Forums Index >> General >> hah Kerry
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Too bad ur leaving now, no more fun threads. = ( :[
Thanks fil, but I don't care.
It doesn't mean anything anymore. So Kerry cursed. Probably does it all the time. Doing it in Rolling Stone makes him cool for the audience he's trying to reach. When he goes to a Black AMC Church, there'll be none of that.
Cheney cursed. And? Probably does it all the time. Does it change who he is? I doubt it. Its just that at that particular moment someone was close enough to hear him.
Does Bush curse? Who cares? Maybe he talks trash to Laura at bedtime. So? That's his business.
Its politics. I think it diminishes whoever uses it and I prefer it wasn't used in a professional setting, but then its also a reflection of American culture.
True, but I find it interesting that the dems. Made such a big deal over cheneys deal, when the only place I find that is WorldnetDaily...
Rolling Stone =/= Senate floor. Explore: context.
Indeed. Am I the only one who thinks that GW actually did F--- up our country? What short memories people have.
Et, you have to ignore content and context to think like these people. It's the art of defensive blathering. For a primo example...
http://mediamatters.org/static/video/russert-20040807.mp4
Rolling Stone =/= Senate floor. Explore: context.
True.
And, George W. Bush did F#@% up the war on terror.
And, Bill O'Reilly is a moron.
Nudge bump. People should see the clip.
Anyone that is undecided and is putting serious weight into Kerry's running on his Vietnam service should probably take a look HERE
first.
Yeah, thats true...the doctor who treated him stated in an interview that it was only a scratch...does this sound like the manchurian candidate to anyone? *spooky music*
What's also funny - though I doubt it will get picked up by the mainstream media - is that Rassman alledgedly switched to the GOP earlier this year....he was suppossedly a registered Democrat before then.
Who knows? Politics sucks anyway....people will do and say anything to get elected nowadays.
Chief, since that ad came out, senator mccain asked george bush deuce to condemn the add:
"WASHINGTON (AP) -- Republican Sen. John McCain, a former prisoner of war in Vietnam, called an ad criticizing John Kerry's military service "dishonest and dishonorable" and urged the White House on Thursday to condemn it as well.
"It was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me," McCain said in an interview with The Associated Press, referring to his bitter Republican primary fight with President Bush."
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/05/kerry.mccain.ap/index.html
If you think the ad wasn't politically motivated, you'll see the world more clearly when your backside loses a round inhabitant.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/05/gop.donor.ap/index.html
Additionally, if your reasoning for not voting for Kerry is that "he wasn't shot good enough," you might be an idiot. If George Bush Deuce's distinguished service in the National Guard impresses you, you might be an idiot.
Doesn't leave much choice there TH ;)
Not that he wasn't shot enough...that he wasn't honnest when he said he was....
Ho ill shoot them both badly so it will be even ok?
Filbert, is honesty the issue now? If you want to make a list, we can make a list.
Here's more linkages.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/printout/0,8816,599034,00.html
It's a good read. Take 5 minutes.
Last edited: Thursday, August 12, 2004 at 5:00:41 AM
Show me an article that says in Vietnam John Kerry faked injuries, killed children, raped women, pillaged villages, showed poor leadership, deserted his post, criticized his superiors, made necklaces out of vietcong ears....
Anything.
And if it's true...
He's still a hell of a lot more impressive than a guy who went and hid in Texas during the war.
Anybody who tries to criticize Kerry on his war record ought to take a closer look at their candidate, and themselves.
Why does Vietnam seems to matter so much now and not in '92 and '96?
Its just a game.
Somehow, this feels appropriate.
FORTUNATE SON
Some folks are born made to wave the flag,
ooh, they're red, white and blue.
And when the band plays "Hail To The Chief",
oh, they point the cannon at you, Lord,
It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no senator's son,
It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no fortunate one, no,
Some folks are born silver spoon in hand,
Lord, don't they help themselves, oh.
But when the taxman come to the door,
Lord, the house look a like a rummage sale, yes,
It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no millionaire's son.
It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no fortunate one, no.
Yeh, some folks inherit star spangled eyes,
ooh, they send you down to war, Lord,
And when you ask them, how much should we give,
oh, they only answer, more, more, more, yoh,
It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no military son,
It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no fortunate one,
It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no fortunate one, no no no,
It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no fortunate son, no no no,
- John C, Fogerty
Last edited: Thursday, August 12, 2004 at 11:57:21 AM
That's it. I've been pretty diplomatic and collective about this issue, but after my Battalion meeting last night, I'm in the mood for one HELL of a rant! So buckle up:
You know, my time in the military hasn't been filled with renowned glory. I didn't come home with a bunch of medals. And, I've even been counseled for a couple things I didn't do right. But, when the call was made, I SHOWED UP, did my duty, and I have a bunch of soldiers who remember me doing it.
The best way to have a record as clean as Bush's is to do NOTHING! Daddy bailed him out of the Guard early so he could go to college. Waaaaaaah! 1/3 of my soldiers are doing their best to balance Guard and college right now. Hey Bush, if it was good enough for you, can you let the rest of us out who just don't want to play anymore?
Don't give me that "Support our troops" bull-crap as you cut our veteran benefits in the 2005 budget! We soldiers read the paper too. Oh yah, there is also a clause that says a soldier is supposed to have a 2-year break between deployments for a mission. So, he's broken it up into little chunks. I have soldiers that were activated for 9 months for Airport defense. They got a 6-week break and then 1.5 years for Homeland Defense. 3 months have passed and now they are now gearing up for another year in Kosovo. People with souls do not use friggin loop-holes to mess with people's lives! <Throws chair across the room>
Dammit to hell, if you want to vote based on military professionalism, then talk to a soldier! Did Kerry exaggerate his military time? EVERY FRIGGIN SOLDIER exaggerates their time in the military! By the time I'm forty, my sprained ankle will have become a dismemberment that required neural surgery! But, he did REAL TIME and was in REAL LEADERSHIP. If nothing else, he UNDERSTANDS what a soldier has to go through when he sends them off to duty.
I honestly believe that Bush doesn't have a friggin CLUE what he has done to those soldier's lives when it comes to family, raising their kids, and trying to get back into their civilian jobs! He is a two-faced moron who is trying to make himself look good through cowboy means! Somewhere along the line, I was hoping he'd realize that a collective error was made, and that he would adjust his foreign policy. Instead, he talks of bring ing soldiers home, while he builds a series of PERMANENT bases in Iraq!
It's bullshit. Dammit, can't you guys see it? This man spews nothing but bullshit, and my guys are paying for it.
Dammit, I'm done with this.
- BombJames Bomb
Word.
I love that time where Bush said in his speech:
"Iraq is trying to kill our country and so are we" or such.
So leave the guard.
What you're talking about is basically why I left the USAF. Its not specific to Bush either. I just got tired of moving every 3 years knowing that I really meant nothing to the military. For instance, when I deployed to Bosnia, my wife was just 3 months into her recovery from open heart surgery and taking care of our son, who was 1 yo at the time. My commander still wanted to send me (even though there was another captain who was single and wanted to go) for career development . For bullshit is more like it. The truth is she wanted me out of the squadron because I supported my flight commander's assessment of her. So I go bye-bye for a few months and my wife finally decides to go live with my parents after passing out for a few hours while alone with our son. Add to that all the BS I went through while deployed and yeah...where's my separation papers?
Perhaps if I had waited a bit to cool it, I might still be in the service. I still think about going back from time to time. I liked what I was doing and I was proud to serve, but I got tired of being used to boost someone else's career. I don't think that's going to change, regardless of who's president.
I mean, James still has troops going to Kosovo. We weren't supposed to stay there long either. XO
Last edited: Thursday, August 12, 2004 at 4:22:56 PM
So leave the guard.
I'm an officer. Resignation has to be approved. My battalion is short on officers. It has been put out for some time that NO officer is getting out until this blows over (yah..right) unless there are extreme circumstances. The rest of the soldiers have to wait until their ETS date. If they get assigned to a mission before the ETS, they are automatically extended. The system has controls to make sure that everyone doesn't bail when a mission occurs. I didn't have a problem with that. Its just that it seems to continue. Most of us really aren't sure when we can leave now that this has all started.
Yah, we are pretty spread out across the globe in areas that were supposed to be a quick-fix. I'm just hoping that Kerry will understand the concept of "quagmire" and start pulling back a bit. Yes, there will be repercussions, but we don't have the manpower to be executing a zero-tolerance policy for uprisings. Sooner or later, you have to let a country do some of the work itself.
Sorry to hear about the crap you went through with your commander in reference to your wife and kid. Thankfully, my command is pretty good, and we get along. But, we are all getting tired about the continuous changes and missions coming down the pipe.
- BombJames Bomb
Eeep. Just reading the news, and found a tax suggestion by Kerry I think is just ASKING for abuse if implemented (please note this is not a pro-Bush statement, just a statement that I think this one idea is bad )
"He (John Kerry) would also help companies create jobs with a tax credit to cover an employer's payroll taxes for a short time." link
Am I the only one who sees a new business fad? 6 month hires? "Hi, welcome to company X! Here's your job and your cube." 6 months later. "Here's the front door. Buh-bye!" And a whole new wave of employees come in. With connivance from the employee, it's also possible to fire and rehire the same person multiple times...
I am also getting sick and tired of being told about my morals from politicians.
President Bush (news - web sites)'s claim that the U.S. Economy had turned the corner and pledged to honor America's "moral code" with a $400 billion tax cut for the middle class.
"After four years of shifting the tax burden from those with the most to those most struggling to make ends meet, we believe it's time that America's tax code reflected America's moral code," Kerry said.
What the friggin' hell does my MORAL code have to do with my damn taxes??? My taxes are determined by my income, nothing more. If the IRS wants to start judging me by my moral stances in life, I am going to start shooting someone. XO Probably whoever tried to come up with the stupid rule in the first place.
TMO, reread those quotes again aye.
I think TMO was only jesting when he suggested that taxes will be based on our moral rating (I'm screwed). However, he does make a valid point that everything from taxes to war policy is being referenced to this ambiguous "moral code" buzz-word. America's "moral code" is undocumented and a matter of opinion from one person to the next, so they can make golden claims without providing details. I guess the two candidates are stating that it is immoral to continue to tax the middle-class while the upper-end continue to get the breaks (all for the sake of the trickle-down theory). Interesting quote from Bush. I thought there were a bunch of tax breaks. Who benefitted? Was it worth the enlarged deficit? And who was running things when this occurred? Oops <slap>, sorry, almost got into another rant there.
- BombJames Bomb
@ JamesBomb, Tally (and hopefully this will wake up stinkfingers - he's missed)
WAAAaaaaiiiiittttt a minute.
Who got us into Kosovo? Who pulled us out of Somalia? ANSWER
Who nailed the shit out of Libya? ANSWER
Who went after Bin Laden within HOURS of 9/11? ANSWER
Who suggested that "...the future war on terror should be fought alongside the UN...." ANSWER
WTF??!! Didn't the UN haul ass out of Baghdad after they were car bombed?
Last edited: Thursday, August 12, 2004 at 9:36:23 PM
JB nailed it.
Chief:
That's several thousand too many cans of worms dude.
@ Tally
Maybe I should have waited??? You reckon stinkfingers is in jail or something?
I thought for sure he would respond to THAT.
Gotta comment on Chief's last link of the video where a series of Veterans speak out against Kerry. Remember, if enough people know you, it isn't hard to collect a handful of people who don't like you. Be wary of those that show one side of the story. Most of these guys weren't even on his boat (and would they trust Bush instead?). I suggest you read this link to get both sides of the story:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/swift.asp
As for his three purple hearts, Kerry is up-front and truthful about the severity of his injuries:
Kerry had been wounded three times and received three Purple Hearts. Asked about the severity of the wounds, Kerry said that one of them cost him about two days of service, and that the other two did not interrupt his duty. "Walking wounded," as Kerry put it.
He doesn't request the awards, they are issued. Don't blame him if some awards were issued without personal examination. I do agree that there has been WAY too much emphasis on this though.
As for that star, check out this link:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp
He had witnesses for his actions. Was it Hollywood material? Not really, but he was the only one to jump out of the armored boat to chase the guy down before he had a chance to fire on them. It was signed by his superior and backed by his ship-mates, so it seems he deserved it.
The last few months before the election always breaks down to a mud-sling competition. When you hear something, always look up additional references to see if it is refuted. Kerry isn't squeaky clean to be sure, but given the choices...
- BombJames Bomb
Can I quote myself?
"Additionally, if your reasoning for not voting for Kerry is that "he wasn't shot good enough," you might be an idiot."
There is nothing Bush supporters enjoy more than shifting the spotlight away from Bush onto what they perceive as other people's pimples. If you take notice, someone brought up Somalia and Libya as somehow reinforcing our *need* for GBDeuce's White House residence. What was Bush doing during "Libya," wiping his nose of white powdery residue? Jesus dude, when your man is so flawed, what else can you do but strike up the slur wagon?
{ see how easy it is. }
And what's the problem with this: Who suggested that "...the future war on terror should be fought alongside the UN...."
Do you think we can do it alone? No, you say, but "WTF??!! Didn't the UN haul ass out of Baghdad after they were car bombed?"
Uh, mission accomplished? Wasn't that war over and won? Something tells me that the force that UN sent there was there for humanitarian reasons, because GB already flew to that carrier, raised that banner, egregiously misused a symbol of our alleged strength to score political points while Americans were dying in the streets of Baghdad.
Did any of you GB supporters watch 9/11? Did you notice the seen where his limo, on the way to inauguration (INAUGURATION!), was being pelted with eggs?
You didn't see that on the news, you didn't see that on Bill O'Reilly, and you didn't see those dead Americans when GB was standing on the blacktop with his thumbs up in the air.
Comedy. Absolute comedy.
Here's another link, dare read.
http://www.esquire.com/features/articles/2004/040729_mfe_reagan_1.html
Last edited: Friday, August 13, 2004 at 2:34:32 AM
Uhh... Wow.
Did any of you GB supporters watch 9/11? Did you notice the seen where his limo, on the way to inauguration (INAUGURATION!), was being pelted with eggs?
One egg. According
to a website I've posted elsewhere in one of these threads somewhere (believe it for yourself or not, your choice), called the 59 Deceits in Fahrenheit 9/11. The article is written by Dave Kopel (I don't know his references) who supported Nader in the last election. link
Again, you will believe this or not depending on your predispositions, naturally. But Kopel makes a decent show at neutrality, linking to Moore's answers to his criticisms (when offered). Personally, I suspect Kopel just doesn't like Moore, since he evidently also did the same kind of thing for Bowling for Columbine. XD
TMO, It's like ALL the eggs! One farm's worth maybe, gotta find a clip...
@ JB
I agree with you on the mudslinging...it's gonna get wicked. Personally, I'd like to see these two just square off and whomever is left standing after 15 minutes gets it.
Re: Swiftvets - I spent a good bit of time reading a lot of the sight. I haven't gone as far as confirmed that these guys are who they say they are....but I read one of the members, his commanding office if I'm not mistaken, actually denied his request for a purple heart. Alledgedly Kerry went back after the fact and had another officer sign off on the request after the guy that denied it rotated.
I haven't heard Kerry say it wasn't true - all I have heard is the DNC is trying to get it thrown off of the air. I had also read where the Swiftvets organization basically asked them to sue them if it was false.
And you know what's REALLY funny....why the hell are we even talking about Vietnam anyway?
Why is Kerry avoiding talking about his record?
This is why:
"Anyone that is undecided and is putting serious weight into Kerry's running on his Vietnam service should probably take a look HERE first"
-chief.
@JB - Well, I haven't officially resigned either. I separated from the USAF and I'm currently in Individual Ready Reserve (IRR) status. I still hold my rank and I suppose if things get really, really bad they can always dial me up. :S
I realize you're frustrated and that you really care for your troops, but ultimately we're warm bodies to the government meant to deliver or stop bullets. When we signed on the dotted line, there was always that possibility. In my case, I somehow managed to serve 5 years between two Gulf Wars while you had the pleasure of being in during 9/11 and thereafter.
Sometimes I feel bad about not being in during a "time of need" and sometimes I'm glad. I just hope you can keep doing your best without becoming jaded and bitter.
@Tally: LOL! The poor guy is lost without his cue cards.
@Rabban: My troops volunteered for the initial Homeland Defense. Its the kind of thing we signed up for. But it has really turned sour since then. We are getting called up at rapid-fire intervals to go overseas for "damage control" in those countries rather than protecting ours. Even my 1st Sergeant is getting down, and this guy is the Company's source of inspiration. I'm not especially good at faking it myself.
I'm surprised you haven't been called up. Almost every single guy in the ING (Inactive National Guard) has been called up in California. The only ones who didn't were those that were found to be unfit for duty and therefore discharged. Crazy stuff.
@Chief: I will concede that Kerry liked to collect medals, but that is not uncommon amongst soldiers. The man does have an ego, but find me a candidate who doesn't! (Well, okay, Jimmy Carter.) All I'm saying is that Kerry is certainly better than Bush at "doing his duty" and being honest. I mean, did you read how much Bush tried to hype his Guard time initially (before it blew up in his face)? This guy doesn't even HAVE a history to verify in the first place!
Look, guys, every politician has a good stock of skeletons in the closet. The point is you have to COMPARE these guys. Is Kerry perfect? HELL NO! We haven't had a perfect president since....ummmmmm....oh, nevermind. But when Kerry is saddled next to Bush, he looks like a much better choice in comparison. It is too easy to just prematurely pick your candidate, and then spend the rest of the days pointing out all the things wrong with the "other guy" just to support your original decision. You must be critical of all candidates at all times. Who knows? We might find something about Kerry that can't be disputed that will make me re-think my position. So far, what I've seen is not as serious as what Bush has claimed or done.
The whole eggs on Bush's car is about as inconsequential as Kerry's Purple hearts fiasco. Seriously, who cares if there were a few manic people pissed about not getting who they voted for? There are much meatier topics to nail him for.
- BombJames Bomb
@ JB
Very true - great point.
@JB - wow.
I've looked into that before. Seems the President or Congress has to authorize a partial (1M) or full moblization (unlimited)respectively. The first would be for 24 months while the second is for the duration of a war or emergency plus six months. Since your ING guys are going, it would seem that either recall has been put into effect. Maybe I'm just way down the list. Its been about 4 years since I left, so maybe there are plenty of guys that have left more recently than I. But, I keep updating my IRR info every year, so they know where to find me. Wait...is that the phone? :S
@Rabban: Didn't mean to put yo on edge. I'm not sure what your MOS is, but they are mainly grabbing us "ground" fighters. California has always been disturbingly low on man-power, so its not too surprising that every soldier is tasked as much as it is.
Yeesh, I need to quit hanging around here and get back to work! :P
- BombJames Bomb
Kerry is a total moron. BUT so far he hasnt screwed anything up as a president. Given the chance he may do just that. However, bush has successfully persued a personal and family vendetta against the middle-east oil goons and has used the USA to do it for him.
Candidate A is an unknown
candidate B is a known IDIOT
Logic takes A every time.
No matter who gets the presidency I can guaruntee that corporate $ will still get the laws made just the way they want.
B
@JB - I'm not really edgy, just playing. :) I was a Comm/Computer guy, so I guess there's plenty of those birds available. A retired heavy pilot that I work with said that at this point if I was recalled I'm be at flying a desk as a project manager type. He also thought the US would be pretty desperate by that time as well. So if I get the call, it may be too late anyway. :S
Cat that was photoshoped
B
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This thread has been locked
This one is an article from 2003, but I believe it is applicable. In lieu of everyone attacking Cheney (I really don't like cheney, but here it is anyway,) for his, uhh, speech, it appears that Kerry did the same thing. This ones for you, rabban!
Democrat presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry launches an X-rated attack on President Bush over Iraq and uses the F-word in a new interview with Rolling Stone magazine.
Kerry uses the expletive to describe his frustration over how his decision to back the president's resolution to go to war in Iraq has hurt his candidacy while Democrat front-runner Howard Dean is breaking ahead of the pack due in part to his opposition to the war.
''I voted for what I thought was best for the country. Did I expect Howard Dean to go off to the left and say, 'I'm against everything'? Sure. Did I expect George Bush to f - - - it up as badly as he did? I don't think anybody did,'' Kerry told the magazine.
Stephen Hess, a Brookings Institution presidential scholar, says he can't recall another candidate attacking a president by using foul language in a public interview, according to the New York Post.
''It's so unnecessary," Hess told the paper. ''In a way it's a kind of pandering [by Kerry] to a group he sees as hip... I think John Kerry is going to regret saying this.''
Rolling Stone spokesman David Wade told the Post Kerry was accurately quoted in the interview and the language used by the candidate is simply a reflection of the fact that Bush's Iraq policy ''makes John Kerry's blood boil.''
According to the paper, when asked yesterday by a New Hampshire student whether it's unpatriotic to attack the commander-in-chief, Kerry angrily cited his war record in Vietnam and fumed:
"I left some blood on a battlefield that President Bush never left anywhere."