Normally I'm not one who would listen to the news and start a conversation about it, but Osama Bin Ladin just made a tape that proved he was not dead. This was the only trace we had of him since 2,001. And guess what else? Ya wanna know what the tape said? Osama HIMSELF stated that new attacks were being planned on the US, but they would not be fired if we pull out of Iraq. We would sign a "long term peace treaty" if we pulled out he says. And our grrraaannnd finalle... Our response?

NO!

" We don't negociate with terrorrists, we stop them. "

Thoughts??????

Last edited: Saturday, January 21, 2006 at 4:23:35 PM

Blatant stupidity.
We could've gained security there even without giving up our civil rights *ahem*spying*ahem*.
What an utterly stupid decision.

In any struggle between between good and evil only one side has anything to gain. Go ahead Monica, give in to evil. It might work.

Dear Tankster, our government is strong evidence for the theory of evolution, as there is absolutely no sign of an intelligent design therein. However, Bin Laden is also completely crazy and I wouldn't negotiate with him either. And you can be sure that any terrorist who shows any sign of developing common sense, or even a tad of humanity, would instantly be turned on by his fellows anyway. My advice, for what it is worth,...Stick to the real world of tanks and electronic mayhem. :)

How do you think all the families of the world trade center victims, firefighters and police officers would feel if our government called a truce not even 5 years after the fact. Bin Ladin is not the muslim worlds chosen leader and should NOT be negotiated with. He is a sick manipulative psycho-babble P***Y who instigated the murder of thousands of poeple. He needs to rot in hell and I fully support any efforts to that end.

Dont get started on the WTC's theres a lot of people who think that was all to do with the government...but thats to much of a long story........

Look nobody deserves to die, no matter what they've done ok, we should not be able to choose who lives and who dies, thats Gods decision no one elses...let God be the judge of people as God will judge u as fairly as you judge others....

I'll take the chance that god would forgive me if I put a bullet in Bin Ladins head.

No one deserves to die?!?!? One word.....HITLER.

Wth are you talking about.....

Last edited: Saturday, January 21, 2006 at 4:57:46 PM

Ya saw it on da news too....amazing how crazy people in the world are...if u think about we r totally stupid to be fighting, having wars, and killing people......if we didnt have these things the world would be a better place and it would be easier to work together to help each other......not like its ever gonna happen though... :(

Youve never heard this before..? This is just some things people say, I have found better sites in the past with pictures and proof but I'll keep looking, but for now here it is..http://www.serendipity.li/wot/911_a_hoax.htm

^^Without Chaos, there is no Order.

@ Blind Cide: You probably realize that it's a little more complicated than good vs. Evil. We have done things wrong too.

@ Monica: Well his reqeust was probably something that we couldn't accept, but we could at least listen to see what he wants.

If our government can't protect us from terrorist attacks, maybe they SHOULD negotiate with terrorists.

Well I would have to say that we havent quite stopped them :P.

Name anything that even comes close to downing the towers.

Remind us please , bold warriors , which war was the last one.

Do you guys know what these terrorist really want? Get rid of the all the American/European talk. They want you to believe in allah as they do. I am not talking about becoming muslim, these people scare a lot of the muslims. If you don't believe like them, they believe its ok to kill you regardless of gender, race or age. This is not so much a story about what we "did to them" but of religion. We have seen this before..

@ Player 36, terrosits DO NOT negotiate. GOT IT! Look at history dammit. Think of HIlter and Europe in the 1930's. Hitler negotiated his way and THEN went to war. You cannot negotiate with idiots...They only believe in death. Get with it morons!!! :S

The swift loss of lives from the twin towers tragedy pales in comparison to the amount of innocent lives the Yanks have militarily erased year in and year out.

Don’t get me wrong. Bin Laden should go. But, Christian Fundamentalism is, in my mind, the root cause of all this anger from the Muslim world. Unfortunately, you liberal thinking Yanks are part of the same community as these right-winged folks, and until there’s some cohesiveness, there will just be more war.

Funny I never new Christians had a problem with Muslims. Better go kick my neighbors arse.

Yes, Christians are Nazis... I agree totally! %)

@Canadian Trash:
No doubt that ultra conservatives dominate the American administration. However, there are deep rifts in Islam that won't go away when America comes to it's senses. Islamic fundamentalists want to abolish secularism within Islam and isolate themselves from the West. Most of us depend on oil from the Middle East, and not enough is being done to reduce that dependence. I'd say the potential for war is growing.

@bc

Umm...off the top of my head
...torture... Bombing a city into the ground... Stealing of billions of dollars of money meant for the "rebuilding" of iraq... Shooting innocent people... Lying to a nation... Siphoning off millions of barrels of oil from the iraqi people... Rape... Murder...

^non-compliance with the geneva conventions

... Mass-misinformation

(the times)

//--------------------------------------------------

@kkb

Their are startling parallels in the way the bush administration runs to the way hitler ran before he started ww2.

...like Hitler, President Bush was not elected by a majority, but was forced to engage in political maneuvering in order to gain office.

...like Hitler, Bush began to curtail civil liberties in response to a well-publicized disaster, in Hitler’s case the Reichstag fire, in Bush’s case the 9-11 catastrophe.

...like Hitler, Bush went on to pursue a reckless foreign policy without the mandate of the electorate and despite the opposition of most foreign nations.

...like Hitler, Bush has increased his popularity with conservative voters by mounting an aggressive public relations campaign against foreign enemies. Just as Hitler cited international communism to justify Germany’s military buildup, Bush has used Al Qaeda and the so-called Axis of Evil to justify our current military buildup.

...like Hitler, Bush scraps international treaties, most notably the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty, the Biological Weapons Convention, the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty, the Convention on the Prohibition of Land Mines, the Chemical Weapons Convention, the Kyoto Global Warming Accord, and the International Criminal Court.

...like Hitler, Bush is willing to inflict high levels of bloodshed against enemy nations. Between 20,000 and (more probably) 37,000 are now estimated to have been killed, as much as a ro-1 kill ratio compared to the more than 900 Americans killed. In other words, for every U.S. Fatality, probably as many as forty Iraqi have died.

...like Hitler, Bush curtails civil liberties in captive nations and depends on detention centers (i.e., concentration camps) such as a Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, and any number of secret interrogation centers across the world. Prisoners at the camps go unidentified and have no legal rights as ordinarily guaranteed by the Geneva Conventions. They have also been detained indefinitely (for 2 ½ years already at Guantanamo Bay), though there is mounting evidence that many are innocent of what they have been charged--some, for example, having been randomly seized by Northern Alliance troops in Afghanistan for an automatic bounty from U.S. Commanders. Moreover, many Iraqi prisoners have been tortured, in many instances just short of death. Recent U.S. Documents disclose that as many twenty have died while being tortured, and twenty others have died under unusual circumstances yet to be determined.

...like Hitler, Bush has become obsessed with his vision of conflict between good (U.S. Patriotism) and evil (anti-Americanism. Many in contact with the White House are said to be worried that he is beginning to lose touch with reality--perhaps resulting from the use of medication that seriously distorts his judgment. Possibly symptomatic of this concern is the increasing number of disaffected government officials who leak embarrassing documents.

...would you like me to go on?

//--------------------------------------------------

@ Nuts

...that may be true, but that belief is only held by a tiny minority of fanatics and despite ONE, I repeat 'ONE' major terrorist attack carried out in the name of these fanatics, that can in no way be justification for a fullscale war.

Last edited: Sunday, January 22, 2006 at 3:07:08 AM

Why We Are Losing Hearts and Minds
Wednesday, August 31, 2005
By: Keith Lockitch

http://www.aynrand.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=11351&news_iv_ctrl=1021

It all boils down to the "pointed stick" defense
"Er what do you do if a man comes at you with a loaded banana?
Com'n then attack me with the banana!
Blam! Blam! Allright then whos next?"

@bc

...your right. Winning hearts and minds IS the solution to the problem of jihadists... But I fear this war is NOT about the jihadists, its about money. Bush came to power through "investments" from major private companies. These companies are now being paid back through "contracts" for the rebuilding of iraq: a land where their is almost limitless wealth due to the anarchic situation of war and through their bush-granted immunity prosecution to their actions.

The "jihadists" are just an excuse to justify to an increasingly feeble minded nation. WHY do you think the rest of the world is against this war? And before you say "britain is supporting us", NO we are not! The war here is not supported by the populace... The day it was announced millions took to the streets in protest on mass-walkouts from work.

Edit: sorry, got a little bit worked up there

Last edited: Sunday, January 22, 2006 at 3:24:07 AM

@ bloop
This "war" is about many things. I didn't respond to this thread because of the "war", but whether we should have negotiated Osama. That is whole a different topic.

I do not believe the people in England or Spain agree that the fanatics carried out just "ONE" attack. Plus to blame the fanatics hatred towards us to a particular group (right wing fundies) I find almost laughable. They hate us all the same. They think "us" (the west, America/Europe) are luring there kids beliefs away with our lifestyle (like listening/watching to Britney Spears). Remember the Tali-ban and how they ran things, thats basically what they are looking for.

I agree Nuts. It's our way of life, plain and simple.

Would you want your daughter raised in a radical country governed by the Taliban? Me thinks no.

Why do folks overlook the human rights issue? They're monsters.

LOL

I thought everyone knew....they hate us because we are free.

You guys (and you know who you are) are a frigging trip. More snivel without a fact to back it up. The repitition of fantasy based talking points without introspection of the underlying facts...what did you pull your rumors from before the internet? Do you believe everything you read? Are you truly THAT gullible? You would make Dan Rather proud.

Anyone who tries to compare Hitler to anyone currently alive is only showing the weakness and desperation of a argument that, while impassioned, is void of validity and bereft of substance.

Basically - full of shit.

That being said, the West has made a ton of mistakes in prosecuting the war on terror.

Incidentally - at the end of the day it's an idealogical war, not a Jihad.

Case in point.....Sunnis killing Sunnis in Iraq.

Hell - I may wind up serving breakfast again. JJ.....fire up the George Foreman!!!!!!!!!

Hitler wanted the destruction of Israel. Currently there are those that want the destruction of Israel. You know who they are. How can you not make that comparison? How about a what if. What if there were no means in which to prevent this from happening as in most of WWII? Preventive measures are the only way you could dispute the comparison.

I think it's absurd that you can't make that comparison no matter how large or small the scale. I mean come on apples and pears are both fruit. They don't look the same. They don't taste the same. They're both friggin fruit though aren't they?

As you said, it is an ideology. I've read a substantial amount of articles implying that the comparison is ludicrous. I think those folks, to put it in very ugly terms, look at success rate as opposed to the basic ideology by both when it come to Israel.

Last edited: Sunday, January 22, 2006 at 11:35:54 AM

@ NUTS! & Rogue

My above post wasn't directed at you....was just being too lazy to list everyone it was aimed at.

@ Rogue

RE: Hitler

One of my points is that....Hitler actually followed thru on his threats (to exterminate Judaism as the state of Israel didn't exist yet).

Closest demon to him since: Stalin, with several ties for 3rd.

As I said earlier....irregardless of whether you like Bush or not (I haven't found many who answer "I kinda like him"), to compare Bush's policies to those of Hitler's shows just how ignorant one would be of history, and how mentally defective one has to be to compare the deaths of tens of millions of innocent men, women, and children to anything since. The closest comparisons: Kosovo and Rwanda.

Talk about anti-semitism and a real need to understand history lest you repeat it.......

Last edited: Sunday, January 22, 2006 at 1:50:36 PM

But, what I think, with all this talk of "iran" is that this is only the beginning. What link has osama to iran?

@ chief etc.

You are saying that noone will EVER achieve the heights of (dare I say it) evil that hitler managed?

Anyway... My point of the hitler thing WAS (even though I started ranting) that the world should not fall into the trap that hitler lead the germans into... Whether the end results are the same or not.

I don't KNOW what attrocities are being carried out, we are only subject to the media and the coverage which the government allows us to see. Therefore none of us should be too hasty in our decisions, on both sides...

@Chief
Hitler's Nazis killed more than 11 million people. Stalin was responsible for more than 20 million deaths, and Mao's Great Leap Forward killed about 30 million.

Last edited: Monday, January 23, 2006 at 9:15:59 AM

If all they are asking for is the US to pull out of Iraq, then this is proof that Al-Qaida no longer has the capability to mount 9/11-style attacks. Either way once the US does pull out of Iraq for whatever reason then al-Qaida will claim victory to save face for not being able to attack.

I'd say invite Osama over to sign a peace treaty, and then slap the handcuffs on him as soon as he picks up the pen.

That would be the all time greatest prank ever. I would laugh my as off. I just wish the world were more like that........ :S

"War on Terror" <- That statement alone is scary. Sad thing is terror will never end. Even if we get rid of OBL. Radicals and Money hungry idiots will always seem to do something to cause havok. I can see WW3 or the end in sight. I'll be long gone before that happens. Religion is the root of all evil :)

Mmmmmh good vs evil.........

Bush's family have had a long time investment partner: salem ben laden............

Footage of Rumsfeld shaking hands with Sadam when they placed him in control of Irak.........

Osama and Sadam both received, some time ago, training from the CIA..............

Evil sleeps with evil.

Let all those bozos kill each other.......

For those of you who are still capable of seeing some of the truth through all this mess.......

Come to Canada........ We are doing a pretty good job at ignoring the mayhem Bush 's administration is trying to get the planet in :).

My 2c

Edit: oh and btw.....Guantanamo is a pure act of evil......... There are no good and bad guy's in this story.............

Last edited: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 at 9:47:07 PM

@BA
I hear Canada is a pretty decent place to live. You do have MacDonalds and Starbucks, right?

@ Mag

Yes sadly we have those............ We are far from perfect XD

But lets just say that the American friends I have, don't feel like going back after they spent a couple of months here

Same thing with with other friends from all over the planet...... They just don't want to leave..... Lol

The difference is space....... More space, less people, makes us all less stressed....... And more open minded XD

You are welcome whenever you want Mag.

I dont care about Osamas comments. He is truly worried and in full retreat. False threats my friends. ;)

Yeah definitely no good or evil. We just killed 18 innocent Pakistanis because we thought an Al-Qaida leader was there. And even we did kill him, would it be morally right? Probably not, since we killed 18 other innocent people. We are just as bad as they are. What's this about "full retreat"? Bin Laden said something like this to Europe, they rejected, and London's subways got bombed.

They've made numerous threats to the U.S. And haven't done diddly since 9/11.

How can you people not say there is no good or evil in all of this. What the heck-be-you-a-smokin? You mean terrorist who cut the heads off of totally innocent people is not evil. What about the Twin Towers...have you forgotten? (see second sentence, second paragraph)

They terrorists started all this a while back. Remember the 1972 Olympic in Munich Germany? 18 Israeli athletes were brutally murdered by terrorist. Remember the Achile Lauro * cruise ship in the 80's that was hi-jacked? The terrorist threw a man in a WHEELCHAIR overboard.

If you go kill someone and then go hide in your neighbors house that is called compliance on a murder if your neighbor does nothing to turn you in.

I would love to read a current hi school or college history book to see what people are learning today. Please don't tell me you learn your facts on TV....

@ BAS

I'm all for a place where the beer flows freely and the women are loose. I freakin' love y'all....I don't care how liberal you are.

Ps - Bin Laden still sucks.

I'm thinking about starting a pool - time frame until Iran is a parking lot.

10 bucks a square...and I take Paypal.

Hes a freakin' terrorist do you guys acually think he would keep to a peace tready? No, thats what terrorist do is blow things up and people for that matter! Yes this is big news. This also means that our intellegence knows nothiong about Osama Bin Ladin's where abouts. If we don't get a break we could verry well find our selves in anouther attack.

Bin laden is bush's illegitimate son...

Thats why he took all our resources to fight
iraq.

This way he could get out his aggression
and save his son from the full force of
the US military.

I thought everyone knew that already.

Peace

Last edited: Sunday, January 29, 2006 at 12:11:31 PM

BA, I'm sure I would love less people and more space. I'm already about 3,000 miles from home though, and I'm looking to close that gap. Keep the fire going though, you never know.

Well since we're on the subject of terrorism, I might as well bring up that when the Mellenium Spire (for those of you who don't know, this is a monument, it is an extremely rediculasly tall SPIKE, based in the centre of Dublin City,Ireland) was erected (ha...ha,not funny) some idiots feared it was a terroist threat...

EM.... Yea RIGHT! I mean look at this thing!

Well well I ask myself?

.1 Is it possible to crash a plane into that?
.2 what idiot decided on the building of that? And
.3 hows is there anything remarkable about that? FCOL its the tallest building in Ireland! (130metres) LOL!!

And finally:

GO TO HELL BIN LADEN!!

Edger ;)