Forums Index >> General >> 9/11/01 Please Remember!
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Yes, and for all the soldiers that gave there lives, and all the people that died that day :[ :S :(
Leader of the Vigilante Tanks! May Vigilance Carry On!
I watched a documentary on NBC wich was filmed by a French journalist on that very day and it was very moving. I actually skipped the Colts/ Giants game to watch it and I cried like a baby.
Too bad the networks don't show clips of 9/11 more often.
Please pray for all the victims and for world peace.
KKB
While you're at it, remember the other tragedy: 9/11/73.
No I am not trying to undermine 9/11...but we must remember that there were other tragedies, some that we were responsible for, some not.
In France & in the world what happened against the US is a tragedy (no word to describe it in reality).
Here in France we heared & saw some americans boycott our wine as president Chirac would'nt send soldiers against Irak...For french that was a shame (boycott the wine) & this war seem today in balance about arguments...
However I want to say to all my american friends that I'm joining them (& all the france : informations since one week about this 'birthday') in their pain. I pray for a safer world... :o
¤fully loaded satellites will conquer nothing but our minds¤
^I bet you're sorry now, eh? I still won't eat potatoes unless they're called Freedom Fries and I've stopped giving to Jerry Lewis and the MDA.
^ Sorry but no I'm not sorry...I'm not responsible about the choices of my president...which has been elected against a facist... (that remember me a strange election (there wasn't any facist in US I agree 100%) in US... Paradox ?).
I don't know Jerry Lewis (wasn't he the opponent of bush ?) & the MDA (so don't take offense for the following ;) )...But I think you never eat authentical french fries...so I prefer you eat your freedom fries. XD
Where is the 44 always ironic & jokin ?
EDIT Ahh & I want to add that a french media told this morning : 'World economy is up since now 2.5years...In response of the 11 september [...] people in the world stay optimistic : that is the better answer to terrorism & it maintain terrorism in failure.
¤fully loaded satellites will conquer nothing but our minds¤
Last edited: Monday, September 11, 2006 at 10:00:49 AM
Someone's going to say it, so it might aswell be me...
9/11 was a tragedy
Killing innocent civilians in Afghanistan and Iraq to guarantee oil was greater tragedy
Anyone watch The Path to 9/11 on ABC last night? I thought it was pretty interesting to see all the events laid out as they were. Though I knew I had to take everything with a grain of salt in light of the controversy, it did bear out our unwillingness to act sometimes if it means we may get our hands dirty. Hmm, perhaps that's not the right way to put it. Unwillingness to face the consequences of our actions? Perhaps. But it did make me think of something else. If its a war on terror, why are we trying to arrest people? I mean, in war the goal isn't to arrest the opponent, but to kill them. Anyway, still a good show and I'm looking forward to watching the conclusion tonight.
Kkb, fyi. If you watch much television - or in my case, too much television - you won't go 15 minutes without seeing a clip of it. Unfortunately it is not for remembrance, but as a tool for justification (re: bloop's).
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/09/11/olbermann/index.html
My skepticism -- I think that's the right word, as opposed to "cynicism" -- toward the administration has been evident from -- I think the day it started was May 1 of 2003, the flight-suit story. I can remember interviewing several people that day and saying, "Isn't this a little premature? Isn't this a little theatrical? Isn't this a little staged?" and being assured that my opinion was ridiculous and alone and this was George Bush's historic moment, all the rest of that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vFQRuwlvn4&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ecrooksandliars%2Ecom%2F
Last edited: Monday, September 11, 2006 at 12:19:25 PM
Tally, I respect you man, but there is absolutely no content to that article from Obermann other than who he blasted.
Typical of him IMHO, he is from my parts of the world and little is thought of him.
FYI
KKB
2,997 Died on September 11th 2001
An Estimated
50,900–231,910 Iraqi Deaths
20,000 - 49,600 Afghanistani Deaths
This means that for every 1 individual killed from the terrorist attack, 23 - 94 individuals have been killed in revenge.
The tradegy just on keeps growing.
KKB, FYI, it's an interview, not a news article. I'm not sure what about that is typical of anything. I suppose it's typical of people with mouths to give interviews.
9/11 is one of these things that means something different for eveyone.
It's the epitome of all tragedies; the tip of the iceberg.
If it wouldn't have been filmed, would it exist?
The perfect media event.
^ a media event ????!!!! You mean that w/out camera ppl didn't die ? (little provocation...i see what you mean ;) )
& of course that is a media event : tat was a terrorist aim : ow to speak about them ? W/ a huge (awful) show.
I've speak about the day w/ friends : many of us remember exactly where & what we were doin...On my own I were in a big hi-fi store : on giant screen it was 2.50pm I saw ppl in front of the screens...i look & ask me what happened ? Nice realist film I thought on 1st. But as I eared what it was about & 10 seconds later we all saw the second fly crash !! 0.0 We stayed for 15 or 20 second in silence & after that I run back home calling on phone my wife : 'boot the TV !! Boot the TV !! Every channel that you want !! See ?? I think it's the 3rdWW begin !' I was under panic & still today as I think at this moment I've cold water in my back. :S
So to finish I'm french & I don't have any mind about the war of bush in Irak : again too much ppl died on each side. I leave in France in the departure where was the front line between french & german of the 1st WW & a part of the 2nd : each morning goin on work I see thousands of soldiers tomb (more than 6 military cimeteries next to the road I drive on). I never live any war (just see on TV but no confidence in media) but each morning I'm on the road I think to these soldier's (british german french cemetery (& I don't speak about american cemetery in Normandie)) who nerver ever asked to came here & fight another human...How could I be sorry that Chirac didn't send soldiers in Irak ? Ow couldn't I be sorry that americans & civilians died in Irak ? :[ :(
¤fully loaded satellites will conquer nothing but our minds¤
Last edited: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 at 1:14:19 AM
@aure. I was being sarcastic. No sorrow expected or deserved. Chirac was right.
Last edited: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 at 4:43:10 AM
^ I guessed you thought so my friend : I read most of your post & I thought your opinion was like this ;)
I don't pretend chirac was absolutely right but Irak's bill show that bush is certainly wrong !
¤fully loaded satellites will conquer nothing but our minds¤
@ Tally, I read the article. I didn't see the interview from the spindoctor.
Last edited: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 at 1:18:25 PM
On 9/11 I dropped my ice cream cone in the dirt.
I'm still looking to kick someones ass as a result.
Kkb, I wonder if this opinion inflames you.
The 9/11 Observance -- Enough.
I was riding BART early Tuesday morning when the conductor made an announcement. We were going to observe a moment of silence in observance of the 9/11 tragedy.
Hardly anyone showed any reaction, even to the odd idea that we could have even a second of silence with the train's wheels doing their usual screeching. But the woman next to me sighed deeply and rolled her eyes.
New York Times
Remembering 9/11 without the artifical posturing.
"Oh for God's sake,'' she muttered.
Some might think that was disrespectful. But I think I know what she meant.
Enough.
It was entirely appropriate and understandable to mark the anniversary of the terror attack on September 11, 2001. A look back was certainly in order.
But c'mon.
And what did we learn? That it was a confusing, horrible day. That no one understood what was happening until it was too late, and by the time we realized the magnitude of it, thousands were already dead. We saw the unthinkable happen, live, before our eyes.
But I know that. Like all of us, I will remember that morning until the end of my life. We'll all tell the tale of where we were and what we were doing. We have a bond, all of us who were watching that day, and it will never leave us.
But what, exactly, are we reminding ourselves with the endless video tape reruns. Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani said his first thought on the fifth anniversary was, "I can't believe it has been five years.'' Did they think we'd forgotten?
Now this is not to denigrate some excellent work. Our own Patricia Yollin did a lovely job of painting a portrait of New Yorker as they are today, looking back and attempting to move forward. There was some thoughtful work, magazines and writers, giving us a perspective after five years.
And let's just say, New Yorkers get a pass on this. We saw 9/11, but it happened to them. Even if they were miles away, it was a different experience for them. It was too close, too personal. It left an emotional scar.
In addition, just to be clear, the families and friends who lost loved ones have a different perspective. It is entirely possible that they are still suffering from post traumatic stress. Whatever they want to do, whether it is visit the site, relive the morning, or simply spend the day together is fine.
As for the rest of us, we need to stop inserting ourselves in this tragedy. It was a terrible shock, no doubt about it. But if there is one tendency we have in this country it is the idea that we seem to think we can add that extra word, that telling phrase, that will put this all in perspective.
We can't.
We need to remember, to sympathize, and to pipe down. News anchors and politicians should stop over-reaching for dramatic speeches, civic officials should quit stretching to come up with symbolic "moments'' -- a moment of silence at SF Airport was marred when someone forgot to turn off the cheery background music -- and television networks, in particular, should get over themselves.
If there is a word that raises red flags in the post 9/11 world it is "docudrama.'' ABC's, "The Path to 9/11,'' was not only controversial because Democrats said it falsely portrayed events, it was generally considered a lousy piece of work. Again, it was an attempt to tap into those emotions from that day with the aim of leaving us all in tears once again.
I don't think we need that or want it. And a case can be made that the viewers agreed. Although some 13 million watched "Path'' on Sunday night, as many as 23 million watched the NFL football game between the Giants and the Colts.
Were they being disrespectful? No, I think they'd just decided not to let their emotions be manipulated by someone pretending to have a better understanding of how we felt about 9/11.
We don't need reminders. We know how we feel about 9/11. We lived it
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/09/11/MNGM0L3EBG20.DTL
I find it enlightened.
- :[ -
Sorry, but I laughed to this, sounds mean and stupid of me yes I know, but everyone has their reasons.
Please everyone, if you have time, go to google.com, after that select the video tab, and then search for a video with the name "LOOSE CHANGE 2". It made things 10x's clear.
Stan, I amn't a major physicist or anything, but - correct me if I'm wrong - their seem to be a bunch of common-sense flaws in the popularmechanics article.
It seems to be contradicting itself in a few places...
A crashing jet doesn't punch a cartoon-like outline of itself...
Err...
Plane debris sliced through the utility shafts at the North Tower's core
Disclaimer: My own views are that it isn't important who instigated or failed to stop the 9.11 attacks. What I am more worried about is what it is being used to justify. What is most worrying about it, is that since the attacks their has been virtually no discussion of adhering to the rule of International law as others do.
Last edited: Sunday, September 17, 2006 at 5:51:46 AM
@Bloob
I don't understand what you see as "common sense flaws". Are you comparing the pentagon crash into a concrete structure with the WTC impacts? Are you implying that the damage should show similarities? Because I don't see any common sense in this argument.
International law, right...what do you want to see as international law exactly? Do you want every country to have equal decision making power? Do you want a global majority vote before any military involvement? Do you want a majority vote where Iran's or Venezuala's voice counts for as much as US or Italy? Are you happy to see Russia and China with veto power at the security council?
Last edited: Sunday, September 17, 2006 at 7:35:50 AM
I don't see why the material should matter, they were both designed to withstand impacts equal to aeroplane crashes (pentagon was to withstand hurricane forces and the wtc was directly designed to withstand an aeroplane impact)
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International law, right...what do you want to see as international law exactly?
I want to see America respect CURRENT international law, and I want the Uk to stop being the "junior partner" to all this idiotic hypocrisy.
Do you want every country to have equal decision making power?
If you are talking about things like the UN, yes! All the rhetoric is about bringing democracy to the middle east, yet you are to scared to REALLY run things democratically. Their can be no half way house, If you want a democracy that YOU can control then that is NO democracy!
Do you want a global majority vote before any military involvement?
In an ideal world, yes. But it's simply not realistic, what I DO want is for the condemnation of 'the waging of Illegal wars' and those who do wage them to be brought to justice through the international courts and for America to respect the internationally agreed rules of war.
Do you want a majority vote where Iran's or Venezuala's voice counts for as much as US or Italy?
You think your opinions are superior to everyone elses? Why should YOU have any more say than anyone else? Pure arrogance
Are you happy to see Russia and China with veto power at the security council?
And why do you think America has any more right to it than Russia or China?
Last edited: Sunday, September 17, 2006 at 8:25:39 AM
^Because we saved BOTH their butts and haven't been paid back one frickin' dime!
Wheres the love and respect for different cultures. Dont put your veiws on other people
if you dont like the west dont live here and viseor versa
^ I can't work out whether your agreeing with me or telling me I shouldn't live here?
How did we "save" Russia?
World War II. We shipped them billions of dollars worth of arms which helped turn the tide.
Remember, Germany was 60 miles from Moscow at one point during the war.
We also started two fronts (Africa/ Italy and Western Europe) which took a lot of pressure off of the Russians on the Eastern Front.
I am so sick of this American bashing. Everyone is so quick to forget all we have done for the world the past 100 yrs.
I guess it boils down to jealousy.
Admins, please feel free to lock this thread.
Thanks,
KKB
We saved BOTH their butts and haven't been paid back one frickin' dime!
You think the world should "owe" you? We should let America run amok because of some decisive battles in WW2? Should swear allegiance to the American masterplan? You think the people whose lives you are destroying in the middle east, should stop being jealous and be more appreciative of the "big brother" of the world?
You seem to think these small-minded arguments are worthy of the last word in this thread?
Thanks,
Colin aka Bloop...
Last edited: Sunday, September 17, 2006 at 2:05:12 PM
Run amok? Get serious. We've liberated two countries in the past five years.
History will play itself out and you will know by the time you are on your deathbed that the USA is doing the right thing.
We are not letting history reapeat itself.
We will not take a "Chamberlain" type stance with appeasement. It does not work.
Don't you get it Bloop? %)
We also killed over 40,000 people in the last 5 years.
I agree w/ you KKB for the WW2 : USA saved the europe & stop nazis @ Stalingrad if it's the place you were lookin for...
BUT you seemed not to remember what the world made BEFORE this 100last years...in the war of secession...independance...
You seem someone sense & in another way you are too proud about USA. They wont save the world anymore if they continue like this against environment & being so sure of their decisions...like 'doing the right thing'...
¤fully loaded satellites will conquer nothing but our minds¤
We've liberated two countries in the past five years.
We've Occupied two countries, in the past five years for the sake of ongoing economic domination. You think you're doing the people of the middle east a favour? Ignoring international law which is designed to protect us all to get control of the oil into western hands?
Economic domination? What are you smoking?
There is nothing economically to gain from Afghanistan.
We are pumping BILLIONS of US dollars into Iraq to rebuild the infrastructure.
Iraq is pumping a fraction of the oil it is capable of producing.
What the US would like to accomplish is to develope some stable democracies in the Middle East to give these peoplea taste of what it is like to enjoy FREEDOM.
In turn, they will be more likely to enjoy their simple lives and eliminate any hostility they hold towards us and their neighbors. Maybe they can realize that life doesn't suck.
In turn, they will be more likely to enjoy their simple lives and eliminate any hostility they hold towards us and their neighbors. Maybe they can realize that life doesn't suck.
I'm waiting for this, it seems that "they" are more into blowing themselves up since we invaded.
What the US would like to accomplish is to develope some stable democracies in the Middle East to give these peoplea taste of what it is like to enjoy FREEDOM.
Hmm, and what happens when "they" elect someone hostile to the U.S.? Will we try to "liberate" some people again by toppling another government? Besides, it doesn't make much sense to be talking about freedom while our own government strips away our freedoms.
EDIT: Oh yeah, and this thread is about 9/11. Why are we even talking about Iraq when is has nothing to do with 9/11?
Last edited: Monday, September 18, 2006 at 4:23:52 PM
Iraq is pumping a fraction of the oil it is capable of producing.
Kkb, that is a non-argument
Nothing to do with PUMPING oil, it's to do with control of the oil. An attempt to strangle the rest of the world and have the ability to set oil prices to undermine OPEC (where it's most suitable for the US of A to get its oil), as, let's face it, American oil IS going to come from latin america.
There is nothing economically to gain from Afghanistan.
No, not directly, but it's part of a plan to re-order the middle east to achieve ^
Why are we even talking about Iraq when is has nothing to do with 9/11?
Because, 9/11 was used as justification for Iraq, up until the point where people realised Iraq was nothing to do with it, hence the rhetoric changing to "liberation".
Last edited: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 at 12:12:40 PM
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Please remember..... :o