you left out the real world example of MonkeeMan! :)

I my life, there was one guy I know who I might have been able to swing with had we each been open to such a thing. I liked him and I was attracted to him, but I knew we wouldn't cross that line cause we we're open to it. If we were...wow, what a different life.

Anyway, if we go with the sappy folks from the "Blonde, Brunette or Redhead thread, then its what's on the inside that matters. It would be interesting to have a match making firm where everyone met using individual isolation booths and spoke through voice distorters during the "get to know you" phase in order to fall in love with the person on the inside. What an interesting experiment that would be (somehow, visions of the Jerry vs the Chair episode come to mind).

Last edited: Friday, July 30, 2004 at 7:06:24 PM

Crimony, I go on vacation for a couple days and Rabban springs this thread behind my back! I feel like I'm walking in the party so late that the beer is gone and the chips are stale. Anyhow...

First off, I don't think a butch woman = regular man. There are still some key differences between a man and woman that will continue to exist that will make a person prefer one gender over the other. So, having a butch woman is not the same as a guy any more than having a fairy guy equal a regular woman.

Second, I think the whole butch-dressing-as-groom thing was probably just humoring the established views of marriage. It was for fun.

I still think way too much effort is put into studying if bisexual behavior is right/wrong, natural/chosen, old/new, etc. If we spent as much effort on just being friendly to neighbors as we do on digging out-of-context quotes from the Bible to create reasons to discriminate people, we'd probably be a lot better off.

- Bomb...James Bomb

Tally ho, no longer tolerant, says intolerant people are idiots.

My sister is in a same-sex relationship, and she's the "wife", while her partner is the "husband". That's just the way the personalities work out.

James, James, James...

Courageous thing for a guy to admit Rabban. Is it possible that your own past same-sex attraction has influenced your current view on homosexuality?

Rabban, I told you never to speak of our secret. Now that you've spoke openly about our love which has no name, consider it over, you bitch.

LOL Stinky....

Ugh... Stinky and rabby doing the "Double-backed-monster"..... AAAARRRGGGHHHHH.....
My question is, who is the girl and who is the guy?

:)

So good to get a stink post every once in a while. ROFLMAO.

Stink is obviously more sensitive so more then likely he is the woman.

Last edited: Sunday, August 01, 2004 at 12:28:40 AM

@Rabban: Ah, come on! People have been mis-quoting the bible in order to discriminate against indians (errrr...Native Americans :P ), then Blacks, now Gays. Whose next? Last I checked the Bible, Jesus didn't care, so neither should we.

In any relationship (even amongst best friends) it seems there is often a dominant among the two. Stereotypically, that is usually the man (but only stereotypically!). I assume the same thing happens among same-sex relationships. Might as well dress the part!

- Bomb...James Bomb

Omg reason blaaaaargh