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He already did my dad has him EVERYWHERE I try to find the link but it aint there I will try to post it later.
He's real and all believe.]
And athiest arrrrrre?
Not everyone believes, they just choose not to.
Well if he revealed himself all I want to know is the answer to the Da Vinci code
If he revealed Himself to me...... I would tell Him to put his pants back on.
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^ & ^^
ROFLMAO!
People look what I post """""""""""""""""""""he already did""""""""""""""""""""""" his name is Sia Baba and he lives in india and he said he will die when he is 86 or something (he didnt say or something it just that I cant remember)
Im afraid the finatics over the eastern way would still try to kill our god. XD For real. There NUTS I say. Other than that,, I would be on my best behavior. XD ;)
Last edited: Monday, June 05, 2006 at 3:24:25 PM
What if God revealed himself to all, but it turns out that mans representation of him (the Bible and Religion) has nothing to do with what the real God is? What if he doesn't even know you are praying? What if he doesn't have mysterious ways?
Who says that God revealing himself would have to follow some fictional biblical story?
God never says he will return.
@Cat
If He revealed himself what would follow? I'd hope for a little Q&A.
Why do you let your followers murder and rape us? Why do you let your Catholic priests sodomize our precious children? I think it's safe to say that we really don't like this. Isn't your Catholic hierarchy hand chosen by you from the top down? Are you afraid to admit to making a mistake in your choices? Can you please admit the mistake and let our children grow up in a normal, ethical and safe environment?
Why do you make your followers suffer so much? Why do they die at the hands of other religions? Can't you put a stop to this? Why do you let all those Church buses crash? Why do you let all your religious followers die in plane crashes, terrorist attacks, car accidents, famines, floods, hurricanes, tornados, etc.? Is this part of 'Your Plan'?
Why are their so many conflicting religions? Did you make man so screwed up that he cannot hear the 'true' word of God... Yours? Every religion that exists today and every one that has existed throughout history has professed that THEIRS is the only true religion. Did you come to Earth as Zeus once? Did you make all these religions because you thought certain societies could only understand certain concepts? What about the Jews? The Muslims? The Baptists? The New Adventists? The Mormons, Hindus, Incas, Mayans, Protestants, Apaches, Buddhists, Methodists, Gideons, Greeks, Quakers? The Catholics (American, European, South American, etc.)? Were you just looking for some diversity or is it just a childish game to see who will follow the 'right' religion? Which is the 'right' religion? I'm sure many denominations would REALLY like to know that they're worshipping the 'wrong' God, don't you?
Was physics different when Noah built the ark? I mean, seriously... How did he get all the animals from all over the world... And the dinosaurs, etc. On that boat? How did he get penguins to the Middle East? How did he get them back after the big flood? Why didn't the dinosaurs eat all the sheep? I know from reading that you are jealous and envious and want nothing more than for all of us to believe in you... Wouldn't you like to let us in on your secret? Come on, how'd he do it?
Who can hear you and communicate with you? Are the Catholics correct in saying that only their priests can communicate with you? Why is this? To ensure the hierarchy and security of the Catholic Church? Or, can anyone communicate with you as most of the other religions believe?
Why is there war? How does it agree with "Thou Shalt Not Kill"? Why are there so many wars in Your Name?
If you made Adam & Eve first, and they had three sons Cain, Abel & Seth, what happened next? There's 4 men and 1 woman, right? What happened next to propagate the species? Who did the children marry? Who did they procreate with? Isn't incest bad? Adam & Eve had other children, so brothers and sisters; or Eve's sons and Eve were having sex? God, why aren't we all retarded genetic mistakes? Why didn't the whole human race get physically deformed and mentally handicapped from mixing familial genes? Surely you knew about the gene problem, right? Or did it not exists back then? Did you just create it recently in one of your more spiteful moments?
The Ten Commandments: "Thou shalt not kill." Didn't you order Moses to do a lot of killing? Why did you do this if it violates one of 'your' commandments? Why did he wipe out entire cities, kill all the men and rape the women and children?
Why did you put in print all those scientific lies about a Universe you supposedly created? Why the stars held up in the 'firmament'? Why the Milky Way of lost souls? Why the earth-centric universe? Did you not think we would figure it out?
I've heard a lot of 'theories' on the whole fossil thing and evolution. Did you just put all this evidence here to confuse us? If so, why?
Why did you make us such sinful creatures? You are all-powerful and all-knowing, right? Why did you give us the ability to do things you call sinful? Why, then, do you punish us for doing exactly what you created us to do?
Should we stop modern medicine? Are we violating your will as so many seem to think? Is it bad to fix health problems ourselves for things that you didn't seem to consider?
How does 'immaculate conception' work? We really don't understand that one down here. Are you just covering for some out-of-wedlock behavior?
Why do you make us like things that aren't 'good' for us? Why alcohol, cigarettes and drugs? Why cheeseburgers and fries? Is it that 'free-will' thing again?
Why did you give men a life-long desire for beautiful women? Is it just a test of our will and monogamy? Why do 20 year olds desire the same voluptuous women of child-bearing age as 30, 40, 50 and 100 year old men? Was it to ensure the propagation of the human race? But, doesn't this cause men to stray and covet thy neighbor's wife?
Why did you give your followers such a strong ability towards intolerance and hate? Aren't you a loving God? Why do we massacre those unlike ourselves or those that have a 'diversity' of religious belief? Is this part of your plan too? Do we just not understand?
Are we really supposed to believe the fable of Jonah and the whale? Wouldn't Jonah have drowned? Or, wouldn't he have been killed from lack of oxygen in the whales stomach? Or, wouldn't he have been digested by the acids in the whale stomach like everything else? Is this just a a mythological fable? If so, for what reason?
Are we really supposed to believe that the Sun stood still? We've been watching it for a very long time and it just doesn't do that. There seems to be issues of physics (such as gravity and orbital mechanics) that just doesn't allow that to happen. Did you intervene and make is so? Did you really just do this so 'your' army could keep on killing? Doesn't that violate one of your Ten Commandments that "Thou shalt not kill"?
If you flooded the Earth during Noah's boat ride, what did all the animals eat when you finally let them back on dry land again?
Why did you let the Catholic Church burn and imprison scientists during the Inquisition? Do you not like us to discover the workings of our planet and the universe? Is that just 'your' secret?
If your followers spread out across the globe to spread your word to everyone, how did they get across the oceans to other continents before sea-worthy ships were ever built? Were the natives of the Americas just forgotten?
Why did you tell us in the Bible that the Earth, Sun, moon and the Heavens are fixed on pillars and cannot move?
Why didn't all the animals die off after Noah's Ark? We know that one male and one female of each species are not enough for the species to survive and propagate. Studies of reproduction of many, many species indicate that it would simply not be possible. Did things work differently back then?
Why do you say you created two lights in the sky: the Sun and the moon? We know the moon doesn't really generate any light. It's just a reflection from the other light, the Sun, right? Why did you tell us this? Isn't it a false statement?
How are we to believe that we were created from dust? There's lots of evidence that we evolved from other creatures. Should we just ignore this? Should we be happy to have been created from dust rather than a fish?
Why do many of your followers refuse medical treatment? What part of your 'Grand Plan' does this fulfill to have your followers die horrible, early deaths?
The Bible appears to have an error with regards to how long Noah's flood lasted. Genesis says it was 40 days in one part and 150 days in another. Which is it? Why did you let this error exists in your Holy Word that we are supposed to believe is 100% accurate and true?
Are you really going to turn the Moon into blood before you come again? Why? Is it really 'blood' or just discolored from an eclipse?
What does the term 'day' mean to you? Is it different than our 24 hour day? Some of your followers seem to think so, saying that "God's days are not the same as our days." Some even claim that a single day of yours might have been billions of years and that accounts for fossils and all the geologic formations we see. Which is it?
Did Adam really live to 930 years of age? Seth 912 years? Enos 905 years? How are we supposed to believe this, when over history, man is living longer and longer due to cleanliness and medicine? Were things cleaner back then? Had you not created all the illnesses and disease that you've given us now?
Why do we find evidence of all the creatures that lived before us, yet most of them are not mentioned by you? And, why do we not find evidence of some of the species you mention in the Bible like fiery serpents or giants that towered over us like we were grasshoppers?
Why did you let Hitler massacre so many people? Why was the Catholic Church silent on this genocide? What happened to "Thou shalt not kill"? He said he was carrying out your will. Was he? If so, what part of your plan did this fulfill? If not, why didn't you stop him?
Why did you let the Explorers of the New World murder so many natives? If we are all your children, why did you let them kill so many of your children? Is this some kind of experiment or game for you?
If you made all the creatures on earth, why do you like us to kill animals for you in sacrifice? Why does this make you happy?
Why do you punish babies for the wrong-doings of their parents?
Why do you give us the capabilities for logic and reason, yet do not want us to apply these skills when it comes to you?
Why did you create the forbidden fruit on the Tree of Knowledge? If you didn't want Eve to eat the fruit, why create it in the first place? And, why did you create the serpent who tempted Eve to eat the fruit? Were you afraid she wouldn't without being tempted by a serpent? Is this a game to you?
Why did you give us "dominion" over the earth and all creatures on it? We're destroying your planet and the list of your creatures we made extinct is endless. Can you please do us a favor and take this power away from us?
How old is the earth? The universe? You gave us plenty of evidence that they were not created 8-10 thousand years ago as your book says (and your followers try to force on us). You are omniscient, so we won't bore you with our findings because you already know, right? Are you planning a 2nd edition to the Bible to correct these blatant errors? Was the devil on your editorial staff?
Why are all the translations of the Bible so different? Why are you allowing man to revise your word?
Why must I be forgiven for my sins by you, who has committed sins far greater than those of which I am capable? I have not unleashed a flood, killing the entire planet's population save for a handful of people who worship me unquestioningly. I have not asked a man to sacrifice his son to prove his loyalty to me. I have not tormented another man, causing his family and property to be destroyed, solely so I could prove to someone that the man would remain devoted to me. I might have told my boss I was sick and went skiing instead. But how can mine be the greater sin requiring forgiveness?
In a related question, why do people worship a God who would kill millions who do not follow him, with floods or fire rained down from above, but those same people will cry ‘Madman’ when a country's leader eliminates millions in a program.
Are we free to make our own choices? If we are, how can we say that you opened up an opportunity for us? Wasn't the opening of that opportunity the result of someone else's free choice?
If we are all Gods Children, Why is Jesus so special?
Why does the bible have an "Old Testament" and a "New Testament"? Didn't you get it right the first time? If you are infallible, why did you need an update?
If there are so many religions and each thinks their beliefs are the only right ones and that everyone else is wrong, then most people are wrong - and if one religion is right, most people on the planet consider that one wrong. So which religion is the one that is right?
Why are people almost always the same religion as their parents are? Why is it that if you had been born to a Jewish family, you'd be Jewish; if you were born to a Muslin family, you'd be Muslin, etc. You'd still be the same person - same soul - but different religion. Could it be that religion is just brain washing? Children are easy to brain wash. In fact, we are all brain washed - that's why we have the religion we have, the politics we have, all of our belief systems - because someone brainwashed us. Not that it's always bad to be brainwashed, but we simply believe what we were taught to believe by people who believe what they were taught to believe. Why are you the religion you are? Would you be a different religion if you'd been taught a different one as a child?
@44
I am not sure if you are quoting CAT with that long post of questions or if you just formatted that for impact. So I am not sure who I am replying to....
Anyway, I LOVE the questions in the post above. I have asked many of them time and time again.
It reminded me of a conversation I had with a close friend of mine who is very religious. I asked about the dinosaurs, and about the timetable that science is revealing vs the timetable from the Bible. His answer is that the bones of the dinosaurs are simply a puzzle that god planted for us to work around. He told me that God is playing a trick on us so we can eventually get a better understanding of our place in the universe by understanding the conundrum God has put before us.....
I listened to his long and schooled reply about the dinosaurs and carbon dating, then when he was done, he asked me if I finally understood? I told him that what he has learned and what he believes is the biggest pile of Shi& that I have heard in a long, long, long time.
In the same conversation, I asked him about how sternly the catholic church frowns upon incest. Even to the point that there is supposed to be no traceable lineage between two that marry... And yet Adam and Eve, Noah and posse, and others clearly had to resort to incest in an effort to repopulate the world. I asked how is it that there were no genetic mutations as brothers and sisters had to get it on to make babies.... His answer was that they were closer to god, and that the farther we (as a race ) have gotten from god, the more we suffer from problems like genetic mutations.....
At that point, I ended the conversation and never talked to him about religion again.
Some - terror. Others - worship.
WHat would happen?
We'd all complain and bitch and moan.....
Then he'd think to himself... "Hmmmm... This was one of my early projects and boy it just isn't turning out well. I guess, Noah, Moses, Isiah, and Jesus are keepers. Oh well, one solar flare and... There, that's better.. So much more quiet and peaceful. Those yapping chunks of meat... Sheesh! Now let's see... I know! Let's try the thing we did on Tau Seti IV.... That worked out marvelous.... Beings made of energy and light... So beautiful.. This whole meat and blood thing was a disaster. Hey Lucifer, I'm setting up another one on Tau Seti IV... Should be much more fun this time."
Last edited: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 at 10:07:23 AM
Majority of people would refuse to believe it's true. The God worshippers would been babbling about it non-stop and be put on ignore by normal folks.
You don't have to let go of one rope before grabbing the other. But you'll have to let go of one if you want to swing forward.
... What if 'I' was god? And I never noticed before, would you all bow down and worship me?
44! Lick the turd off my shoes!
Edit: as I submitted this, the song "straight to hell" by the clash came on.
Last edited: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 at 12:36:50 PM
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A few answerable things I found.
I mean, seriously... How did he get all the animals from all over the world... And the dinosaurs, etc. On that boat?
Did Adam really live to 930 years of age?
Why are people almost always the same religion as their parents are?
1- Hell no, there were no dinosaurs then
2- Wth? Of course not, they measured the periods of time we call "years" differently back then.
3- Because their parents teach them that way. More people than you realize change what they follow when they grow up, feeling what they were taught by there parents was wrong.
There are those and many more, some of which are funny, which I listed. :) Nice Q&A though, that's pretty good. :P
I use multi-billion dollar military satellites to find tupperware hidden in the woods... What do YOU do?
^ Ignore those answers. ;)
Concerning 44's "cut and paste" list of questions. Just asking those sorts of questions are not a win, but a lazy way to supposedly validate an already held disbelief in God and/or the Bible. If someone was really interested in finding out the answers to those questions, first, they'd need to be asked correctly, meaning that many of those questions start from a false assumption or make an incorrect accusation. Secondly, once a reasonable question was posed, those interested could find the proper resources to discover a satisfactory answer and I assure you PTT isn't the place to start.
Really, for anyone to take that list seriously shows an unwillingness to learn the answers before making a decision. Kinda like when some "fact" is presented in "The Da Vinci Code". Some will question that assertion will others will say, "See, I knew they were lying all along".
@Rabban. You missed my point. Cat asked, 'what would happen if God revealed himself?'. My message was simply that I would have a lot of questions...many of them very similar to those posted above. If you don't like the way the questions are worded, or dislike the implications they make, explain why that's the case. But, don't take what seems to be an underhanded crack at me for a "lazy" cut and paste of unreasonable questions in an inappropriate forum. I don't see it that way.
The doubters have good points...but I'll attempt to answer the question I think cat intended.
Yes. If god made himself obvious and it was demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt of his existence and the truth of his "Word", then yes, I would be a believer. A person who doesn't believe something that is demonstrated to be true beyond doubt is an idiot.
But I wonder if the subtext of this question is this proposition: atheists deny the existence of god despite the obvious signs of his existence (and signs of course are all the earthquakes, tsunamis, "miracles" et al...in other words, natural phenomena explained by physical laws but attributed to god by the desperate, ignorant, religious panderers or the extremely hopeful.
Allowing my proposition "a person who doesn't believe something that is demonstrated to be true beyond doubt is an idiot," I'm not sure how you classify a person who believes something not demonstrated to be true, in fact, not only is god's existence not proven, but most of the acts attributed to him throughout the ages, (earthquakes, tsunamis et al) have been demonstrated to have nothing to do with the supernatural...
So, a person who believes in something despite the evidence, contrary to evidence...well, isn't that bordering idiocy? Or is it mere desperation, ignorance, or a sign of extreme hopefulness?
^That's not the answer she was looking for. Try again, stink.
@ 44 - I'm not quite sure how to read your last sentence to me. Did you mistakenly leave out a word? Anyway, when I said, "lazy" way, I meant that after asking the question(s), for someone to sit back and wait for a good answer (when none is expected) is an easy way to continue in their disbelief. If those were your questions, how much of an effort have you made to discover meaningful answers? I mean, we all know that sort of thing doesn't fly in the political threads, so why should it here?
But let me just take on the first one. "Why do you let your followers murder and rape us?" You see how much is implied here. God's letting this happen. Well, I guess so, but he's letting everyone do this if they desire it, so that OK? But his followers are doing this. Well, how do you define who's really his follower? Someone that just attends church or says they're a Christian? I suppose you could be wondering about the Jews, why they're allowed to do such things. Anyway, it is common for Jews to rape and murder people? Its as if they're coming to town to pillage next Monday, so get ready. There's also the idea that you want God to stop this. Fair enough I suppose, but why stop there? Why not ask him to stop all wrong doing? Then it comes down to God stopping you and I from doing things. And how shall he stop us? Lightening or just making our bodies stop working when we start to perform the act? Imagine trying to anything wrong and your body just suddenly freezes. Good stuff. Then there's the idea that God somehow condones rape and murder, which he doesn't. But in general the question is posed from ignorance of who God is based on how he's revealed himself in the Bible and how he does things. A little understanding could be gained by simply reading the text and putting together a big picture and allow God to have every attribute attributed to him. Love and wrath. Justice and mercy.
But there is hope. At some point, God will put an end to these acts on a large scale, but for now, we have to be satisfied that he'll punish those who do such things and that true followers will stop as well as they allow God to work in their lives.
@Stink - Agree that only the ignorant would offer that God exists based on the occurance of earthquakes. However, rejecting God because such a person offers such a proof, is about as ignorant too.
If God revealed (himself) to all , what would happen...
He get bombarded by people begging to be an admin or moderator.
Like a midget at a urinal, I was going to have to be on my toes.
Invite a retard to a picnic and you'd better expect to get drool in the potato salad.
Lol
rabby: "However, rejecting God because such a person offers such a proof, is about as ignorant too."
not ignorant, but incomplete.
Then there's the idea that God somehow condones rape and murder, which he doesn't.
Are you sure?
It doesn't take much insight at all to interpret this one.
Numbers 31
1And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites: afterward shalt thou be gathered unto thy people.
3And Moses spake unto the people, saying, Arm some of yourselves unto the war, and let them go against the Midianites, and avenge the LORD of Midian.
4Of every tribe a thousand, throughout all the tribes of Israel, shall ye send to the war.
5So there were delivered out of the thousands of Israel, a thousand of every tribe, twelve thousand armed for war.
6And Moses sent them to the war, a thousand of every tribe, them and Phinehas the son of Eleazar the priest, to the war, with the holy instruments, and the trumpets to blow in his hand.
7And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.
8And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.
9And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.
10And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.
11And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.
12And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.
13And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.
14And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.
15And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
16Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
17Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
19And do ye abide without the camp seven days: whosoever hath killed any person, and whosoever hath touched any slain, purify both yourselves and your captives on the third day, and on the seventh day.
20And purify all your raiment, and all that is made of skins, and all work of goats' hair, and all things made of wood.
21And Eleazar the priest said unto the men of war which went to the battle, This is the ordinance of the law which the LORD commanded Moses;
22Only the gold, and the silver, the brass, the iron, the tin, and the lead,
23Every thing that may abide the fire, ye shall make it go through the fire, and it shall be clean: nevertheless it shall be purified with the water of separation: and all that abideth not the fire ye shall make go through the water.
24And ye shall wash your clothes on the seventh day, and ye shall be clean, and afterward ye shall come into the camp.
25And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
26Take the sum of the prey that was taken, both of man and of beast, thou, and Eleazar the priest, and the chief fathers of the congregation:
27And divide the prey into two parts; between them that took the war upon them, who went out to battle, and between all the congregation:
28And levy a tribute unto the LORD of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep:
29Take it of their half, and give it unto Eleazar the priest, for an heave offering of the LORD.
30And of the children of Israel's half, thou shalt take one portion of fifty, of the persons, of the beeves, of the asses, and of the flocks, of all manner of beasts, and give them unto the Levites, which keep the charge of the tabernacle of the LORD.
31And Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the LORD commanded Moses.
32And the booty, being the rest of the prey which the men of war had caught, was six hundred thousand and seventy thousand and five thousand sheep,
33And threescore and twelve thousand beeves,
34And threescore and one thousand asses,
35And thirty and two thousand persons in all, of women that had not known man by lying with him.
36And the half, which was the portion of them that went out to war, was in number three hundred thousand and seven and thirty thousand and five hundred sheep:
37And the LORD'S tribute of the sheep was six hundred and threescore and fifteen.
38And the beeves were thirty and six thousand; of which the LORD'S tribute was threescore and twelve.
39And the asses were thirty thousand and five hundred; of which the LORD'S tribute was threescore and one.
40And the persons were sixteen thousand; of which the LORD'S tribute was thirty and two persons.
41And Moses gave the tribute, which was the LORD'S heave offering, unto Eleazar the priest, as the LORD commanded Moses.
42And of the children of Israel's half, which Moses divided from the men that warred,
43(Now the half that pertained unto the congregation was three hundred thousand and thirty thousand and seven thousand and five hundred sheep,
44And thirty and six thousand beeves,
45And thirty thousand asses and five hundred,
46And sixteen thousand persons;)
47Even of the children of Israel's half, Moses took one portion of fifty, both of man and of beast, and gave them unto the Levites, which kept the charge of the tabernacle of the LORD; as the LORD commanded Moses.
48And the officers which were over thousands of the host, the captains of thousands, and captains of hundreds, came near unto Moses:
49And they said unto Moses, Thy servants have taken the sum of the men of war which are under our charge, and there lacketh not one man of us.
50We have therefore brought an oblation for the LORD, what every man hath gotten, of jewels of gold, chains, and bracelets, rings, earrings, and tablets, to make an atonement for our souls before the LORD.
51And Moses and Eleazar the priest took the gold of them, even all wrought jewels.
52And all the gold of the offering that they offered up to the LORD, of the captains of thousands, and of the captains of hundreds, was sixteen thousand seven hundred and fifty shekels.
53(For the men of war had taken spoil, every man for himself.)
54And Moses and Eleazar the priest took the gold of the captains of thousands and of hundreds, and brought it into the tabernacle of the congregation, for a memorial for the children of Israel before the LORD.
: :
Edit comment:
Again with the Midianites! Why are they the poster children of the unbelievers? Perhaps because they identify with them? :P
Anyway, thought I would defer to Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary written in 1706. There's also a more complete reply with the link if anyone's interested.
Verses 1-6 All who, without commission from God, dare to execute private revenge, and who, from ambition, covetousness, or resentment, wage war and desolate kingdoms, must one day answer for it. But if God, instead of sending an earthquake, a pestilence, or a famine, be pleased to authorize and command any people to avenge his cause, such a commission surely is just and right. The Israelites could show such a commission, though no persons now can do so. Their wars were begun and carried on expressly by Divine direction, and they were enabled to conquer by miracles. Unless it can be proved that the wicked Canaanites did not deserve their doom, objectors only prove their dislike to God, and their love to his enemies. Man makes light of the evil of sin, but God abhors it. This explains the terrible executions of the nations which had filled the measure of their sins.
Verses 7-12 The Israelites slew the Kings of Midian. They slew Balaam. God's overruling providence brought him thither, and their just vengeance found him. Had he himself rightly believed what he had said of the happy state of Israel, he would not have thus herded with the enemies of Israel. The Midianites' wicked wiles were Balaam's projects: it was just that he should perish with them, Hosea 4:5. They took the women and children captives. They burnt their cities and castles, and returned to the camp.
Verses 13-18 The sword of war should spare women and children; but the sword of justice should know no distinction, but that of guilty or not guilty. This war was the execution of a righteous sentence upon a guilty nation, in which the women were the worst criminals. The female children were spared, who, being brought up among the Israelites, would not tempt them to idolatry. The whole history shows the hatefulness of sin, and the guilt of tempting others; it teaches us to avoid all occasions of evil, and to give no quarter to inward lusts. The women and children were not kept for sinful purposes, but for slaves, a custom every where practised in former times, as to captives. In the course of providence, when famine and plagues visit a nation for sin, children suffer in the common calamity. In this case parents are punished in their children; and for children dying before actual sin, full provision is made as to their eternal happiness, by the mercy of God in Christ.
Verses 19-24 The Israelites had to purify themselves according to the law, and to abide without the camp seven days, though they had not contracted any moral guilt, the war being just and lawful, and commanded by God. Thus God would preserve in their minds a dread and detestation of shedding blood. The spoil had been used by Midianites, and being now come into the possession of Israelites, it was fit that it should be purified.
Verses 25-47 Whatever we have, God justly claims a part. Out of the people's share God required one in fifty, but out of the soldiers' share only one in five hundred. The less opportunity we have of honouring God with personal services, the more should we give in money or value.
Verses 48-54 The success of the Israelites had been very remarkable, so small a company overcoming such multitudes, but it was still more wonderful that not one was slain or missing. They presented the gold they found among the spoils, as an offering to the Lord. Thus they confessed, that instead of claiming a reward for their service, they needed forgiveness of much that had been amiss, and desired to be thankful for the preservation of their lives, which might justly have been taken away.
Now, if you equate war casualties with murder and keeping a virgin as a slave with rape, then...well...good luck with that.
Last edited: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 at 6:02:10 PM
If God proved his existence.
1) I would quickly start erasing all of my posts in this forum.
2) I would buy a "Jesus Loves You" Tee shirt.
3) I would ask for forgiveness for being such an idiot.
4) I would ask if any of the fables in the bible or if any of the conundrums of popular religious teachings are true, or man made.
5) I would be quite relieved that there is actually more to our existence.
6) I would ask if moses was just smoking crack or if god actually did have a chat with him.
Again with the Midianites! Why are they the poster children of the unbelievers? Perhaps because they identify with them?
Ah heck, I don't mind repeating myself. At least I can cut and paste.
At the risk of being an ass... But what the heck, in for a penny in for pound.
From this atheists point of view, if I may speak for the other heathens out there to the true believers;
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RE: religion and god.
We atheists DO get it. Yours is the best god. Yours is the greatest god. Yours is the only god.
All other gods that have come before and that will come are mere charlatans conjured by subspecies of human. They are false, spirits of the mind that offer no true enlightenment or path to salvation.
Only your religion addresses this god. Your high priests speak in behest of this god. Your books of faith are interpreted by the high priests and this knowledge is passed to the true humans by the high priests.
Your mission is to evangelize the world and rid it of all subspecies of human.
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See we DO GET IT.
And at the risk of sounding unrepentant. Is that all you're bringing to the table?
{WalMart free for over 24 months!}
Last edited: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 at 8:06:09 PM
Danke schon Flea...
If God revealed himself I'd ask him why he can't be rational--why he lets all this crap happen--why he can't just go away.
If <insert any name here> had the power to give me one wish, it would be 1a) that if God existed, he'd disappear in a puff of logic for being so irrational; or 1b) if he didn't exist, that all religion would promptly end, and we'd be able to weed out those who couldn't be good without fear of a hell.
Please tell me more about the "rational" thing and "all this crap". Honestly, if you were God, what would you do differently?
Seems God manifest itself pretty evidently in its work, aka the Creation aka the Universe. Look at the thing, dude, and tell me what more you want. If it's not mind blowing, I wonder what is!
God is cool: he created the Universe. And he created women too - thank God!
Woot!
Oh, I don’t know…Maybe we would stop killing each other over stupid little differences in philosophies and start actually being kind to one another. Or not…
Oh hell yeah! move over middianites! the True Christians gonna kill them some more heathens! In a new kickass video game! Awesome!
"Imagine: you are a foot soldier in a paramilitary group whose purpose is to remake America as a Christian theocracy, and establish its worldly vision of the dominion of Christ over all aspects of life. You are issued high-tech military weaponry, and instructed to engage the infidel on the streets of New York City. You are on a mission - both a religious mission and a military mission -- to convert or kill Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, gays, and anyone who advocates the separation of church and state - especially moderate, mainstream Christians.
Your mission is "to conduct physical and spiritual warfare"; all who resist must be taken out with extreme prejudice. You have never felt so powerful, so driven by a purpose: you are 13 years old. You are playing a real-time strategy video game whose creators are linked to the empire of mega-church pastor Rick Warren, best selling author of The Purpose Driven Life...
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If noone could dispute it, we would all become the religion which the said 'god' was from.
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...but it's not going to happen, is it? (rhetorical question, so please don't bother telling me how earthquakes are indisputable evidence of god)