The background.

A nuclear N. Korea

Let's just take this at face value for a second. How would we feel (especially our friends on the West Coast) if the US was threatened by a nuclear North Korea? Its seems as if the DPRK has it in for us (justified or not) and may actually use a weapon (either by launch or by threat) to influence or attack the US.

I think Kim just might fire one off IF he felt it was in his best interest. My generation was really concerned about a nuclear war with the USSR in the 1980s, and it definitely made you think about your present life and life "the day after" a nuclear strike. I wonder how the younger folks here feel about this issue since they really haven't faced this potentially dangerous situation before.

How does that make you feel as a citizen? What do you think we should do about it? Is it time to leave Beverly Hills and head back to Kentucky?

Really, should we care if anybody complained if we whacked this guy?

Now now, the Geneva conventions say we're not allowed to assassinate state leaders...

<. <

>. >

O. -

The Geneva conventions also said that we weren't allowed to shoot human beings with 50 caliber machine guns, but you see that all the time (in the movies)

Are we too afraid to talk about the possibilities of a nuclear strike on the West Coast?

While you cannot absolutely write off the possibility, I don't believe Kim will ever see actually launching a missile at us as his best option. Threatening to do so, perhaps, but even then he'll probably be fairly circumspect about it. After all, we've already invaded and toppled two foreign governments over the loss of two buildings.

If you assume that he does launch a nuclear warhead at the continental US (why does everyone always ignore Hawaii? B) ), there is still a chance it could get shot down. "Star Wars" doesn't exist, but there are still ways to take out a missile if you react quickly enough. The chances are slim, but it's still possible.

The next thing he'd have to guess is whether we'd turn the whole area into a sheet of glass in retaliation or merely invade. As tempting as it would be, I doubt politics would allow us to nuke them back. China, South Korea and Japan would all catch a lot of fallout.

So, naval blockade, surgical air strikes, followed by invasion from South Korea (and probably amphibious assault as well). While they may be able to hold on for a short time, they don't have the food resources to last for long.

China's response is impossible to guess. If they side with or try to protect North Korea, we could see a Second Korean War situation. I have a hard time believing they'd do that, but it's entirely possible.

As far as the effects of a nuclear strike on the west coast of the US, it would completely devastate the city it actually hit, of course. If it targeted California it would probably set off an earthquake, but it's hard to say if anyone would notice among everything else. :P But outside the city actually targeted, actual physical side-effects are likely to be small. I think the mountains would trap most of the fallout and keep the large majority of it from spreading eastward (some would, but notice that the areas just to the east of the coast are all sparsely populated and fairly arid).

Societal effects will of course be tremendous. Just about everyone will have a relative or know someone in the affected area or who has relatives in the affected area. It's likely that a lot of folks would volunteer for the military, but a reinstatement of the draft is also possible. An expanded military accomplishes two things - it gives more fighting troops to deal retribution when we're already stretched thin, and it also will let the government put more people around the nuke zone to help, protect and recover.

How's all that? It's all guesswork, naturally. XD

PS - just as an interesting FYI, I happen to have a little bit of Chernobyl bouncing around inside me. I was in Austria when that happened. Most of it got rained out before it reached us, but some of it undoubtedly did. Are any of our European players old enough to have been around for that?

Last edited: Friday, April 29, 2005 at 11:51:13 PM

So how real is this threat, is what I wanna know? My guess is not very. Honestly I see this more as a scare tactic from both our own government and N. Korea than a real possibility of a nuke attack from DPRK. The current admin has to keep justifying their aggressive tactics at rogue nations somehow, right? And I know I'll catch flak from the bush lovers here, but honestly, if dubya hadn't opened his big fat mouth and insulted North Korea on several occasions since he took office, it's entirely possible we wouldn't even be discussing this. All he did was rile up a country that has more potential to cause us harm than any others he's been poking sticks at. Nice foreign policy he's got there.

I think OM's on the right track. This administration has a history of misleading the public, and I think we could be seeing another example. The past record makes me distrust what I hear from the White House.

However, Rabban's question hits home for me. I live north of Seattle, and it's not that far from North Korea to here. I find I'm dusting the cobwebs off old terms like "mutually assured destruction", "multiple independent reentry vehicles" and so on. This alone makes me believe it's scare tactics.

The problem I have is deciding who is doing the scaring.. Is it DPRK or G-dub? I can't tell.

The armerican intell. Found out they could master it but how the hell are they going to get the materals from them.

Is North Korea treating it's own citizens at least as well as the Geneva convention requires it to treat POWs? North Korea is not a rogue state, it is an outlaw state.

In any compromise between good and evil only one side has anything to gain.

On top of talking about this old, semi-fabricated issue (WMD in Iraq, anyone?), you guys should take action with actual, real, current ones:

The use of freakin' DEPLETED URANIUM everywhere the American Armies lands! .

Hiroshima was 1945, baby. This Korean b.s. Is a smokescreen for a continuation of the arm race. An ICBM hitting the US West Coast? You're still in the 50s, buddy! %)

When a nuclear bomb will hit it will come most likely via a port or inland, and will be an anonymous coup (perhaps claimed by several organizations at once). It might very well be CIA, Mossad, Al-Quaida, Militias, NSA, KGB, or all of the above.

The American Army (I think it's the only one using this infernal technology) has been using DU in several countries for 25+ years, leaving in its wake 'dirty' radioactive wastes that cripples the population for GENERATIONS TO COME. Upon impact it releases clouds of radioactive particles which is breathed by those around, before settling in the surrounding environment. THAT'S WHAT CNN CALLS A VICTORY, MAN.

It has been linked with gulf war syndrome and severe cases of infant death and malformations.

FYI Canada refused to sign the North American Defense Shield Treaty because of
1- improbable scenario of an ICBM hitting N.A.
2- Militarization of space (against international conventions)
3- Arm race, since China, Russia and EU will have to counter act the american army measure.
4- A huge waste of money to benefit chosen corporations.

Some more links FYI:
http://www.miltoxproj.org/depleted_uranium.htm
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/awc-medi.htm#depleted
http://www.transnet-jp.com/DUban/
http://www.gulfwarvets.com/du9.htm

I'M UPSET WHEN I THINK THIS IS GOING ON AND WON'T CHANGE IN THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE!

8( XO

Last edited: Saturday, April 30, 2005 at 3:16:29 AM

No, actually, North Korea is still in the 50's. XD

I do find the scenario of a nuke coming into a port anonymously by ship more likely to happen than an actual missile being launched.

Gulf War Syndrome has also been linked to anthrax, other biological and/or chemical weapons, Diet Coke, and lawsuit-happy hypochondria. It all depends on who you read or listened to last.

It's a bummer for me 'cause im in the zone that they can fire in. (alaska) :o

Last edited: Saturday, April 30, 2005 at 8:22:39 AM

I have to agree with Hugo, but at the same time, I don't trust N. Korea one bit. BC's right about them being an outlaw state. Any country that would develop nukes (and they admit to doing that) while their people starve has it's priorities all screwed up. If they drop their nuclear development, they would be better off, but they want to use this threat as a bargaining chip. Sounds like a Cold War throwback to me.

It is far easier to smuggle a small bomb into a country than it is to build a reliable intercontinental missle system. I am more concerned with dirty bombs that scatter radioactive waste across a highly populated area than I am concerned about and actual thermonuclear device. They're apples and oranges- not the same thing at all, but both are very destructive in their own way.

I'm also wondering why the President of the US can't pronounce the word "nuclear" properly...
it's "noo-cleee-urr", not "noo-cue-lurr"

It bugs me too, but he's hardly the only one. Why can't a lot of the people in here spell correctly? He's at least got the excuse of having a regional accent. There's only one way (usually) to spell a word, no matter what your accent is.

The word of his I find the funniest is "Amurrica". We are the United States of Amurrica. Wheeee!

LOL!

It sounds like America got furry or something. Maybe I'm unfair for bringing that up, but it just grates on me...

Anyhow, sorry for the distraction- I don't want to turn this good thread into "Tease the President"...

Just wanted to say if he did launch a nuke at california it wouldnt start an earthquake. It would actually weld the faults together. No more earthquakes. This tactic is maybe going to be used to weld the faults together in the future. Just on a smaller scale.

Also Vice Adm. Lowell Jacoby. Is one of my bossess. Kinda funny.

Last edited: Saturday, April 30, 2005 at 5:16:32 PM

FYI the US has the largest army in the world by far, and spend yearly more money than the combined next 15 or 25 (forgot which) countries. While the US fears, with some reason, that they will be attacked one way or another, the rest of the world fears what the US will do next.

Like some of you know I live in Canada and as such our news are different. I love the US, been there several times, it's an awesome country but it also has several extremely powerful lobbies furthering their own agenda - and perhaps out of control. With some smooth PR they engage your great country on an increasingly dangerous slope.

As much as the power of your military projection is something to be proud about, by virtue of the geopolitical law of the Balance of Power everyone always try to bring the big guy down. Now you guys are the big guy - it's both a blessing and a curse.

Seriously who knows what is being secretly said between EU, China, Russia, and tons of lesser powers right now about the US hegemony? And how to sabotage it? It's not per se an 'anti-american' bias - it's a 'omg those guys are so powerful' bias!

All the world leading countries always faced powerful coalitions to humble them. Athens, to a lesser extend Rome, France, Byzantium, England, etc. - everyone conspired against those at-one-time world leaders.

The US, because of its continental layout and unity, cannot be brought down by conventional geopolitical conflicts. Which means only unconventional method can be directed against you.

As a citizen of the country on your North, I can tell we're very worried about how we'll suffer from the side effects from those who will try to destroy you. Especially since the Republican administration and its unilateral policies have been voted in.

Please don't take this as an 'anti-american' post. It's rather an 'anti-militaro-petrolo-industrial-complex' post, and against those insanely powerful lobbies which use political tools to secure their interests.

Good luck to you in furthering a new agenda!

Hugo,

Good post, and I share your interests. I'm very concerned about this course we are on too.

I live in a town on the US/Canada border. It's very common for me to be in both countries in the same day. We often shop in Canada.

History is laden with examples of empires overextending their reach, losing the ability to police itself, and falling. I don't think of the US as an empire, but I understand the reluctance or misgivings of other nations. I don't want the US to be the world police, but given our position in the world, and our current administration, we seem to be accepting that role.

@rabbin by maybe kim will launch one is that you refreing to kim the tt player if you have seen her it would be nice to know

@KBC,
There is a good video example of what you are talking about regarding the nuclear weapons in Iraq.
WARNING TO ALL: The above link has images containing mutilated humans. Do not click if you are sensitive to such things. Fused fingers are not all though, there are over sized limbs, fused limbs, eyes mixed with mouths, missing eyeballs, etc. You have been warned.

Last edited: Saturday, April 30, 2005 at 8:27:07 PM

Wow PIP, that movie was... Eh... What's the word... Inhumane? Disgusting? Sickening? Man, I didn't know that actually happens. Really really disturbing...

I also had a hard time believing those were humans...

4.5 BILLION years?

*Shudders*

Scary, isn't it? Took me a couple tries before I could watch the whole movie through without stopping.

PIP you have seen nothing!!!! Im there right now.

God bless America.

America, Bless God.^{Sorry For The Off Topic-ness}

That Video is just Crazy, and to think that parents have to raise Children that look like that and have to Help their Children Daily to have a "normal" life. As Normal as possible...

Last edited: Sunday, May 01, 2005 at 3:00:23 AM

After "24" is over Jack Bower will have time to take care of N Korea.
he only needs a day

T raider

That scares me a lot
I near the west of U.S.

Signs of Korean Preparations