It's easy being a good sport when you or your team is winning. However, how do you conduct yourself when the shoe is on the other foot and you or your team is losing (especially if you're getting hammered!)? A person's true colors are only revealed when things are not going their way and they are losing. We've all heard that old term "Fair-weather friend" which is very similar to what I am talking about here regarding sportsmanship and attitude. Are you a fair weather player?

I will confess that I am not proud of my attitude or behavior sometimes when I find myself on the wrong side of lopsided team scrum contest.
I have found myself whining and complaining about the uneven sides (i.e. "it's 6 on 4 or 5 on 3, etc. Etc.) and even quitting! I don't do that stuff most of the time, but every once in a while I do find myself behaving like a fair weather player. Is it because you get so used to winning that you kind of forget how to be a gracious loser? I used to take defeats MUCH easier and better in the beginning when I was a noob, perhaps because I suffered defeat so many times? I don't know what it is. All I know is that I don't like when I or anyone else behaves this way.

Here's an example of someone who has a great attitude no matter what weather they experience. Last night Ben AKA Fried Chicken and I played several ts games as teammates. We won the first game against a very good FU team with LilAlienD and Corey 11-8 but then we got smoked in the second contest. Early on in the 2nd game I realized that it was basically a 5 on 2 because Ben and I had 3 unknown players who either were noobs or having an off night, we weren't sure. Anyway, the FU boys were on fire so we knew we were in deep doo doo early on.
I told Ben "this is going to get ugly" and his reply made me smile. He said, "yup. But it's still fun!" So, we proceeded to take our lumps and got waxed big time but you know what? It was still a hoot! We didn't go down without a fight! We made them work for every goal! It felt like we were at the Alamo or something. We got scalped but it was still lots of fun just like Ben said it would be.

Well, we played several more games after that one and won 4 out of 5 of them by massive margins because our teams were more even.
It was such a pleasure not to worry about the score or outcome anymore and just enjoy the process. It was after all a game, right?
I started focussing just on the next goal instead of the scoreboard. It was an eye-opening experience thanks to Ben.

So, ask yourself this: "are you a fair weather player?" If so, it's never too late to change your attitude and behavior. Just look at it from a different angle. Remember that it's all in good fun and enjoy the process and the company of other players (shoot, even guys like Chong).

I used to joke that I was a poor loser because I didn't have as much experience as those I was playing with.

Since I don't play much lately, I am out of practice and I lose more often than I used to, and it mostly doesn't bother me, but when the LUCK element of a game overrides the SKILL element of a game, it is incredibly frustrating. And when that seems to be happening all night.... My mouse and keyboard get very afraid.

I am one of those players that gets unravelled when the luck of the game is out of balance. We have all felt that frustration.

I played three games the other night (on a DASH server) against a known vet who is very good. We were playing basically one on one with bots. I was in a great groove the first two games and have him a royal shellacking. All the while, he was complaining about my bots being better than his and that I was getting nothing but lucky breaks. He didn't know that on my side of the game, I felt like I was working harder than usual and felt like I battled for every point.... And I wasn't getting lucky breaks. Anyway, I was surprised at how much he complained.

Then in the third game, my bots (one in particular) was battlemoding me! He team killed me so many times I could not believe it (fyi- he was definitely a bot). In addition, I kept spawning on the other side of the map, the vet got a whole bunch of freebies, my bots kept stealing from me at the goal, I couldn't kill him no matter how much I shot him, and I could not get my game on.... He beat me 12-4. (two of my 4 were freebies).

Suddenly I was the one whining about the bots, and complaining about his lucky breaks and my misfortunes. It really pissed me off and got under my skin.
It was a reminder to me that the luck of the game is a huge contributor to the overall score.

Last edited: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 at 6:42:42 AM

Hey now… I switched during the middle of said second game.

Well I will admit there are a couple of times in the last week or so I felt the teams where not even ! Even though it was a full field of players ! I have made comments like, "omg","clear the goal","wait tell its clear"(1 guy running to the goal while smoking and there is 5 guys from the other team sitting at the goal just waiting to to set his tank brain free ) but I have never said the one that makes me mad and thats calling another team mate a GDI (God Dam Idiot)! That is so stupid, if it was not for your team you would not have the score the team has or your own score ! :(

I did enjoy those games last night with you, Fried Chicken,Get Some,Corey,Sniper and a few others I cannot remember (please forgive me ) ! I also want to say sorry if I didn't seem myself ! Last night my friends were going to meet me at a bar to do some B-Day drinks with me and no 1 showed at the bar ! So needless to say I did 4 bacardi & cokes and 2 double shots of Mr. Jack Daniels before I got on TT last night ! %) So needless to say, I started out today 33 years old as of 6 am this morning and a small head ache. I don't think I was doing anything stupid last night but if I did I am sorry !

I have been trying to just enjoy the game though as much as possible and reminding my self it is just a game ! I will admit though I am very competitive when it comes to TT. I have even been spending a lot of time in TBM under a alias, to try to improve my scrum game and I can see it has helped in TS. Well there is my 2 cents on this subject ! B)

@TG
BTDT! (Been There, Done That!)... Hey, I think it's fine to let out some steam sometimes in a game when it's warranted such as your example above. Sometimes lady luck just scorns you and blesses others as in spawns and freebies... However, I think too many players use those excuses to justify getting beat (other poor excuses they use are "Lag" or "bad connection" or even "popup ads!")! Argh!!!!
Ultimately, we all know the truth no matter what is said. We all know what a freebie is and when someone got lucky or not.
We also know when someone has played well or not. Even players who make excuses know in their heart that they were taken to the woodshed!

By the way, here's another gripe I have that will be hard for me to stop whining about in ts. I just cannot take it when teams are uneven and unfair!
For example, it happened last night as Ben and I played a game where it was 6 on 4 (with our team having two noobs!)! Needless to say, we got hammered into oblivion...but no one would switch even after both of us asked for someone to switch. Ultimately, LilAlienD decided to switch because he couldn't believe no one else did. He then got major flack from his ex-teammates for doing so. It was too late by then, but it was a very good gesture by a good player with excellent sportsmanship. I wish more would do the same. Not just to make the numbers even, but also when the quality of the players are unbalanced.

I think we are all in this because we crave the excitement of the game and love the competitiveness. Being competitive in nature I think you always going to be sensitive to uneven play in some games. I admit I think there seems to be more "team kill" like play lately. I have several times, spawned started to the goal and find I’m being fired upon from behind. As I turn to confront the opposition I find it's a freaking bot on my own team. The other thing I have noticed lately is that there seems to be a lot of players who lose sight of a good strategy and just kill you because your there. Last night I was playing some scrum, and I kept getting into it with two people. We are the only two people between the scrum carrier and the goal and this person is so focused on clearing me out of the goal the carrier walks right into the goal. WTF? If you want to BM fine let’s go, I'll just change my mindset. This was not team play-- What strategy is that? I can help eliminate the carrier and then we can square off right? I suppose not.

Anyway I don't think you'll have as good of a time playing the game if you’re always looking at who gets the breaks, or regularly checking the score. Some of my best games have been where I hear the 30 second ticker start to count down, I look up at the score and Oh WOW, I had no idea.

The constant whining about who got this and that was luck is just a sign of immaturity. Everybody wants to do well but it is just a game right?

Napalm

There's some valid points in two first posts. Oh and considering lag, I surely have nearly always atleast little bit lag...

It will be interesting to see which vets post in this thread. As we all know, to be the best at something you need to be driven to perfection. In that quest for perfection, the (type A) personality will be hard on themselves when they don't meet their own expectations. In a team environment where the Type A TTer does not have total control of the outcome, they can be rude to their team mates, and whine loudly about being the only good player on the team, or (like Pai said) they whine about a gazillion other reason as to why they are getting hammered.

Some of the best players in this game are also some of the biggest whiners and excuse makers. A select few elite vets even use private messages to berate their own team mates if there is a mistake made. This it totally ridiculous and undermines the confidence of the team mates.... Talk about self fulfilling prophecy eh?

There is one vet (who uses private messages to berate his team mates) who will, when his team is being beaten, take the lowest of all tactics and count how many players he considers to be good on his team. He will post a "2-5" for example. This saying that even though the teams each have five members, he only thinks two of them are any good and basically insults his team mates. I see him do this pretty much EVERY time he is losing..... He may be one of the best scorers in scrum, but who cares, he doesn't just whine, he insults his own team and the other team.

Anyway.... The point is, with few exceptions, I have seen all of us have bad or off nights, and have seen pretty much all of us have bad attitudes at one time or another.

Goes with trying to be the best.

Katherine

Last edited: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 at 7:02:50 AM

@Napalm
Good points, paisan. I guess there will always be strange behavior by some players who don't grasp the whole team concept.
I know that I am still learning a lot about Team Scrum every time I play. As Bolo has told me many times, the scoreboard does not reflect who played the best in a TS match. I know I've had my best games where I didn't even score once! I've learned to enjoy the thrill of making a sweet behind the back pass to a teammate just before you die and watching them score! (I fed Ben many a goal last night). I've found myself actually looking for a teammate to pass to even when I have a shot at scoring (sometimes the odds are better to make a pass than to risk going for a score..either because you might get shot down or their angle of approach is better). Shoot, I also enjoy blocking or pushing an opponent away at the goal and allowing a teammate to score! Another thrill that feels as good as scoring is shooting someone down just before they score!
So, you see, there are plenty of exciting things you can experience in team scrum besides scoring. You just have to remain unselfish and play for the team, not just for yourself.

@TG
Totally agree... Good points... Especially about the insulting behavior by some vets. I've been insulted a few times too and actually got ugly with the vet in front of everyone and almost got banned. Ever since that experience I've worked on my ts game a great deal and have beaten this vet many times and even got compliments from him while using an alias (talk about ironic).

I also agree about everyone feeling this frustration more as you improve because as you get better you expect a certain level of play from yourself and others. When luck plays a major factor in the results of a game it becomes even more frustrating because it's out of your control. There is nothing you can do about luck (freebies and spawns mostly).

By the way, there are some elites who never seem to lose their cool: BABA, Reagent X and MonkeeMan come to mind right away.

@ paisano
As you found in our meeting the other night, I certainly go above and beyond to "clear the path" for people on my team. Each game I want to have one of those unique runs, or acrobatic maneuvers that leave people with their jaws hanging open.

But,
I also realize I have only been playing Scrum for about 6 weeks. I have much to learn and am still amazed at many of the good players. At this point I feel I'm the best supporting my team by clearing the lane or simply hunting down the carrier. While doing this, I'm picking up the feel of the game and climatizing myself to scrum and team scrum. I admit, I didn't play much TBM for a few weeks and when I went back, I felt like I suck'd. It took me three days to get back to where I feel comfortable. It's probably because most of the time the carrier is not shooting back in Scrum.

I am disappointed in the lack of pick up scrum games. I ran into Dash last night and I think we were both looking for a good Scrum game. I was in the lair but had horrible lag (which is not typical for me in that server) so I bolted looking for better conditions. I ended up in another TBM server where Dash stated he as well had bad lag. Maybe a geographic issue, he being in Michigan and me being in Chicago.
It appears to me that there are more scrum games in the public servers but there are so many asswholes in those games, it's not enjoyable. Anyway, I guess I'll see you in the servers clearing the lane. (Or clearing you out of the lane, Watch out LOL)

Napalm

Last edited: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 at 7:26:06 AM

I play to win.

The games I most appreciate are the ones where teams are relatively even. It tries my patience when they are lopsided, and even more so when people refuse to switch teams. I frequently switch in TBM and TS if it gets lopsided.

I hate losing, but if the teams are fair, I have no problem shaking the other guys hand. If the teams are clearly LOPSIDED, and no one made an effort to fix that...well then I can get a bit testy. Just depends on how the winners react in that situation...if they are overly jubilant, as if they've just won an Olympic medal or overcome amazing odds...then I feel the need to get nasty. This is the reason I get nasty with CADC from time to time...every minor victory for him needs a ticker tape parade. But, he's still a good guy :)

Likewise, if I know my team was lopsided, I usually make a comment indicating this, such as "yeah but dash and ROGUE were chatting alot"...something to indicate I realize the teams weren't fair, and perhaps the win wasn't the truest showing of skill.

I'm all for a challenge myself, so sometimes I try to be on the low end team. I like to think that I'm very good at kind of leading the other team mates and bots to do things… with out saying anything. Clearing paths, taking fire, etc. I even played one on one games w/ 3 bots as team mates (per side) and had a bot on my team score more goals then me, and we won. Bots are obviously the easiest ones to predict and control… an "newb" honestly isn't all the different (sorry to all you newbs reading this).

Back to taking the "challenge" I've even played a couple games 3 - 1 (me being the 1) and told them to keep it that way. I played one game that way w/ 2 better then average players and one newbie and tied ;)

It's rather hard to make a blowout game fun. I agree with TG that the most frustrating part of a game is when you are trying to make the most of a lop sided situation and end up spawning in outer mongolia all the time while there's a hot goal battle raging 3 miles east of you on the other side of those two hills.

I have played one TS game where it was so bad it was comic. I literally never got within 20 tank lengths of the goal or scrum due to hellacious spawns or forehead smacking freebies.

Whenever I am on an under dog team though, I simply try to work miracles and sometimes it happens, like stopping a 3 on 1 goal rush or just barely making it to the goal from a booster pad to take away a point. It doesn't help the overal mood of the game but it's the small victories I look for in those situations.

Just think how cool it would be if in Think Tanks II, you could choose "Captains" who pick teams from an available list and then the game starts.

The order of their choosing could be hidden so as not to hurt any one's feelings.

Sniper

If there's ever any yelling on my part, it's usually to myself and directed at the goof controlling the mouse. %) Some other players have annoyed me from time to time, but I don't recall ever bothering to IM them a comment. I'm sure my TBML teammates enjoy listening to my rantings during voice conferences during games, but I'm usually berating myself.

Since I'm going to captain a TBML team for the first time ever during the next season, I'll be sure to be one of those encouraging types, something like, "I encourage you to stop freaKING MAKING US LOSE!!!" XD

Last edited: Thursday, December 16, 2004 at 5:57:50 AM

Mmm, captains...

I stick with the team I am with, unless the game gets out of hand and then I'll switch to even things out.

I hate when there's a lopsided game and folks join the server on the stronger team simply to be on the winning team. I would love to see a script that would prevent that.

I am a big proponent of having fairly even teams in team scrum, regardless of which side I'm on. Is it really fun for anyone to play a 6 on 4 or a 7 on 3? Is it really fun for an all star team to beat up on a lesser team? Why wait until the score is 10 to 2 to make a change? When I see these things happening I will call them out and ask for a switch. I know it's just a game yadaa yadda yadda but when the game is a foregone conclusion, it seems pointless to me to continue when everyone knows the score will be lopsided. There exceptions, of course. What really gets my blood boiling is when the team with more people keeps scoring and congratulating each other on what a good job they are doing. Grrrrrr.

I have been in games where the numbers were lopsided and people refused to switch, and I have switched from the outnumbered team to the other team just to prove a point. This usually either gets the point across or breaks up the game altogether.

I would like to thank those people who willingly switch when the need is there. The game is much more fun when each team has a chance. I hate losing as much as the next person, but I can take my lumps if I've earned them. I just don't like taking them if I haven't. I think it all comes down to fairness, honor, and sportsmanship. If we all make an effort to abide by these things, the game is more enjoyable for everyone.

I hop around constantly. It has to be an even game for me...if not in numbers then in talent. Sadly, even when I switch to a team thats getting a butt whuppin and we outnumber the butt whuppers...i dont seem to help much. Lol, but I try. :)

@ lonewolf
sorry to hear that about your b-day. That sucks. My b-days usually end up in disappointment so I know that feeling well. :( ah well, at least you know you always have us to fall back on when your real life freinds ditch ya! :P

One more side note to LONEWOLF... I think that when people type "GDI" in chat the "I" stand for "it" not "idiot". So it's not necessarily an insult so much as an expression that could easily be directed toward the utterer.

Of course, maybe I'm not up on my acronyms...

Sniper

@ Get Some
Thanks man ! I also really enjoyed last nights games very much ! I do enjoy the company of you guys/gals a lot ! I know all I have to do is hop on TT or PTTand some one can all ways make me laugh in one way or another ! :P
@ ALL
So thanks all of you last night who didn't know I was in the dumps but made me laugh and have a great time and forget what bad friends I have ! I guess what really hurts is my best friend of 19 years never even showed or called ! Oh well I all ways have you guys THANKS EVERY ONE ! B)

See… then you have this problem.

I'm playin' TS… and I'm a little tipsy. Green (my team) ends up 5-4. After half a game of us killing em, I switch. Even though I played the good samaritan card and switch… I stilled played like I had been the last 3 games… for green.

So I tried to be the good sport, but screwed em over in the long run. So I dipped out as soon as I realized my on going mistake. SORRY YA'LL!!

We still love ya ! The checks in the mail for being our spy on there team ! XD B)

I have to quote Dr. Jangles:

Personally I blame indie scrum. There is a night and day difference between that and team scrum and VERY few people can resist their indie instincts and act for the better good of the team.

I must admit that many of you are getting more "team minded" all the time. It amazes me that the team battlemoders catch on to the team scrum concepts so much better than indie scrummers.

For the rest of you....dont goto the goal smoking against 5 opponents and overturn 5 goals and not expect to get some grief. If u wanna play indie then do so.

Keep the teams even. Dont be a woosie

B