There seems to be a rampant abuse of these three terms and what they really mean. It appears as if everyone has their own definition of what these terms mean. For the record, let's try to define them here as much as possible. It is so frustrating to see players erroneously called these names (I've been called all three in different games)!

Camper: This is the toughest term to define because not every camper does it the same way. There are three types of campers: Some stay right in the goal (usually demos and noobs). Others stay right outside the goal (aka Chong/sperm, Tally Ho (just kidding!)), while others distance themselves just enough as to not make it too obvious what they are doing (demolition coined the apt term of Pseudo-Camper to describe this technique). There is no clear and easy method of determining and proving the third type of camper. Sometimes it's just timing as a player spawns near the goal and rushes to defend and scores. It might look and smell like a camp, but it wasn't. I've done that many times and suffered an avalance of the c-word!

Diver: This one is easy. If you dive WITH possession of the flag, then you are a no good dirty rotten diver. Period. You can type OOPS and ACK and AGG all you want, but you dove, pal! I will stop and let players kill me and take the flag if I am near death with no hope of scoring or escaping. Sometimes it pays off as I spawn in the goal and steal it back and score (but then I get clobbered with the c-word again, argh!!!)!

Battlemoder: Ah, this is another mis-used term. Since I've improved my battlemoding skills a great deal, I've recently been called a BMer (battlemoder)! Talk about a shocker! Me, a bmmer? I know as I fact that I only shot the player who called me this hideous term when he had possession of the flag or just about to grab it! Never any time else. That does not make one a BMer! I think players like to use that term as another excuse for losing (much like the other two terms). I think the player who called me a BMer was extra frustrated because he would die an instant death whenever I got near him (not to brag, but it was rather impressive). Anyway, I think he mis-used the term big time.

Summation: I think we all need to correct players who misuse any of these terms during a game. I know that I do every time I notice an abuse.
Most players will appreciate it and thank me for pointing it out. If I think someone has done any of these things, then I might voice the concern but I will not call them as such unless there is overwhelming evidence to back it up. For example, the camper was in the goal a long time or the player dove with the flag or they killed someone while far away from the goal or flag.

Last edited: Saturday, November 27, 2004 at 8:59:19 PM

Before I ever call someone a camper, I always look at the radar for a while to see if anyone is just sitting there. If the scrum is a fair distance away from the goal and someone is sitting close to the goal without showing any signs of moving towards the scrum, I label that person a camper, as he/she is waiting for the scrum to come to the goal.

However, if he/she just spawned there but shows signs of movement away from the goal towards the scrum, I won't label it as camping. That's why I always watch the radar and the screen before thowing accusations.

As for bming, I don't call someone a bmer unless I know I'm no where close to the scrum when I get shot. Even then, I wait to see if it's multiple cases of getting shot.

To me, you can legitimately shoot anyone near the goal or the scrum. Anywhere else and you are battlemoding.

Correction - I would say it's legit to shoot someone headed for the health powerup you're desperately trying to reach. ;)

It is also possible to get shot by accident if you happen to be in between a legitimate target and the shooter.

The only people I will shoot outside these rules are people shooting up someone else - you'd be surprised (or maybe not) how often I get to shoot someone. XD

Unless I'm in a forgiving mood, if someone tries to soften me up, I will turn and try to kill them. :P

Good thread Pais,

I have no problems with the above definitions except maybe TMO's.

My Rules of Engagement are as follows.

1. Priority. Shoot the scrum carier. 90 % of the time my reticle is set on the scrum handler.

2. If noone has the scrum, shoot the guy who's most likely to get it as you are trying to get the scrum.

3. On the way to the goal shoot the scrum carrier or if there is a camper and the carrier is smoking shoot the camper.

4. If you are on the way to the scrum and there is one tank in front of you and he will probably be first to the scrum, it's open season on him.

5. Goal fights - melee/ no rules. If the scrum is nowhere near - you shouldnt be there - unless maybe on TS and there is a "goalie".

6. If someone is in your way during a pursuit - (i.e. You are ramming him and he is impeding you) - unloading a clip into his arse is no big deal.

7. If a tank is between you and the scrum carrier and that tank is missing / not shooting the carrier. Take him out and do it yourself if you have the distance/angle/time to the goal.

8. If a tank does not have the scrum, and not likely to get the scrum in the next few seconds and is not camping and is not impeding you there's no real reason to shoot them.

There are of course exceptions, especially in TS but for the most part I play along these lines.

Sniper

Last edited: Saturday, November 27, 2004 at 7:00:41 PM

The kids should read here.
good thread.

Hey when people play while eating a Smoked Gouda on demi-baguette with mustard. They can't move around much.

I'm just saying!

@Sniper - not sure I understand why you have a problem with my definitions. Your's and mine mesh almost perfectly:

#1, 2, 3, 4 & 5 = "you can legitimately shoot anyone near the goal or the scrum"
#6 & 7 are a bit harsher, but reasonable. For #7 I'll usually try to maneuver around the obstructor on the concept that two streams of bullets is better than one.
#8 is by definition.

TMO,

To clarify, I agreed with what you were saying... However if everyone spawned on the east side of the map except you and me who spawn mid map and the scrum in west.

Then you are directly in front of me en route to the scrum, I will shoot you as I trail you. Probably the closest I get to BMing but as you see, it's a #2 scenario not covered by your post.

So the only "problem" with your post was that it did nt cover that #2. #4 #6, or #7. Semantics.

Sniper

This is why I like CTF so much...
1. No camping..you can't
2. Bm'ing..do it all the time as much as you can..kill kill kill
3. Diving..you & your team looses a point if you do..so you don't

But you still get the thrill of scrum & battle mode combined

If you haven't tried CTF...DO!!!

^ I miss this guy

Back by popular demand.......BOLOISMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Camping: only happens in indie scrum. Half the time is due to spawnage....unless that person is a good camper there isnt any worry....if he/she is, then I BM them and carry on. (for some reasons all the best campers SUCK at shooting)

When its annoying is when there are 3 or more campers....then I:

A. Go hang out on the other side of the map with the flag since im ahead...make them work for it :)
B. Im not ahead I either BM my way there or purposely give one of the outer campers the flag so I can in turn CAMP THEM
C. Grab an area effect and watch brains fly

IN TEAM SCRUM CAMPING IS AS NECESSARY AS SHOOTING AND PASSING....
compare hockey...teams with one dude guarding the goal....if it were each person for himself why would anyone want someone who blocks the goal with intent to score?? (in that case you rip off his helmet and beat his arse)

Diving: completely acceptable in scrum/team scrum as long as I dont have the flag. Stupid to do in ctf or bm because you lose a kill (although its great to do to a team killer....kill him...then dive and get a fresh tank...repeat...that way you dont have to face him weak...after I publicly announce each time I bm him he loses interest :) )

Battlemoding: this is a shooting game with tanks....end of story :)

BMING in order of importance:

1. If tally ho, hugobrain, PREY, or mars are in the game they get BMED....doesnt matter what game types and whether or not we are on the same team. LOL

2. In BM and CTF kill all 100% of the time and ask questions later

3. In scrum/team scrum kill enemy scrum bearers or will be bearers

4. In ts clear campers if my team is advancing the flag

5. In ts kill ass shooters if we carry

6. In team scrum soften up or kill any other opposing tanks that are a higher risk to deal with

7. In teams kill teammates that would be better off with a new tank

8. In scrum if I get the flag I shoot EVERYONE

9. In scrum if im getting beat by someone who keeps getting lucky I will soften them up to even it up

10. I will kill myself in scrum/ts if I think its necessary (same as diving only with bounceback or area effect) NOTE: I HATE people who do this in BM or CTF.

11. People making rude comments, have offensive names, or are team killing or pissing me off get the HAMMER.

12. I shoot randomly if im drunk...sry bout that in advance

B

Last edited: Saturday, November 27, 2004 at 5:54:52 PM

This has to be one of the best threads ever.

BMing VS Softening Up

BMing:

In a case where you aren't near the scrum, you get a sudden feeling that you're mind needs to refresh after eating 7 ice cream sundaes, so then you feel that ice cream headache come on, then you have the sudden urge to kill every tank in sight, even though they aren't even close to the ball, it doesn't matter, because you just ate 5 more sundaes.

Softening Up:

In this case, you don't want to get labled with "BMer," so you avoid doing that by shoving a roll of duck tape up your nose, and using an old calculator to shoot, drive and talk, all at once, then cover the monitor with white-out. After that, you take a plane over to Cranium Crater, pick up the tank, hop in, drive(using the calculator,) and shoot, then you go on a psycho rampage and have the brilliant idea to only "Soften Up" the other tanks, then you do it.

@All
Wow, thanks for the great replies and kudos on the thread. I thought it would be interesting and educational and dang if I wasn't right!
You guys are funny too! Excellent stuff... I will save this entire thread to my website for anyone who wants a boiled down tip sheet on these three most misused terms!

Boloism: "In team scrum camping is as necessary as passing or shooting." Not necessary perhaps but definitely useful and I don't care about it.

Otherwise, my shooting strategy boils down to: "WASTE...THEM...ALL...(but not gratuitously, only if they get between you and the twinkie.)

One day I hope to be good enough for Bolo to shoot at me...sigh .

@ Blind Cide RE: "One day I hope to be good enough for Bolo to shoot at me...sigh."
.
.
.
Me already there, baby! Me already there! XD

Last edited: Sunday, November 28, 2004 at 6:28:08 AM

Bout all of u are there!!

Lol

I forgot to add that to my post...

I was assuming all light tanks...

If I see a medium or a heavy they will get my gun first....its just a habbit

Kinda like shooting SHEEP

B

That is a TERRIBLE habit me think!
.
.
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Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh!

Last edited: Sunday, November 28, 2004 at 9:51:07 AM

I do feel differently about heavies that camp (like Bertha, Dark, etc.). I enjoy the tremendous challenge of getting passed them to score.
It changes my entire approach to the game, but it is still loads of fun. It improves skills a lot.

Thank you me try.

Me no play scrum as often as me like now that ctf is back.
But no fear all..... Me still DO camp. %)

Last edited: Sunday, November 28, 2004 at 7:53:11 PM

Bmer=anyone who shoots at dash. These people are shameless. Everyone should gang up on the offender until he/she stops or leaves. If we all do this team scrum will be much more enjoyable.

By the way, I've seen Bertha scrum in a light and he/she/it kicked buttocks!!! So, don't assume that everyone who camps does so because they don't know how to scrum! It's obvious that Bertha does it merely because he/she/it enjoys it.

I personally have opted out of using any of these terms. I've basically accepted that it's all part of the game and something everyone has to deal with. If used wisely, each one of them COULD be effective 'tactics' no matter how dirty they can be. Their really aren't any 'rules' for this game, or else they would have been programmed to penalize you for them. I highly appreciate the great modders and programmers out there that have come up with scripts to do so, but that was their choice and yes, when you enter THEIR servers you have to play by THEIR rules. Anywhere else, it's all free game.

I know the advantages and disadvantages of all of these things, and will use them or not use them depending on the rest of the players in the server.
- If I'm playing with a full server of well rounded and respectable players, then a certain level of sportsmanship is expected and shown.
- If it's just the opposite and I'm playing with a bunch of a-holes… I'll do all three of these things just to piss em off and "fight back".
- If it's mostly respectable players, and that one a-hole comes in and starts camping, bming, or diving then I'll refrain from name calling, because that just gets you know where. Instead, I'll just put them on ignore and proceed to chase them around the feild BMing them till they leave. Actions speak louder then words.

If you "choose" to use any of these methods as your standard way of playing and you come to fully understand them and fine tune them to show everyone else how it's properly done… more power to you. I hate to say it, but Spermy a.k.a. Chong is a good example of an established "camper". That's what he knows, that's what he does, and when playing the "average" player, he's damned good at it. BUT!!! With camping… comes BMing or "goal clearing".

So just know that if you do decide to camp, BM, or dive then just expect to face retaliation from people and don't complain when you do.

@LAD
Excellent take. Totally agree on all points.

^ Ditto… think your definitions are pretty damned accurate. This should be under an "New to ThinkTanks" section here :) Further explaination of that game that you can't find in the help section :)

^^^ Word!

Last edited: Monday, November 29, 2004 at 9:00:02 AM

There may be no rules to the game, but if someone tries to 'soften me up', I'll still turn on them. ;) A tank by the name of Brawler found that out last night. Wound up fighting him one-on-one for 3 games in a row, completely ignoring the scrum match going on (except for picking up a freebie in a couple of the games).

^ That's exactly what you should do :) Whenever I'm driving while far away from the scrum and someone lets a round of on me, I calmly stop, turn around, give em a "wtf" and the light em up :) If he wants to keep at it… BRING IT!! Just keeps him from messing up the game for everyone else.

You know, I was working on a post for this thread and kind of went overboard. I was so inspired I decided to create a whole new thread in the tactics forum on it. My take on Camping, Diving, and Battlemoding might be a little controversial for most. For more information, please visit my thread; "Scrum 101, The way SteAlth sees it!"