Check this out.
The right wing is a total disaster, and the fur has officially frapped the fan.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/10/11/olbermann-exclusive-dissecting-new-book-tempting-faith/

Last edited: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 at 9:54:26 PM

So politics drives politics - what else is new? I personally find the fact that the white house hasn't fallen into religious fundamentalism reassuring.

Whats a sweater?

Yarn

Check out the cover of the 10/18 Time magazine...

RAB SMASH!!!

Actually, I've been suspecting this for some time (unfortunately, not IN time, but nonetheless). I've just been going over what we've really achieved that was on *my* personal agenda and I haven't seen much. In the meantime, I'm seeing a lot that I don't like at all, which in a nutshell, is our gradual slide into a police state.

So rab, what say you: will the religious right continue to support the republicans in november and '08?

O.t.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCo8cQd6Gdc&eurl=

(As if I knew)

Guess it depends. They may just hang back in November and not go to the polls. In '08 it will depend on who's running for president since we'll be looking at a whole new administration. But you have to remember, even if they're upset with the Republicans they may see them as the lesser of two evils. I suppose it would be interesting if an good, solid independant/3rd party ran for office that took the best of both parties and really had something to offer.

Personally, I'm about ready to vote the ticket in favor of the Dems in Nov just to see if they can make an improvement by '08. Not only that, I might even support a minority or a woman for president just to really mix things up. I think we need to change a lot of things.

Holy...

Seriously... Stop teasing us Rabby. Not nice.

Last edited: Thursday, October 12, 2006 at 2:18:22 PM

^ Heh. Rockin' the world one ape at a time. ;)

One thing I forgot to mention. It wouldn't kill the Dems to pick up on the morality issue a little. If they could adopt the Rabban-Stinkfingers legislation concerning abortion, they'd be in business. "S.1776" basically secures women's choice for an abortion, but in a measured, responsible manner, not on demand and not as birth control. Early abortions are preferred. RU-486 is plentiful. Partial-birth is out as well as third tri-mester abortions (except for medical emergencies). Parental notification for minors is in. Also, adoptions are a lot easier and cheaper with a lot fewer restrictions. (If I've got that wrong, I'm sure the senator from California will correct me.)

If the Dems could offer a "feel good" stance on moral issues that the Religious Right could live with, they'd pick up a lot more voters.

Good link up there, Tally. I've suspected as much for a while now.

I even stopped attending a church when I started to feel like the spawn of Satan because I'm a member of the National Education Association. Everything was blamed on the "secular humanist education system", which is a nice myth to use to stir people up and manipulate them.

The right wingers are in churches, for sure, but I think there is a backlash happening. Olberman's book could really tip things for the moderate Christian group and even some farther right who aren't seeing what they need to see. Many need to see a more reasoned approach to issues. Black and white isn't going to cut it.

I'd support a measure like the one Rabban put up there ^. It has a little something for everyone, and makes good sense. We need to start using political power differently. We need to start building support across different groups, not polarize around divisive issues. Nothing important will happen (in a positive sense) until that becomes the way politicians do their work. I'm seeing attempts to present that approach by some Republican candidates who are working to distance themselves from Bush, but doubt the sincerity of their messages.

Rabbit: :)
hear hear LGM.

Regarding the office of faith based initiatives as a campaign arm of the GOP...how many laws does that break? And regarding religious leaders campaigning and asking their flock to vote GOP...i'm sure the IRS would find that irregular...and a violation of the tax free status churches enjoy.

Regarding the uberconservative leaders in bed (embedded?) with the GOP...i believe laggy would have an interesting kierkegaard reflection on that.

Regarding the unity many of you up ^ there profess to want to establish: how now? Rally around the democrats? They have become schizophrenic...i think because they feel that their old message of populous based democracy won't play with you any more. They are still smarting from the beating reagan gave em, and then the newtser...they question whether appealing to your sense of civic mindedness, concern for the old and weak, concern for the environment, commitment to education and the future of your children, and commitment to the middle class still has resonance. They have noticed that when the GOP pandered to your sense of entitlement, and played on your fear of gays and foreigners, not to mention fear of terrorism, that you went for it. When they told you that you were all players in a party of players, you bit.

If we are going to find unity, we need to find what it is that unifies us. It is important to know what it is you think you want. It is critical in fact that you get that right, or else we can't begin on the project of restoring unity. What do you, we, really want our country to be, do, stand for?

Personally, I think those of us in the middle 67%, the big lump on the bell curve (eek fo fo) in the middle have most of the important things in common. If we could figure that out, we'd get a government to represent our interests...not pander to our hopes and fears while fattening themselves at our expense.

I have little pride in the current democrats. Perhaps they will find their courage again. The GOP is rotten to the core, of this I'm certain. It aint Goldwater's party anymore.

Part two. Consume.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/10/12/tempting-faith-christian-conservatives-duped-by-bushco-part-ii/

Don't know if any of you got a chance to see lou dobbs on the daily show, but he said what I said, only much better. I'm liking that guy.

Edit: I found the clip on youtube: http://youtube.com/watch?v=kHZZXA7YC-U

Last edited: Thursday, October 12, 2006 at 9:27:06 PM

Concur. His stance on the starving middle class is right on. That is my opinion.

Listen to Barack.

Last edited: Friday, October 13, 2006 at 3:48:58 AM

I have little pride in barack...regardless of what he says or promises, he's delivered very little so far...seems more interested in not attracting the GOP wrath. I believe it is time to man up and confront the GOP, and status quo dems (hillary, biden) with a clear pro-middle class platform.

Sayeth stan. That is a good point. At least they aren't crazy enough to actually do anything pat robertson et al wants them to do...despite the fact that they owe the robertson's of the world for delivering the wh. They haven't become a theocracy just yet. That is reassuring.

Last edited: Friday, October 13, 2006 at 11:17:20 AM

...they cut-off this lou dobbs guy the minute he started to talk of what he seen to be the solutions....!?!?! Is all your tv like that?

Stinks, I think he plays it wisely. The senate is the place where good candidates go and die. Another DNC type moment for him, and his ship sails, I say.

I don't think pastors are telling the flock to vote for the GOP since they're very aware of the tax implications. They discuss the issues and sometimes help with voter registration. If the issues happen to be the position of the GOP, then they get the vote.

As far as evangelical leaders being embedded with the GOP, I think the book bears out there were lied to and used just as much as everyone. Part 2 pointed out the Billy Graham (hallalujah!) was shrewd enough to question his role in the Nixon administration to make sure he wasn't being used. So perhaps George's love for Jesus made us trust him too much. In retrospect, if we can't trust every televangelist, we surely can't trust every politician.

Now, I agree that I can't just go out and start voting for Democrats. That would be the easy way out, but you're right, they haven't been that great either. Obama sounds good and I saw another guy on C-span that had some good ideas too. I'm just going to have to figure out who's running around here and vote for people.

Lou Dobb's had a lot of good ideas and I wish the ever clever and funny Jon Stewart had more time for him. Makes me want to spend the extra cash to get extended cable, but $50/mo to watch TV seems like a lot. I'd like to see that middle class revolution he was talking about, starting with cutting into those huge corporate profits.

Just a thought, perhaps if the media started covering news that really had a impact on the middle class, they might be better informed rather than always running the sort of tabloid junk that doesn't mean anything. I'd also spend less time on car bombings wherever they occur since I think we're starting to get used to them and focus on how things are being mismanaged, underfunded and the like. If we knew more about how things were affecting us personally, we'd do more to see things made right.

Ho, I know, that's the conventional wisdom of the dems.
but this is a time that people on both sides are looking for someone...something. Its a time for courage right now, not politics as usual. Barrack needs to come out and make a stand and take the GOP smear merchants head on. The timing is right...people have learned a lot about the GOP bullshit attacks and sound bites. They've lost their resonance because people are figuring out the the GOP, despite what they say, care very little about the real issues. Its too bad it takes a sex scandal to break the camel's back. There were so many other obvious examples on more substantive issues.

Bloop: that is the format of the Daily show. Its a political satire show, and all the guests get treated the same. As a spectator, you are glad when their guy gets cut off and trivialized, mocked, made fun of. When someone like dobbs comes on, even though daily is sympathetic to their argument he has to continue to be satirical. You are left wanting more....

However, it does expose the audience to different ideas...and dobbs has a nightly show on CNN. I'm not sure about everything he says/stands for, but his concern for the plight of the working/and middle class (not the same thing) and his belief that the state of the country is tied to our fate, I share.