I agree with you stinky - I am all for waffles for everyone.

Ps - the folks that pointed out the inaccuracies in Sen. Kerry's war record weren't wrong - at least no one ever proved them wrong.

Can we talk about Soros now?

I didnt read it I got board after 14 year old so good job to the man who ctually reads it!

Mooo.

Wait...not getting involved.

Mooo

Still better than waaaaaaaa people don't believe in what I tell them to. Waaaa theres gota be some spin doctor, I can't be wrong.............

Oh wait not getting involved either, don't have the time.

Your challenge is explaining how the narrative is successfully sold to the large number of intelligent and thoughtful individuals who buy it. That the masses buy it, is no surprise to me -- cows are easily herded. But why are so many chimps saying "moo"? That's the puzzle in my mind.

Last edited: Monday, February 21, 2005 at 3:42:59 PM

Disgusting Flea sound.

I read every single word including the ones between the lines.
I agree with you. I too prefer to look at the world as the state of Humankind.

The realization that our leaders have deceived us is rather uncomfortable.
The thought that the educated were outvoted by the uneducated is unnerving.
The acceptance that the two are related helps.
The fools have not realize that they are being lied to, and all lies expose themselves in time.

But...
Will the media ever get bored with the terror card?
Did they forget that no weapons of mass destruction have ever been found in Iraq?
Did they forget terror was not from Iraq?
Did they forget about al qaeda?

Ten Appalling Lies We Were Told About Iraq

BTW. You left out Animal farm.

MAX

Last edited: Monday, February 21, 2005 at 3:50:20 PM

Moo

Many thought the herd was right the first time the tower were attacked and we did nothing........
the herd thought we were right in pulling out of Iraq the first time we were there....

There are many instances of herds and mooos and blahs blah blah....

Just depends what side of the fence your are sitting on. Again this just another tirade with a different face

Moo

I don't know about the cows, but I do smell something..

Or - are we at Chick-Fil-A?

(Sorry all - I just HAD to......)

@ Stinky

How about some waffle fries?

“how could a draft dodging young ideologue have the audacity to attack an authentic war veteran on the subject of sacrifice to one's country?”

Becomes

"how could a 5 term US Senator who has never stood for anything (at least longer thanthe life-span of a congessional bill from introduction to vote) attack the President of the United States for taking a stand on national security...while our armed forces are at war?"

It's funny you should ask - I thought the same thing after I read your post above. It's almost like talking to a mirror.

@Stink thanks for the name calling and personal attacks against me. Like we all haven't seen it coming. Sorry, you are right I didn't put any thought into this, didn't need to.. Yes I am a simple man... Thanks

You're losing me in the complexity. Your initial post begged a good question: Why are the masses so susceptible to well spun narratives? Answer: Because the masses don't think critically, and they love the power and simplicity of unifying myths. You can package these unifying myths in many a box...religion, nationalism, racism, etc. But what about intelligent, thoughtful, critical thinkers -- there are many out there -- who seem to agree with these grand narratives (or, at the very least, neglect to question them). What of those individuals? I believe that the pain of lost ideology is too great for many to face. They see it. They know it. They choose not to explore alternate beliefs out of fear.

@ stink wrap it up and put a pretty lil bow on it, it still smells.

So I shouldn't be insulted by being referred to as what you consider being part of the herd? I know that I didn't put a lot of thought and effort in responding, knowing that no matter what I wrote it was going to be ignored. (as it was ignored, good job!) However, I never called you "whiny liberal" you did. I never talked down to you nor attacked you. Yet, you do me? So I don't write a freaking essay with bunch of words that I have to look up (yes I am a simple man) so I am considered wasting your time. I shall waste it no more and you can go back to the silence.

@stink
No you did not misread it, did you not say moo or was I not supposed to respond to that?

Yes and I should learn not to respond after my third glass of wine from the box of fun. You seem to say pretty things like "I really meant that I am anxietal about current american politics...not just republicanism...but the whole nationalist trends I see building up." However, your first post was a jab at Republicans and if I read between the 50 cent words correctly your saying were dumb cows who follow blindly without question. Is it possible for men to question the same things and come up with different answers?

@stink: You're accustomed to "knee jerk stuff", and you're practically groining us rightys? Now spin me a fancy "oh no you can't talk that way" response.

@ stink

I generally find your posts enlightening. That being said, the one time I ventured into a thread you started, and posted a somewhat serious, relatively constructed thought, I was immediately bashed with "go slam my nuts in a door jamb." This is my second (and last) post, and I assume I will get the same response. I realize it is off-topic, but I am trying to shed some light on why many of your threads end up a bickering match as opposed to a civil discussion.

Maybe you were just joking...my sense of humor isn't all that keen...and I'm dumb.

Did somebody say waffles?

Heading out the door on a business trip and expect to have to read a near novel when I return just to catch up.

In my absence, I urge all of you to think hard about what Stink is saying. It's not his typical leftist drivel (sorry stink, had to get their attention). Anyone following this thread....anyone capable of reading it and understanding the big picture of it...should agree that it is amazingly easy for culture, politicians, media (anyone or anything who enjoys a pulpit in front of a mass audience) to sway the thinking of the masses with fairy tale stories. Bill Clinton said that he loved his wife, played his saxophone, had Hillary say she "stands by her man" and the masses believed Paula Jones and Jennifer Flowers were probably lying...right? (I know, I know...you didn't buy it for a second, right...but the masses sure did). Stink is drawing no distinctions (yet) between the grand narratives of the left and those of the right. Can you simply agree that it is easy to influence the masses? We are easily swayed.

Now, why is that?

...and that has consequences. If you want real conversations, you can't write in that manner. My first pass on this thread was a brief scan since it did seem to be your usual attack with a different spin. There comes a time when shouting "The sky is falling!" or "Wolf!" beings to fall on deaf ears. However, I decided to take the time to read the thread this time and I understand what you're trying to say, but your reputation has tainted you message and your getting the usual responses. Ironically, its kinda proving your point. Its similar to Clinton giving a speech on morality. He may be right on every point, but he lacks credibility. You may be right on every point here as well, but your rep has sullied message.

Anyhoo, I don't think the masses are all that disconnected from what's going on in America, they're just as consumed by it as you seem to be. I think its interesting that you are so interesting even though you are in Japan. It would seem to me that whatever's going on isn't really effecting you that much. Personally (speaking for the herd), I've got too much going on in my personal life to carefully scrutinize what my government's currently doing, let alone what its done in the past. I did my duty (for good or ill) in November, voted and now its out of my hands. Sure, I've tried sending the occasional letter to my senator or congressman only to have them reply with a letter that basically thanked me for supporting their position or explaining to me why they had to vote the other way. I've sent some cash to my pet causes in order to support some PAC, but that's about it. Again, my big influence was in November. Now we're on cruise control, flowing along till the next election when we're promised change and a better tomorrow, but even politicians know they're limited in what changes they can really effect. For example, we're in Iraq for whatever duration, regardless of who's the president. I suppose I could get really upset about things, but what good would that do? Maybe I'll write my senator and say, bring 'em home or nuke the ragheads? The political aristocracy is driving the bus and until I'm willing to participate in another revolution, that's the way its going to be.

If you are on the right or left, one thing
remains constant, you picked that side
because that is what you feel is best
for your country. In order to get into
power you have to sway the masses.
Once in power you have to do more
selling and swaying to do what you
think is best.
As far as the "how do you sell
an unprovoked,preemptive attack on a nation
for the purposes for extending and increasing
american hegemony (predominance)"
I don't think that is why we went to war ;
sounds like a sway the masses tactic
to show a greedy, heartless rightwing
policy in order to free up some domestic
spending.(we all sway the masses to get
what we feel is the best)
"the fact that the initial narrative failed horribly...
the narrative of self-defense -- as part of the
meta-narrative of "terrorism.""
I think that "inital narrative" worked beautifully,
so much so that, that is why I still believe we
went into Iraq.
Now why do we "herd"? To belong to a group
who has the same values. I dont see poeple
herding to go against their own intrests. In your
post you gave Hitler as an example well its easy
to herd the masses when the shepherd shoots the
cows that go astray. In America the "lost" sheep
can still speak up to sway the herd back to his side
of the pasture ( the left side or right side) , which is
what this post is all about.

T raider

@Stinkfingers...

I think you speak very eloquently but you offer not alternatives.. It is easy to criticize but much harder to provide productive alternatives.. I am not an American.. I do not always agree with the position taken by America.. Yes I think they have done much harm in the world AND I think they have done much good. It is a very tough position to be in. The world leader.. All will find fault in every one of your actions but few offer any other approach to solving the problems presented. Maybe you should direct your energy to offering a VIABLE solution..I think you will find this is MUCH harder to accomplish..

Just a Canadian thought.. Lol

Doc just said something I'd been thinking about as well. Stink does tend to criticize without offering solutions. I've also noticed he starts from knowing his position is right and then proceeds to tear into anyone who disagrees. Perhaps if he'd explain his position and try to win us over he might find more success.

@Stinkfingers.

Again this is NOT a criticism of you. I wish I could write as well as you do.. Just a computer geek here.. Lol..

However, you ARE taking the easy path.. No one is looking for another shepherd as you say.. BUT it is important in the democratic society you seem to enjoy so much to present more than one idea. People will then take from those ideas the best and move forward. How do you think science works.. How do you think mankind has progressed to where it has.. I think you take the easy road and you know what they say about that!..lol..

It is VERY easy to criticise it is MUCH harder to offer an alternative that makes sense.. Although you seem educated enough to know this already.. Maybe thats why you avoid the approach for fear of having your ideas put to the test.. Just a thought..

Swan song?

Interesting reading these posts.

In my opinion, Stinker’s picking at you is something that you should cherish.

He’s just trying to get you to think. To counter his position. Most of the conservatives in this country can’t counter the modern liberal movement on an intellectual level. (Part of why is that we haven’t really thought it that necessary or fundamental – no pun intended…well, maybe a little bit intended.)

Stinker is good at bobbing and weaving. A dancing Mohamed Ali. I think more artful than some the ham-fisted media curmudgeons out there even.

So sharpen your knives on him.

To me, it’s a sad state of affairs all around. Mooooooooooo

No sooner does racism’s stronghold get broken in this country, then it is replaced with the left-wing loony tunes.

But their reign is ending, I think.

Watch the Stink language.

They blur right and wrong. The lefties are trying to redefine what is right and wrong on a basic philosophical level.

Take today’s school systems. Brutality reigns. Teach your kids right before they go to school. How to deal with or intimidate a bully or rapist with a gun.

The liberals brought this. Wrong is 1.) An interesting psychological case who 2.) Needs our pity and some “retraining” in how the “village” thinks. Good and bad are so, you know, biblical. One dollar’s worth at the dollar store. Re-tuning old fashioned good and bad and cause and effect is sooooo desperately needed. The Ubermensch has to pick up his lamp and hurry the masses into god-hood.

Meet the old boss, same as the new boss. They can’t live with the tolerance that they so logically swallow because it won’t work because they keep getting mugged on the way to the Brave New World. They want to take us to where the “village” will rule through bureaucratic and judicial herding when it fails.

If you don’t articulate back at the left, we are doomed to repeat history, Citizen. The French Revolution, Stalinism, and even Nazism and all of the associated atrocities will just come full rotation. (And don’t tell me about the atrocities of the Inquisition; they ain’t nothing in comparison with the body count of the guillotine, the gulag, and the death camp.)

So cherish the lefties. We need examples to highlight how good is constitutional sharing of political power and the rights of all individuals, not just the few forward thinkers.

The cat isn’t in the bag on the extremist right wingers either. They’re the same as the extreme left. (You’ve got less to fear from some of the religious right than you think.)

If there is a God out there, do you see him twisting your arm to believe in him at the moment? We have the pleasure of choice. 1 + 1 = 2 is a fact that simply is and that you can’t prove logically. No amount of twisting by the left or the right is going to change truth.

But the worst thing I can do is listen to the steady chants of stupidity until I go along with it. Sort it out and think for yourself.

Last edited: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 at 6:24:25 PM

^ wow

@ JJ - I do cherish the picking of stinky.

@ stink
You state that I didn't read initial post, I did. All along I have been saying that I disagree with what what you consider to be the herd. To me the herd isn't waving a flag in my face, talking down to me, or collecting my taxes for bullets. Guess I need to get cable so I to can watch fox. This Bill O'Reilly you speak of sounds fascinating. No, for me the herd is saying the President lied, our troops are dying for no reason, were only in Iraq for the oil, the President has alienated us, Iraq is a mistake, you get the point? Hey I'm a Republican in a very liberal state and city(heck we had over 100% voter turn out here, lol). So yes in a sense I do agree with some of the parts that you stated. I just have a huge issue as to what you considered to be the herd and the shepard. I know that what you were trying to say is how we the "masses" get lied to. Which is why I flipantly said stuff like, the herd was wrong about not acting with the first tower attacks and they were wrong about pulling out the first time of Iraq. I also said guess it depends which side of the fence your sitting on. Hmm your response to that was.... So can you at least understand why I am a little hesistant to offer a slighlty different view point?

<----is a product of the public skool system and can't read fast enough to keep up.

@ JJ

Good seeing you - great post.

@ Stinky

Great posts as well. By the way - did you move in next door to Rabban?

XD XD XD XD XD

Where did your response go, Stinker?

I get a break from work and come back and what?

Last edited: Thursday, February 24, 2005 at 7:58:15 PM

Speaking of the end of the lefties monolith, how about that Ward Churchill?

LEFT WING NUT ALERT!

He's the spokesman for the liberal ideology's disintegration. Che with his hat on the wrong way.

As a result, affirmative action for conservative representation may even break out soon in universities throughout.

For those who have not enjoyed Ward's rhetoric, here's a slice:

His continuing crusade is what will be doing the real damage. He has a right to free speech and tenure protection. They are not the issue. It is his continued abuse of his position.

Also, for all you closet conservatives, may I recommend Bias by Bernard Goldberg. Even though it's been out a while, I am reading it now. Liberal bias in the media. Dan Rather is the Paulie Walnuts of the media industry! Ah, but he's, like, outta here...

Bias, not just left-wing bias, is what he is after in the book.

And may I also tout another balanced viewpoint:

Physicist Brian Greene

This was a link that Tally posted a while back. A "Fresh Air" episode from NPR that I just got to also. (Really like Terry Gross...what a name to go with the show's title!)

Greene makes a good point about his interest in uncovering the workings of the universe. It may be mechanistic, it may be created, but he enjoys getting his hands dirty, tinkering under the hood.

Greene does not like the Kierkegaardian leap of faith and makes a good point (listen if you are interested).

Last edited: Friday, February 25, 2005 at 5:16:51 PM

Inmates are running the asylum.

Where's stinky?
Where's TG?
Where's anything other than the goofy posts out there?

STOP THE MADNESS!

Is it just me or has stink's name been turned into a dash and almost all his posts deleted

No - apparently he made one too many anti-Haliburton comments and hasn't been heard from since.

Lol, what DID happen to Stinky?

Heeeeee's BAAACCCKKK!!!