Look, correct me if I'm wrong, but why are Cliff Hanging and Camping (or anyother strategies) so bad? Sure, they may be hard to work around, but it doesn't mean have a cow! Everywhere I go, there's someone who is Cliff Hanging or Camping, or whatever, but along with that, there are 7 or 9 people whinning about it! You know which is more annoying and distracting from the game? The whinning! I honestly think that if you have a problem with that strategy, than:
a.) forget it
b.) ask said person to stop please, and state that you don't really think it is fare to the rest of us
c.)leave the server

Don't do:
a.) start a riot
b.) spam the server by continuosly bothering that person
c.) BM (in scrum) or team up on said person

Look, although those strategies may get annoying, they are still strategies, and they abide by the rules (rules that everyone knows.... Some demos are just trying out a game and have no clue what they're doing). You're not being fare if you make the entire server unbarable do to one person.

Another thing to take into mind is that waiting inside the scrum goal (i.e. Camping) is not against the rules. Nore is cliff hanging in BM. As far as the game is conserned, anyone can do that....

Survivor:
As a part of the survivors, admin in the survivor servers, and other survivor stuff, Cliff Hanging is perfectly legal, and you shouldn't riot or spam because a person is cliff hanging. You can kill them, and gang up on them ( ;) ), just leave rule breakers to the admins...

CannedSplam©

Unfair tatic. All opinion based.

Cliff Hanging sucked in the original survivor, and it will in yours too. It's the one main reason I stopped playing it, and it looks like it will be the reason I will never play on yours. And that truly makes me sad :(

Just my oppinion... I could make it agaisnt the rules! XD ;)

Ever since I've been in this game I've listened to people whine about cliff-hangers, campers and BM-ers.
I could care less.
Vets can be more annoying than noobs.

Great post CS!! XD

I just stated I don't play on survivor because of the cliff hangers, I hardly call that whining. 8o

Last edited: Thursday, December 01, 2005 at 8:39:37 PM

^Didn't mean you! :(
What trips my trigger is the overall whinning in ANY server that I go into.

I try to explain to the cliff hanger first, just in case its a newbie. I don't think its right and I think its a cheap tatic. Especially when they practice it,, get real good at it, come out into the playing field to kill until they are smoking bad and use the cliff to retreat ,, shoot at following bots for easy kills, or use there skills on the cliffs to take advantage on the field. Im pretty sure in the real world tanks can't roll on a verticle slope. Lol Simply put I don't like it, nor do I respect anyone that resorts to it.

P.S..
I don't scrum much but if I did I'd probably hate camping.

My 2 Cents

Last edited: Friday, December 02, 2005 at 3:36:38 AM

^ Ja... I do play scrum and I hate coming so close to the goal--only to have the flag stolen by a camper. X/ And don't say that if I was good enough I could avoid it, because I've been in a server with the absolute master of camping... DEMO TANTY.

Nothing wrong with camping and bming and stuff.
all it is is tactical playing... Like if your in a pack chasing someone to goal and the scrum holder is obviously not goign to make it anyway, you start shooting (bming as some call it) the most healthy player in front of you to give you more chance of being the last survivor and most probably the scorer. Moreso if you've spent the game with little sly shots into people and left them smoking and making them easier to kill.

And I can't see the problem with camping either... If you sit at the goal the whole game you're obviously not goign to get as many goals as someone who chases it all the time. BUT if you spawn and the scrum is coming and you have better chance of stealing it from someone from camping (or catching) then I have no hesitation to do so

All it is is tactics...

And I can't see how anyone can see it as anything but... Afterall the game IS about scoring the most goals isn't it?

And I don't see the problem with anyone using them what I have the problem with is the self-righteousness people in the game who think that they have the authority to tell YOU how to play because they are annoyed that you got a goal which THEY think they deserved

...my 2cents which im sure I've probably aired many times before

I actually hate the divers in scrum,I played the other day against someone certainly better than me and they dived because I was gonna take the scrum from him.it was a fellow st too I couldn't believe it.

BMing is bad.
Camping is good.They are SO easy to get around.

@gam Was it Scruminator(ST)
He claims it is his army called Scruminator's Tribe 8o

Not entirely. It's an online game in which you're part of a community of other people where social ethics apply. People should, if they they care about the community, avoid behaviors that are deemed inappropriate by the vast majority. Most people believe that BMing, cliff diving and camping in scrum are inappropriate -- doing so angers many people in the community. If you view the game as being about more than just "scoring the most goals", and if you've got any concern about the community, you should avoid behaviors that piss a lot of people off. Oh yeah, and me telling you that camping is inappropriate ain't an example of self-righteousness...it's called sharing an opinion.

Last edited: Friday, December 02, 2005 at 7:23:25 AM

The "self righteousness" is in reference to all the little haters who make a point of giving up their on their own game to make YOURS hell because they have decided your a "camper"; "bmer"; "diver"; "noob" or whatever else...

I agree about the fact that being in tt and ptt does mean you are "part of a community" but surely that is more about respect for other people, and if someone takes 'YOUR' goal then you should have the courtesy to say 'well done' and try not to get caught out by them next time...

...i can see why people have a problem with people camping for a whole game and simply going from goal to goal, but you find these people rarely get to the top of the scoreboard and simply don't have as much fun as everyone else. That doesn't however mean I am going to start being self-righteous and start insulting them because I believe MY way is right.

I love to see campers and cliff hangers ingame. Its too boring not too see them. Imagine no Campers in Scrum, The people running to the goal will nearly always score, without these campers they wouldnt get stopped.

Thank you for understanding all this without shooting flames. I just think that focusing on problems like some people do is just going to make things harder.... Let things go. :)

Camping in a game of 8+ is like being the CEO of a company and using your employee's 401k to buy a $15,000 umbrella stand. You reap the rewards of another person's work. I do enjoy campers in a game of around 6-8 players, because then an individual has some time to make some moves.

@ soap scrum no its not scruminator unless thats his other alias the he uses.i won't tell you or anybody who it was.like lonewolf always says don't accuse unless you have proof.

Some more things I hate it when I'm not smoking and a teamate who is camping kills me and steals the flag.For everybody playing on my team in the future if you see me smoking heavily and I'm being shot at please let me pass it to you.please don't go crazy if I mess up especially the vets playing you guys make mistakes too and I don't say nothing to you when you mess up.you think nobody notices,I don't waste my time saying omg watch your radar when you mess up.be polite and patient.also don't pm me when I'm playing the game email me if you have a problem and be assured it will be handled or I can try to improve in that area maybe with your help.
thankyou

Last edited: Friday, December 02, 2005 at 6:59:09 PM

Right!

And if camping, diving and BMing piss a lot of people off...have the "respect" not to do it!

I like Memphis' analysis of camping. I would add to it by suggesting that the buzzkill test applies to any tactic in question.

@ Pablo who said:

Have you ever considered that the "haters" think that your tactics are a buzzkill and have ruined the game, so why not make your game "hell" as well? FYI: I'm what you call a "hater" and I figure I'm just doing unto you what you are doing to me, killing the buzz.

What I think is wrong with camping is this:

You have the flag. You somehow, using all the moves in the book, manage to get close to the goal. Then someone else, using no skills at all, bumps you and backs into the goal. X/

It takes lots of skill to get to the top of the list in scrum. It takes no skill to camp. X/ And the score is supposed to reflect **who is best at scrum**, as in, who has the best skills.

What seems more common these days, is for people to wait for me to grab the scrum, then immediately start ass-blasting. Either that, or they camp. Just remember for every action, there is an opposite and DISproportionate reaction coming from yours truly. If you BM me...don't expect to enjoy the game. If you camp...don't expect the scrum to be near the goal anytime soon. If you throw a pebble at me, I will throw a nuke at you. If you raise, I will re-raise all in. If we keep it "civil" we all have fun.

This is all relative, but most of us know to what degree to take things.

That's perfect way to fix things!

Do you care if another personisn't even trying to show skill? You shouldn't.

I don't care if another person isn't even trying to show skill. I just care if that person gets to the top of the scoreboard.

You don't get it splam. It takes learning and skill to really excel in scrum. I'm getting there, but still get my butt handed to me by some players.

All that effort resulting in some cheap score for a dagnabit camper is a real letdown. It takes fun away from the game.

It's like IMing a girl you run into on the net, wanting to meet her, and finally you get to, just to find out she's your sister. (imagine the shock and horror!!)

Total letdown.

The social norms of TT frowns on some tactics, and some of that depends on game type. Pretty much everything goes in TS (except diving with the scrum). Indie scrum frowns on BMing for no reason. In survivor, cliffhanging stinks. CB even made maps to prevent it.

The gameplay is the thing that needs to be preserved. Making it not fun to play ruins the experience, and bad experiences cause people to stop playing TT, which makes it all less good.

It's like doing a very important project for your company with one coworker. Your boss says that the person who does most of the project gets paid for the project, but the other person doesn't. You work your butt off on this project, hoping to get the money and the honor, but it just so happens that the boss is watching as your colleague gets to complete the final step of the project. He then decides to pay your coworker. You get NO MONEY. ZERO. ZIP. Even though you worked your tail off and put much more elbow grease into it than the other guy.

Sheesh! And I thought it was like playing a online game...

DEMO TANTY IS THE MASTER OF NOTHING!

LEARN IT
LOVE IT
LIVE IT

That's when you simply focus just a bit more and take the camper down over and over. Makes it much harder for the camper to get any enjoyment out of the game.

Butt, I normally try to replace all of the lost fuzz and repaimt the bullseye bfore I leave for the night.
Man, no gratitude. Prof the snob. So what has the society come to? XD

XD XD

Last edited: Monday, December 05, 2005 at 6:52:11 AM

I get complaints that I am camping all the time.

If someone is running to the goal and is closer than I am, my only chance is to take a direct line to the goal and intercept it there. THAT IS NOT CAMPING.

I'll throw my two cents in and side with Memph - in it's purest form scrum can be an elegant example of grace and skill. If this doesn't sound right to you, keep playing. Scrum is a dance - it's about knowing what your opponent will do before he does (x7). IMHO, the fact that we have tanks is meaningless. The game would only improve without guns at all. But I digress - When you have players operating at that level the addition of tactics such as cliff hanging are, well, crude. Amateurish I guess. It's insulting and a waste of my time. There, I'm a scrum snob.

My two cents.

Btw - Racer, you don't camp me. Keep going.

Seems like most of the experienced class players say here that camping, diving, bming, and hanging detract from the game.

If you want to defend these as tactics, recall you're defending chong, tanty, and uncountable hordes of lame demos.

$.02 ka-ching.

Mk

No... The difference is, tanty, chong and lame demos get their fun from pissing people off; they aren't trying to 'score goals' for fun but are only trying to score their goals (or bming or diving) to get on other peoples nerves...

...as part of the game; part of peoples tactics, camping and bming I don't think should be frowned upon... If the game was supposed to be played without bullets then bravetree wouldn't have put a gun on my tank and if you spawn next to the goal when the scrum is coming I don't see why you shouldn't wait and "camp"?

... I DON'T think it makes the game more fun if people just sit next to the goal the whole game and don't come out for some "fancy footwork", BUT I don't think it's right for people to verbally abuse these people just because they don't agree with their 'methods'.

@ 44 and bc: I don't see why camping and bming should be dissallowed because their are many situations where it is APPROPRIATE to the game and it makes the game total "buzz" if you don't or CAN'T put your all into it and try your hardest to score... Surely THAT is more respectful and inevitably more fun for everyone.

...i do know how it feels at the times when you work hard for a goal and someone takes it off you at the last moment, but that is just 'harsh breaks'; it happens sometimes.

(I think this is about my 6th cent)

I like to camp. So what? Camping is part of the game, the only thing I don't like to see is cliffhanging. Cliffhanging never results in anyone scoring, but camping does. I don't care if I steal anyone's good work. Hell, even I try not to camp but I hate not to because I always end up spawning a gazillion f' ing miles away from the goal which pisses me off. Is there a name for this tactic? : some people always hide in the crowd of people and never get the scrum until they are close to the goal. They always let others die for them so they can come in and steal their work.
-
^ is this considered camping? Because if it is, a lot of us camp then....

@ CS's first post.
You obviously dont know much about indy scrum.
You can just ask some1 to stop diving/cliff hang.
n00bs will be n00bs, its as simple as that.
Now I can agree with the part about people complaining, because its obvious that complaining isnt going to get you anywhere. I'd suggest that people who dont want to play with campers, divers cliffies, and wierdo's go to a moderated server.
What this one guy did was made a script so that if you stayed in the goal for over 10 seconds your tank would bust.

I'm not gonna get into this with you. What I just said correspondes with what you're saying. Why don't you re-read my passage. Because if you read it well you'd notice that you are just being confrontational (where'd I hear that before? :o ). Look, whatever. Enjoy whatever new thing you want to say about this post, and the ones after that! Maybe you could even make a document explaining ways to further irratate me?! That would be grand, huh? :'(

You mean I'm just voicing my opinion...

No, I don't. 8o

I think one of the greatest pleasures in tt is tricking a camper/DEMO and scoring despite their best efforts to ruin the game for you. XD

Lol.... (Glad you summed your maturity to add some humor into this sqauwble I started) :)

Ok my opinion on camping, diving, and cliffing. In survivor the person who survives the most is usually the winner right. Well think of it this way. If every player in survivor cliff hangs. There will be no winner. There for it makes it no fun and it will be a wasted mod made by -z-( im sure you wouldnt want that to happen ). In scrum you cliff hang,camp ,dive. Just as proff said the smae will happen to you from me. Youll also be labled as the next chong or Tanty. Bming in scrum thats not problem. Not for a Bmer at least. Anyhow with all that said its not really good weather its a stratigy or not. Its cheap, its lame. Thats where all the whinning comes from.

Last edited: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 at 7:05:26 PM

Usually people camp because they want to annoy you or they don't know any better. So if they are, you could just politely ask them not to camp. And if they are a n00b, then it probably isn't much of a problem anyway because it would be easy to trick them :P. And if you spawn in the goal and the flag is coming toward you, I think it would be fine to wait a little while. Instead of just charging right at them and having them pass you for an easy goal (especially if it is someone like lonewolf who will own you no matter what :P). Personally, the thing that annoys me MORE than camping is when you spawn in the goal and before you can move, some moron who has nothing better to do yells "CAMPER!!!!!!!!!!!". I'm sure this has happened to most people. As for BMing, I do it sometimes and I think its ok to shoot people as long as it isn't all that you do.

Just my 2 cents...

And given the nature of this thread I think someone else will soon post and flame me and say how bad BMing is, how I must be defending tanty, etc ;)

Edit: About survivor, I personally think it is pretty easy to kill a cliffhanger anyway so it isnt much of a problem...

Last edited: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 at 7:15:04 PM

Well, plenty of people don't like to cliff hang in survivor. I cliffhang when I'm desperate, and it's no big deal! I couldn't classify myself as Chong or Tanty! It may take no skills to cliff hang or camp, but it is just plain annoying for people to worry about it when they could be enyjoying the game! :)

It flew right past your head didnt it can? X/

Last edited: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 at 7:24:30 PM

For those who play scrum with me if you camp me or bm me then I will hunt you down the rest of the game. As hunting you down is just as much a part of the game as camping or bming. And just as waistfull. Camo gear all cleaned and ready to go. So a hunting we will go, a hunting we will go, you silly rabbits...

You feel strongly about this, huh GODZLLA? XD

Ssshhhh... Be vewy vewy quiet... Im hunting wabbits...