So, should Katherine and Caryn git hitched?

LOL

Rabby, what could have POSSIBLY caused you to start a thread like this, you goofball..... :)

Katherine

Last edited: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 at 5:13:03 PM

LOL! How long has it been now TG? 5 months or more, right? How does Caryn feel about the issue? :)

Just wondering if the gang thinks the community's most unattainable bachelorette should dive into wedded bliss one more time.

_{I'm hoping this is a tactful way to start a discussion on one of those topics.}

Last edited: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 at 5:25:13 PM

So, which bride will be given away?

2 garter-belt tosses. Double the pleasure!

- BombJames Bomb

And here I thought TG and Bolo were destined for each other! XD

-Rx

LOL,

There are THOSE questions, such as....

-----Who wears the pants in the family?

Personally I think Caryn's legs are better than mine so I certainly don't want her to wear the pants!

The "Pants" question is another way of saying, who is the Husband? Who is the dominant partner? We've decided that I am the dominant one. Although Caryn is incredibly strong and strong willed, I am the technophile, I am the gear-head that likes to fix things. I am the control freak.

Caryn and I have already talked about marriage... Partially in the context of our government denying us the right to marry..... It is too early in our relationship for us to consider marriage, but we are both giving it the green light at this point.

Speaking of green lights, I had better go get my kids.

I will be interested to see where this thread goes.... Hopefully it will be nice.

Katherine the Lipstick Lesbian

From the posts above I'm guessing TG would carry Caryn over the threshold.

Also, shouldn't it be wedding BELLES? :)

Last edited: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 at 7:16:23 PM

We are skirting the issue?

LOL, maybe this topic doesn't have any legs?

Well, I thought it would lead into the gay marriage debate and you mentioned it in passing, but I didn't want to give my take on it until someone else said something about it.

So, what's the word?

Marketers have known for years the "wife" influences all household decisions, from which laundry detergent to choose to which vehicle to buy.

"Wearing the pants" is just an illusion.

TG SEND ME BACK ASAP THE ENGAGEMENT DIAMOND RING AND THE MONEY I GAVE YOU! WAAAaaaaaaaaaAAAA! XO

Thankfully, Jessica lets me wear pants while I do laundry, cook dinner, and do the dishes. :P

Gotta love this group. The question isn't whether we find TankGirl and Caryn's marriage to be acceptable, the question is who will be BOSS! Yes, we men do fit the stereotype quite nicely on some things. ;P

Amongst my friends, I find that almost nobody has a problem with gay marriages (I do live in the Bay Area after all), but the discussion becomes quickly heated when you bring children into the family. That was touched on in a previous thread, I believe. I'm all for adoption, or if the kids were already in the family like TG's. However, the thought of giving birth to a child where the person responsible for the other half of the genetic makeup was never in the picture is a tad disturbing.

- BombJames Bomb

Rabban, didn't you get enough of a debate about gay marriage the last time around? If not, just find that thread and bump it back to the top. Just about everything that could be said about gay marriage was covered there... And then some. ;)

@Hugo, I already sold the ring and spent the money on exotic oils for Caryn and myself.

@James,

FWIW: I want to see you do the laundry, cook dinner, and do dishes while wearing hot pants and maybe some nice platform shoes, and a tight little top that shows off your belly...... (lol)

I find your last statement a bit contradictory, Adoption means NEITHER of the responsible people related to the genetic makeup of the kid is in the picture.... Is that disturbing to you too then?

Children in a family with gay parents is very complicated. It is like walking through a minefield at all times and I work very hard to make sure my sons have proper male influences as well as the right perspective about who Caryn and I are as a couple. Tough line to walk, very tough. As my six year old becomes more aware of the world around him, he is asking some pretty good questions about why he does not have a dad living at home. Of course, these are the same questions that any divorced mother has to endure. More than anything though, I try to protect my sons from the reality of their deadbeat father who consistently disappoints them. Now THERE is a strange situation, I am protecting my sons from finding out what an ass their father is because they cherish him so much. That is going to be an awful moment when my oldest son finally realizes that his dad is a bottomfeeder... It will be VERY sad.

On a more festive note, I just took my six year old to Toys R Us to buy him his first baseball glove. What a hoot. Luckily for me I was in Women's softball leagues for a lot of years and I love to play baseball because I think he will be a little-league player. He seems to love it and he thinks it is funny that I can throw a baseball so well.

Oops, I went off on a few branches... Time to go now....

Katherine

Go TG!

As far as my take on Gay marrage... I'm all for it! If we have to suffer, then so should they! XD

Ack!! Damn, that's a frightening image ;) No offense James! LOL! :P

@TG- You sound like you're doing quite well for being a single mom of 2 in a gay relationship.

LOL OM. I realize you are giving me a compliment in there, but that is a funny sentence.

Ya know, the funny part of the whole thing is, I don't think of myself as being a gay person any more than you spend time thinking of yourself being a hetero person. I only "realize" that I am gay when I am in this forum, or when I am in places that are clearly intolerant... Mostly I just think of myself as a person who is lucky to be in love with someone.... Hopefully some day society will catch up with that too, but I am not holding my breath on that.

@TG

I think you're right about society's intolerance of gay relationships, even in this supposed new enlightened age. Look at all the commotion that was caused with that whole "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" experiment in the military! (JB can comment on that one). Also, there's an annual war it seems whenever homosexuals try to march in a parade somewhere.

While there has been ever increasing acceptance overall by society of homosexual relationships, it is still extremely slow in progression. At its current rate, openly gay relationships will become widely accepted by the turn of the next century. While it is nothing like it was in the 1940s and 1950s (remember how Rock Hudson had to keep his sexuality totally hidden along with many other celebs?), it still has a long way to go.

A good barometer of societal acceptance of anything once considered taboo is how it treats the subject in its entertainment outlets (TV, movies, music, books, etc.).

For example, when African Americans finally started to break down the racial barriers, the entertainment industry finally started portraying them in a positive light.

Sidney Portier was one of the first black men to gain national acceptance and stardom with his powerful performances in films like "Lillies of the Field", "To Sir, with Love", "In the heat of the Night" and my personal favorite "A Raisin in the Sun". Then Bill Cosby and Richard Pryor broke new ground on Television when they conquered that medium. The gradual improvement in the way that African Americans were treated in entertainment seemed to mirror the progress their cause for acceptance was making in the real world. Now that doesn't mean that racism has been vanquished. Not in the least, but again, things are far better today than they ever were.

As for the way the homosexual community is being portrayed in the entertainment industry today, there seems to be a double standard when it comes to gay men and lesbians. I think gay men are getting the much better deal here and it seems to reflect society's attitude towards gay men and lesbians. I think lesbians are being discriminated against far more then gay men and portrayed far worse in general than gay men in movies, TV and books.

For instance, there are 10 times more examples of positive portrayals of gay men in entertainment than there are for lesbians. Think about it. Remember what happened to Ellen when she decided to come out of the closet during the peak of her then hit TV show? She was lamb basted and crucified. The same with Rosie O'Donell when she "came clean". However, some of the biggest shows spotlight gay men, "Will & Grace", "Six Feet Under", etc. As for movies, remember how cute and lovable everyone thought Julia Roberts' gay friend was (Ruppert Everett) in "My Best Friend's Wedding"? How about the huge success for other gay themed movies, "The Bird Cage", "pricilla queen of the jungle", etc. Conversely, how many movies or TV shows can you list that portrayed lesbians in a positive light?

I can think of some decent ones like "Chasing Amy", but even that one merely used lesbianism for sheer shock value and titilation.

Anyway...you've come a long way sista...but there's still a long road to travel. Just keep following your heart.

@TG- sorry if my statement offended you in any way. I was simply stating that given society's still present prejudices against gay marriages in conjunction with raising children, that you obviously have your act together, and are making sure your 2 boys will grow up to be well rounded individuals.

I admire that, because you have to seek out male influences for your sons, unlike in hetero relationships where in most cases it's simply there (provided the father sticks around). However, I almost think you have it better, because you can choose which men are to provide male figures for your boys. It's unfortunate that so many women get into horrible relationships where the male figure becomes abusive, and that is what the boys in the family see and learn, thereby keeping the ugly cycle of abuse alive.

Again, you know that I admire your strength around all this.

@OM, no no no, you never offended me. I really did think that was just a funny sounding sentence. Made me laugh... Think about it.

[edit... Crap OM, I just reread my reply to you, I can see why you would think I was offended... Lol.... Sorry bout that, no offense taken at all :)

It reminded me of a movie, I forget the name, but it was a pretty funny and odd movie. At one point, the gay son had died and at the funeral, the macho and estranged father broke down at and shouted a tearful "I love my dead gay son!!!". That always cracks me up... Your sentence reminded me of that.

Pais and OM, thanks for the compliments and the nice thoughts.

I have said many times (much to the chagrin of some in this community:) that my sons have more positive male influences than most hetero-parented kids that I have ever seen. I am very lucky to have a close-knit group of friends. I don't know what I would do without em.

Anyway, pais, regarding lesbians not getting equal treatment in the media.... That is an interesting commentary.... I never noticed or thought about it.... Hmmmm..... I imagine that an interesting double standard is at work here... Lesbian oriented main characters on a tv show would be considered too sexual or exploitive... A station broadcasting a lesbian show would be criticized as broadcasting something akin to smut for ratings..... Gay men are not considered a sexually explosive on screen, but a show about lesbians would be considered a sex show. There definitely is a standard here, but I think it is based on old-school social mores.

Whaddya think?

Last edited: Thursday, June 24, 2004 at 1:37:42 AM

Well, if you add pornography to the scene, then there are plenty of gay women shown in a positive light. :P Joking aside, Paisano makes an excellent point that I hadn't noticed before.

@TG: Let me clarify on the children thing. The difference is wether the child has already been brought into the world or not. Regardless of what is right or wrong, it is difficult for a child to grow in up in world without ever knowing his Mom or Dad, and it makes it even more difficult if he has an unusual family (10-year-olds can be downright cruel to the "different" kids). Therefore, I wonder if a gay couple have considered what their child will go through when they consider artificial insemination. Seriously, imagine having NO idea about the other half of your genetic makeup.

However, with adoption, the deed has already been done and can-not be undone. Wether it was by tragic death or desertion, the kid is now alone and needs a family. In these cases, I think same-sex family can have a lot to offer to better a bad situation.

My friends seem to be on both sides of the extreme. Most of my military friends have issues with same-sex parents raising kids at all. Another group of my friends say there should be no distinction on birth-rights of same-sex marriages versus heterosexual marriages.

Personally, I don't want the government diving in again to dictate who can have kids. <shudder> I just want same-sex partners to understand that the world is still adjusting, and that a child born in such a family may have difficult times ahead. Why not help a child who already has been dealt a tough blow from life and adopt instead for now?

- BombJames Bomb

@TG,

Love shoudn't have barriers. I am glad that you have found true love, and I am glad that you proudly stand for what you believe. Last night I was on the phone to a close friend who is in a same sex relationship. They are seeking to have children, problem is with two girls it is a hard task. They are considering the following option, which I thought was rather neat - argh can't believe I used that word - I think they used it a lot in Leave it to Beaver.

Take Care,

Lauryn^TM

Ill keep my comments to myself....im just too in favor of guys getting laid

B

Well, just to put my 2 cents in...

I'm not really sure about gay marriage.

While you all know I don't think being gay is ok, I'm not sure banning them from marriage is the way to go either. I know a lot of Christian organizations are getting behind the FMA, but I'm not sure that's the focus we should have. As you know, I think the Bible teaches that gay relationships are a sin, but it says the same thing concerning divorcees getting remarried as well (hear what I'm saying TG) and no one's passing legislation to stop those marriages. So, this may be a case where the Church is fighting the wrong battle. While I think it's still a moral issue, making someone obey it really doesn't accomplish much in the heart. If Christians want to change the culture, they need to change hearts and minds, not the law. Besides, banning gay marriages doesn't end gay relationships. They're going to stay together regardless (if they feel it's the real deal), so why not give them the legal bond as well? I would rather see gays in a stable relationship anyway. As far as children and such, I think they'd do better in a hetero relationship with a mom and dad, but those relationships aren't guaranteed either. I guess two mom's are better than one single mom and I'd rather have children adopted by my two dads than have them end up in a trash can somewhere.

And like Stealth said, we should all suffer together. ;)

Lauryn-

Discrimination!!!! They're going to give female gay couples the ability to have children, but not male gay couples!!!

Where's the ASPCA? Err - AARP? NCAA. Dammit, ACLU! That's it.

TMO - tongue firmly in cheek, folks. This is a joke. Honest.

PS - there was a show with a lesbian gay couple, remember Ellen? Never watched it myself (I don't watch sitcoms), but evidently it was funny until it got political.

@Master TMO

Yes, I mentioned Ellen. It was one of the funniest shows on TV. Unfortunately, when she came out and got serious about the subject of lesbianism, then the humor seemed to go out the window (at least in middle america anyway). The subject matter was and is too much to swallow for most Americans, especially at prime time. However, if the writers did a better job (and stuck to being funny--and you can be witty, humorous AND still tackle the subject matter in a respectful manner), then the show could have remained successful and on the air.

Instead, they went for the jugular and America (mostly sponsors reacting to potential boycots and revenue loss!) gasped! Thus the death of Ellen's show and repeated with Rosie (who didn't have to do the 180 degree turn from sweet Queen of Nice to short-haired, angry dyke!).

Rosie could have used her massive successul as the number one TV talk show host (she had won 5 straight emmies over Oprah and everyone else!) as a powerful platform for the lesbian and Gay communities. She had middle america at her feet. They loved her and she could have shown them that Lesbians are nothing to fear...that they can be funny, sweet, normal folk! Instead, she went berzerko and dropped the ball.

By the way, isn't there a show with the girl from Saved by the Bell or Flashdance called "The L Word" that features lesbian?

Don't know what happened to it. I also recall a few other big time hit shows having lesbian threads in it: FRIENDS had Ross' ex-wife turn into a lesbian (sort of like turning into the wolfman, huh?) and I think Paul Riser's sister on MAD ABOUT YOU became a lesbian too (I believe the same actress was the lesbian lover on Friends!). Still, those were merely added for shock value and supposed to be hilarious. "Can you believe it?! My wife became a lesbian!" and we're supposed to chuckle and slap our knee with insane laughter. Oy vay.

Last edited: Thursday, June 24, 2004 at 12:20:54 PM