Nasa is experimenting with anti-matter
that may lead us pass LIGHTSPEED
and into other galaxies. The problem
is price and containment.

This is a puzzle that is left with our scientist today.

I just like to come up with my own postulation and
follow the research and see how close I get to the
answer.

This is an invite for anyone interested to think out
side the box.

MY THOUGHTS:
antimatter and matter come in contact it causes
annihilation which emits tremendous amount of
energy. Nasa scientist are currently experimenting
with some sort of magnet well to collect the positrons
and anti-protons than transfered into a inertial electro-
static confinement (IEC) chamber in which fusion is
induced. Yada, yada, yada... I think there is something
out in the universe called true neutral matter. Positrons
and anti-protons have to look for each other to complete
its cycle of annihilation to form the universe as we know
today. In that time it takes the reaction to take place
we have neutrality. That is the matter I believe to hold
the key for cheap containment of anitmatter.

Just a thought I havent see in a google search.

So what do u all think?

Last edited: Friday, September 09, 2005 at 9:55:13 PM

If theres sych thing as antiantimatter 8o

Antimatter is real. Astrologists speculate that black holes and quasars (white holes) are made of it. This would, of course, explain why objects and other forms of matter collapse instantaneously in the event horizon of most bodies...

I GUESS it would be possible to contain the antimatter in this "neutrality". Any other method would be nullified.

-Suri-

Antimatter is made up of Anti-Protons and Positrons forming AntiAtoms. When antimatter comes in contact with matter, it cancels each other out and gives off energy. This makes it neutral matter, like neutons. However, it is hard to keep in anything or contain, like a universal solvent. :'(

.... Dont forget pasta and anti-pasta!

The best way I can describe matter and anti-matter is a numberline
you have negitives and positives.... Add them together and you get less then what you started with...
but think about empty space... No air, no nothing, which is represented by the number zero in my number line
negative three plus zero is still negative three....
in conclusion.... If we can contain empty space around antimatter, it shouldent bother the matter containing it

Thats my possibility... But the question still remains.... How do we contain empty space around anti-matter in the first place
we'll figure something out eventually I guess

My own opinion is maybe harnessing that emmited energy somehow and use it as an energy source.....
its a lot better than oil for sure...

Last edited: Monday, September 12, 2005 at 9:52:31 AM

Also, if you create an anertially dampened vacume, in theory, it would be possible to store anyhing within. It would not touch any of the sides of whtever you are useing t create the vacume. This method, again, in my own theory, could house an atomic blast and still not brake.

Thats all a hypothesis... Its not even a theory because it can't be tested.

^ correction

Can be possible. I have thought of a way that this is possible. Gravity is equivelent to mass, so one would need to get mass down to absolute zero. Unfortunately, this is very VERY hard, so one would need create somewhat of a paradox. You would need to have 2 magnet rigs, each spinning on a different axis. This will create the ever effect of enery passing through whatever, and would make the "box" or whatever the vacume is contained in flaot. Then, if the rigns started at a supersonic speed, energy would be on a time delay, making vacume for gravity. Slightly. Then, the faster the rings go, the more of a wormholish type of effect is created. Time dilation will start out from the center of the rigns, and work out from there. The only problem with this method (if it where ever to work) would be thusly. We would need to have a complete oppostite of the above to revolve around the containment feild. If this was not so, the feild would expand, and the time dilation would become very warped, along with the gravity feild. It would eventually envelop the entire world, creating a larger gravity feil than this earth can stand. The earth would colopse ito some form of black hole, and the antimatter would be free to touch any matter. Then, the resulting reaction would enlarge the black hole by an incomprehensible amount. Posibly crete a rip in time/space fabric. Thus ending creation for a good... Five thousand lightyears.

Uhhhhhhh ok

First of all a lightyear is a measurement of distance, not time....
gravity is not equal to mass... (one of newton's laws?)
Gravity doesnt affect everything differently... If a pen and a bowling ball are next to each other, they both have the same gravity
what does a magnet have to do with time and energy?

And all the rest seems like something out of that book/movie "Contact"....
now PGG if you could please explain all of that in english and why it works we would all be much obliged :P

Last edited: Saturday, September 10, 2005 at 11:33:44 AM

Magnetic fields. Same way they contain plasma. :)

^ bingo! And I know about gravity not affecting different things. I also know that lightyear=distance. I meant that it would have a reaction that would spread through a VERY large space. But you are slightly wrong on the whole mass thing. Gravity is directly equivelent to mass. The bigger something is, the more gravity is generated. This is why jupiter had more gravity, and the moon has less. But you are kind of right too. Gravity can also be generated by something spinning. And I have never seen contact. The point of the whole vacume this is simple. Create fake gravity. The magnets, while charging other metals, ions and things in the air, will spin so fast that no air is able to get the the center of the rotational axis, thusly attempting to suck everything into. As this constinues, the magenst will still be trying to charge anything, but the only thing that the +/- forces will get to will be the area containing the anti-matter. The anti matter will be contained within the fake gravity feild, and the magnets should keep everything away from it that is being sucked in. In theory, it would form some sort of black hole, and create a small time dilation feild. Unforunately, we do not know what would happen if it was left on for long periods of time. Of couse, time is relivent... And I would also like to state this

I know very little about this topic. I have taken theories from other people, used resona and guessing, and put together this hypothosis. Even though I doubt anyone on PTT has the nessicary equipment to pull this off, I would not suggest it, as thusly if one where to create a black hole, so much enery could be formed into such a small point that it might detonate (or something like it).

Thankyou!

@DJ
I know about magnetic fields... :P

@PGG
very good, it makes sense enough
I thought you ment how gravity was to affect things (like a bowling ball) , not actually creating it

I dont know about the whole time thing but
how would you get antimatter in this thing before you start it?

About the movie Contact:
in it they build something like this...
3 or 4 different rings spinning around
above it a pod with the person in it
the pod gets dropped and when it reaches the center it sort of warps
they are gone for 19 hours or something
they go on to a planet, an alien talks to them... Etc
then they suddenly appear back on the earth in the pod
but to everyone still on earth, they hadnt left, they just passed thru the rings
there is more to it obviously but thats the gist

Wormhole physics? It is fiction but pretty cool....
go read it or watch it.... Good book

Last edited: Saturday, September 10, 2005 at 1:23:58 PM

Again still all a hypothesis

A magnetic field wouldn't work either because magnets are made of matter. All hell would break loose if antimatter seeped out.

Thats why it is floating. The only problem with my theory is how would one get it within the rigns without touching matter...

^ the very question I asked in my previous thread....

Teleport it?

Dont worry about how to store it yet.

I was reading it would cost a about 25billion dollars to make a factory (particle accelerator ect) to make one gram per year.

@big show
you may want to google search antimatter
lots of information on the subject.

@suriname
glad you agree with my postulation.
do you have any other idea's that may
work?

@distrubance
very true statement...but how would you
solve this problem?

@pgg
I think most of the ptt comunity knows very little
about this subject except for maybe a couple
members...JB
this thread was intended for people who just
enjoy to theorize, debate, and spew some
hypothesis, you have some good ideas brewing
there, u are right about the vacume tube and magnetics
that is how Nasa is going about it, but is it the ONLY
way to contain antimatter?

@jacob
so what is your theory?

@dj wings
magnetics need a lot of energy to keep it going, and if
for some reason it fails, say good by to your spaceship.
I would like to think magnetics is not the only answer.

@warfare
very good post with the -/+ analogy, I never would have
thought of it as an integer.

@nathan
magnetics is the way scientist have in fact collect a
very small amount of anti-protons.

@squidring
im sure evantually scientist will figure out a way to get the
price down to produce antimatter, until then im sure it
wouldnt hurt to talk about how to contain it. For each solar flare
produce about a pound of antimatter all we need is a
space bucket to collect it all. One pound of antimatter can
produces enough energy to power the United States for two
days...

GEEKS!!!!!!!!!!!! XD

^ lol :P
not all of us are geeks... Just PGG B)

@VashStampede

You like the integer analogy?
thx XD

I read that one gram would power your car for 100,000 years...
And if you were to share it with 1 millon people , 1 millon people would have 10 years each to power their cars....Thats is amazing knowing no refuel , no recharging no pollution for the hole period of time...

I edit it because I forgot to put my amazed face! :o XO

O.o

Last edited: Monday, September 12, 2005 at 11:05:12 AM

@warfare
yes, most quantum mechanics problems
are solved by mathmatics, but im no good
at math...guess thats why im not a Quantum
Physicist, O-well one can dream.

@Pharm
the thread subject is how to contain A-N-T-I M-A-T-T-E-R.

Not how can u insult your fellow ptters for lack
of any thought of containing antimatter. I would
be glad to help if u need some to gain any knowledge
about antimatter. Just let me know...

@TargetV
which web site did u read that?
I would like to check it out.

@ VashStampede

Heres the link to the website.

http://livefromcern.web.cern.ch/livefromcern/antimatter/FAQ.html

Hehe.....
Sorry I was just tring to be a a$$...

Did I succeed.... XD XD

No because it does not exist

Magnetism can be used to contain both matter and anti-matter, as was stated above. However, the fun stuff comes when you try to figure out what to DO with that energy.

Okay, so matter and anti-matter collide and causes a big blast of heat....so, what now? Are we boiling water for a steam turbine (like a nuclear reactor)? You can't just vent it out the tail exhaust like conventional rocket fuel because there is NO EXHAUST....just HEAT.

Seriously, all we know how to do is heat up a pocket of gas so that it expands and gets pushed out the exhaust. Think of how archaic that is. Why do we always have to do the inefficient method of transferring energy to heat, heat to gas expansion, then have the gas either push a piston, flow through a turbine, or just squeeze out of a rocket exhaust in order to convert energy to force?

<sigh> We're missing a vital piece of technology here. Anti-matter is just more potent fuel for a very old engine. First, we need to devise a better way to convert energy into MOTION, not heat. The Ion Engine is the best forward step we have taken to date. However, it lacks the efficiency and robustness to allow us to really push it with some serious force.

- Bomb…James Bomb

Jacob, the goverment is actually producing this stuff as we speak, so it does exist. Sadly, they can only produce about 1 atom of it every day they work, so it will take them a long time to get the 3 oz they need to make a warhead with the power of an h-bomb.

^^ I don't think I have ever seen that one post... !!!!! Yay! XD

@ jimmy- it takes (I belive) about 7 months (and 27 billion $$) to make an ounce of antimatter...

^ I think you better clarify that statement. Having an ounce of antimatter bottled up would indeed be world-breaking news...

It's not "bottled up." It takes 7 months PREPARATION to make the stuff. Once it is made, it is held in a very strong (and energy-sucking) magnetic field for a brief period of time. Basically, we hold it long enough to run some tests, then it is slowly merged with regular matter while the cooling system absorbs the resulting heat.

Yah, it'll be awhile before we can pump this stuff in at a gas station. ;)

It's been too long since I read the process. I believe you use a particle accelerator to smash some atoms down to the quarks and gluons. First, these are separated by mass by spinning the particles in a tightly-wound orbit within the magnetic field. The two poles of the magnetic field then separates the charges of quarks and gluons. Finally, the properly charged gluons and quarks are allowed to merge into their respective positrons, neutrons, etc, which then forms into anti-matter in an isolated field.

I must admit...the thought of anti-matter in a bottle is an amusing image! Picture it.
"Wait! Be careful with that! No! Don't open the cork! Aaaaaaa!"...<BOOOOOM!!!!>

- Bomb…James Bomb

^ nothing like a good theoretical physics discussion to bring the bomb back out of hiding... :)

Heh...probably so. I'm still tired of ol' ThinkTanks, but none of the other games I play have a forum community like this place!

It appears a viable anti-matter engine HAS been designed. Look at the ACMF engine here:
http://www.engr.psu.edu/antimatter/documents.html

A brilliant concept. Fusion DOES make for some excellent propulsion (the theoretical concept has been around since Einstein days), but it still requires a lot of energy to sustain the process. So, they feed the plasma-mix with anti-protons to boost and maintain the fusion process. This could really work. Now we just need to devise a good "gas tank" for the anti-matter.

- Bomb…James Bomb

Last edited: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 at 2:11:24 PM

Ooooh.....and here's the "gas tank!"
http://livefromcern.web.cern.ch/livefromcern/antimatter/factory/AM-factory04-b.html

Thx for the thread, Vash! It appears I was a little behind the times in technology. We might be closer than we thought. Now we just need a more efficient way to generate the stuff!

- Jim

@ JB

Np, glad to see others taking interest in thinking about
this stuff...

About engine to propel us into the stars...
ive been thinking about that and thought
of a magnetic engine, because of the
tremendous amount of energy produced
by antimatter, should be strong enough
to emit an electromagnetic field to push
against the gravity emitted from other planets
galaxies and such.

Ty for the informative posts.

@TargetV

Ty for the linky.

Last edited: Thursday, September 15, 2005 at 8:53:26 PM

But remember, magnetism has nothing to do with gravity....
correct me if I am wrong please

Your wrong. North and south attract and north and north(or south and south) repels from each other defying gravity. :)

Hey James, ya know that antimatter engine link you showed us? Guess which campus PGG and I live next to...

@warfare

Im not sure if gravity and magnetism have nothing
to do with each other.

I was refering to the planet magnetic field (magnetosphere)
for the electromagnetic engine to push off of.

Also if gravity is caused by centrifgual force than
how does it also produce a magnetic field?

Because a planet does this both by rotating.
I know the earths core is made of iron and nickle,
but just rotating this stuff generates a magnetic
field?

And if so what are we doing driving cars.

JB, George, pls shed some light here... =)

Thx

Last edited: Sunday, September 18, 2005 at 2:49:23 PM

I don't know.
If possible I not sure we should either. I would think there's a large leap from making the explosive force of total annihilation of mater into something useful.

I don't see it like that. We still have Newton's three laws. Right now right now we push stuff around that's big and heavy at relatively slow speeds. Inefficient perhaps but we do it pretty well. If we can get smart enough to push efficiency close to 100 percent we would be close to energy nervona.

What ARE we going to do with that bottled antimatter?
:)

Alright, I'm back from drill....let's see, what do we have here?

First off, Magnetic force drops GREATLY with distance, so using a magnetic engine would require a lot of power and only be good within a solar system. Also, not all planets have a magnetic field.

Magnetism and Gravity are related through the unification theory, but they can't affect each other directly. For instance, when you put two north magnetic poles together, they repel. Gravity always attracts. They are different forces that simply work against each other, not cancel each other out. Besides, they behave quite differently. Magnetism has two poles, so you can change the force from push to pull, or even shield against its effect. Gravity has no poles, it ALWAYS pulls, and you can NOT shield against it. That's what makes it so dang infuriating to study.

Theoretically, the TRUE next-generation engine will be able to swap energy types. A quick example:
A rock can be heated so that it is hot to the touch. This is heat energy (obviously).
It can also be thrown across the field at a high velocity. This is kinetic energy.
If I could devise a device that converted the rock's heat energy directly into kinetic energy, we'd really have something! However, momentum must be conserved. If the hot, stationary rock suddenly cools and flies forward, then something must fly backwards to equal out momentum. However, kinetic energy is mass times the square of velocity. As long as we make the stuff flying backwards go much faster than the spaceship, it wouldn't have to weigh much.

Or, perhaps all this mucking about in hyperspace drive is pointless, and we need to get started on making the improbability generator!

- Bomb…James Bomb

^ thats what I was looking for.... Gravity and magnetism are 2 different forces...
as for the improbability drive..... Hehehhehe :P
its nice to know I am not the only one who loves the books...

I thought you can shield yourself from gravity...
string theory?
gravitons?
if you can divert "gravitons" away from you somehow then gravity will not affect you correct?

And the true next generation engine should be able to swap from matter to energy and back as well as energy types dont you think?
how? I dont know?
how the heck would you transfer kinetic energy into heat (besides friction) or maybe heat into radio waves?
how the heck would you transfer energy into matter? When we figure that one out, say hello to 3D printers that print the actual object...
star trek had something like that... Called replicators I think.....

But in order to do this...."you need energy to make energy..."
and I think you need alot.... So the outcome might not be worth the while....

All in the future.... Who knows....
maybe PGG and vash start their own matter/energy experiments and come up with something that works....
like real solid holograms? Or maybe an engine that has "Mr. Fusion" printed on the side so a time traveler from the 80's can use it to power his vehical..... (ha ha? Back from the Future anyone? :P )

Adios amigo's.... Great conversation we are having here

@JB

I was thinking more of the quantum magnetosphere,
kinda like how gecko's uses their micro hair on thier
toes to climb walls...

Im in a rush when I post sometime and dont go
into details as I should.

@warfare
its true I think, to believe that u can shield yourself
from gravity, depending on which theory you believe.

The universe contiunes to expand while gravity constantly
pulls, something is keeping us apart and I dont believe
its gravitons.

Regarding energy matter experiments, they are going to
have to wait for now, im still try to figure out how to put
together my electric hover craft... Not to mention it came
with instructions.

It may take awhile.